Vic Fontaine's Sentience

[Dingo]

Though never explicitly mentioned in canon or in even fanfiction or apocrypha, do you think that in the DS9 Relaunch that Vic Fontaine will ever gain sentience?

The Voyager EMH would be a perfect example of a sentient hologram in my book, and Vic seems to have a roughly similar (if not more advanced) holographic matrix, his heuristic and fully interactive programming, and definite awareness of his holographic nature. I would definitely say Vic Fontaine qualifies as a sentient hologram if not a unique hologram.

Come to think of it, does anyone believe that Vic Fontaine and Voyager's Doctor represent an evolution in holographic intelligence and a hopeful advance for the rights of photonic beings? I just wonder what the ramifications of the Doctor's definite sentience and Vic Fontaine's likely sentience would be across the quadrant?

 

[shanejayell]

Vic appears to fit the qualifications for sentience, as far as Starfleet goes.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Measure_Of_A_Man_(episode)

"Picard maneuvers Maddox into conceding that Data fulfills most of the cyberneticist's own criteria for sentience – intelligence and self-awareness – and dramatically coerces the scientist into admission that the remaining criterion, consciousness, is too nebulous a concept to precisely determine whether the android is in possession of it or not."

Vic is clearly intelligent as well as aware of himself as a hologram. The only question is, is he possessed of consciousness?

 

[Dingo]

I would say so. For instance is aware of efforts to open his program or tamper with it (Nog's tampering in It's Only a Paper Moon readily comes to mind).

 

[nx1701g]

I had always assumed that he was sentient. He wasn't like the other holograms.

 

[Aquehonga]

The Doctor, Vic & don't forget Moriarty & girlfriend?/wife?, represent milestones in holographic evolution. That milestone being, having consciousness.

They are to holograms what the Soong Androids are to androids & robotics. But being holograms, are more advanced, evolved than Data, Lore, Data's daughter & B4. Maybe At least on the same level anyway.

Maybe the Bynar-enhanced Minuet was also, or could've become, conscious

 

[Dingo]

On that note, if the mobile emitter were ever to become mass produced and sentient holograms able to utilize them, I assume that this would make for a very interesting change for 24th Century Society.

Perhaps the mobile emitter used by the Doctor in Voyager is due to a society that has recognized the sentience of some holograms?

 

[Aquehonga]

Perhaps the mobile emitter used by the Doctor in Voyager is due to a society that has recognized the sentience of some holograms?

That's a good point.

After V'GER's return, I wonder if a mobile emitter was ever built for Vic?

 

[The Grim Ghost]

In the DS9 books I think they explain Vic by saying he had merged with some sort of photonic lifeform to explain his sentience.

Personally, I don't really like that idea. I think the longer a hologram is left on (assuming that it's creator was VERY skilled and allowed it enough room to grow) the greater the chance for REAL sentience rather than simulated sentience.

With the Doctor on Voyager, he was left on for a long time, allowed to modify his own program and was often merged with different alien techs as well as exposure to the future tech of the mobile emitter. I think that explains his eventual sentience.

As for giving Vic a mobile emitter, even if they could (I imagine it would have to be much larger than Doc's) would Vic even want it? He seems to be very tied into his environment and I'm not sure he would want to leave it. Vic mentions a few times that the Vegas environment is very real to him, even though he knows it is all holographic.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In the DS9 books I think they explain Vic by saying he had merged with some sort of photonic lifeform to explain his sentience.

No, they don't do that. He's still "just" a hologram.

 

[Navaros]

Though never explicitly mentioned in canon

Disagree with this statement.

It is mentioned in canon that Vic has free will and therefore sentience in the scene were O'Brien tells Nog he can shut himself off and O'Brien says "I'm not a philosopher".

Vic can not ever 'gain' sentience because he already has it.

 

[Praetor]

Didn't Bashir once say that that holoprogrammer friend of his tended to put something 'extra' in his programs? Maybe in Vic, that was sentience, or at least a capacity to develop it.

 

[Dingo]

Didn't Bashir once say that that holoprogrammer friend of his tended to put something 'extra' in his programs? Maybe in Vic, that was sentience, or at least a capacity to develop it.

Yes, I remember almost exactly that phrase was used in the episode His Way, when Vic Fontaine first appeared.

At any rate, Vic is in his own words: "Smarter than the average bear." And the argument could definitely be made as to his sentience. I can to imagine Vic and Voyager's EMH crossing paths one day...

 

[Praetor]

I could almost see Vic not wanting full sentience though. He seemed happy where he was, as he was.

In 'The Matrix,' he would be the guy that took the other pill.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In 'The Matrix,' he would be the guy that took the other pill.

So would I...

And I just had a thought about the *mirror* Vic (who was human and not a hologram). It seemed odd that this Vic could have turned out that way. But what if that wasn't mirror Vic after all? Maybe it was Felix.

In the real universe, Felix could have modelled Vic's physical appearance on *himself*, couldn't he?

 

[Dingo]

In the real universe, Felix could have modelled Vic's physical appearance on *himself*, couldn't he?

That is definitely conceivable. I never even imagined that possibility.

Perhaps what Felix is to Vic Fontaine, Dr. Zimmerman is to the EMH MK I?

 

[Praetor]

That's a pretty cool idea.

 

[Timo]

Or perhaps Vic Fontaine (in our universe, and in the mirror one) is a real person who would be seething in anger if he found out that Felix had done a likeness on him?

For all we know, Felix is pushing the 24th century equivalent of porn or gore (socially unacceptable and perhaps illegal but still essentially harmless entertainment) for the sheer nerdish excitement, and Bashir is gobbing it up for the same reason. Holoartists might be dime in a dozen, but holoartists who do illegal likenesses are cool guys Bashir likes to hang around with...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Or perhaps Vic Fontaine (in our universe, and in the mirror one) is a real person who would be seething in anger if he found out that Felix had done a likeness on him?

I don't think so. It is probably very common, and legal, for people to be simulated in the holodecks without the original's knowledge. (How could you prevent that from happening, after all?)

I think it's more likely that Felix modelled Vic's appearance after himself. Most Trek characters who are into robotics do it that way (i.e. Noonien Soong) and the same with holograms (Lewis Zimmerman). It's probably just *easier* to create a holo-character based on your own appearance. Saves the trouble of having to come up with a new look.

 

[Praetor]

Wasn't there some guy in one of the Mirror eps (I'm thinking 'Emperor's New Cloak) that looked like holo-Vic but was a real person?

 

[Dingo]

You're right, there was and he and Julian Bashir hated each other. Assuming Vic was modeled on Felix and Felix and Julian were buddies, in the Mirror Universe, then it would be plausible that the two would hate each other.