Vampires - Anyone Else Not Get the Sex Appeal?
- Thread starter Lapis Exilis
- Start date
Rii
Rear Admiral
Of course BtVS is often lauded by feminists and Twilight isn't. BtVS changed the rules, but the rules have to be there to be changed. Vampires, and the female slaying thereof, were the basic backdrop against which Whedon's message of female empowerment was delivered.
Buffy's lauded by feminists because the men in it are all wimps, losers or monsters (or they just switch randomly between all three like Angel, Spike and Wesley) and the solution to the final Big Bad (freeing female "power" from the rules set by a group of men) was about as subtle as a sledgehammer in the face.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
It's the power they have over the game and people's lives. Umpires are very sexy.
*This is the sports and fitness forum, right?*
*This is the sports and fitness forum, right?*
I asked a friend this and she said that the "element of danger" is a big draw as well. Coupled with a lot of what is said above, I can understand the appeal on an intellectual level. But for me, the whole "The vampire will try to kill me and suck me dry" part kind of kills it. 
I just want to be around when one teenage girl picks up the recent DVD re-issue of Near Dark based on the Twilight-ish new cover image...
THEN see her reaction after watching the movie, since it's pretty much the anti-Twilight.
THEN see her reaction after watching the movie, since it's pretty much the anti-Twilight.
I just want to be around when one teenage girl picks up the recent DVD re-issue of Near Dark based on the Twilight-ish new cover image...
THEN see her reaction after watching the movie, since it's pretty much the anti-Twilight.
See what you do is take this, make up a bunch of fake Twilight DVDs and replace a bunch of DVD rentals <eg> That or sell them over Ebay.
Well, I got to admit it. I've been a vampire fangirl since I saw Interview with the Vampire when I was 16 (October 2003).
And then in the summer of 2004 I got an addiction to BtVS/AtS.
First off, Angel, Wesley and Spike are NOT weak male characters. Hardly. Toss in Lindsey, Holtz, Giles and Connor to round out my favorite males on those shows. Points to the Mayor, Warren and the Master for that matter. And Jonathan for woobie appeal.
And vampires have been appealing to women since the days of Dracula. Béla Lugosi played on the sex appeal factor specifically when doing his version of a vampire. He approached it that way on purpose to have that exact effect on the female audience.
The Whedon vampires manage to be both monstrous and sexy at the same time. Well, the stake fodder is mostly repugnant and non-human, but the ones played by absolutely gorgeous men like David Boreanaz and James Marsters come through even the worst of the latex prosthetics and fangs. Julie Benz and Juliet Landau have that same extra something, even with the makeup. David Boreanaz, in particular, managed to retain his handsome looks even behind the makeup. Julie Landau's makeup only added to her Goth chick appeal.
Juliet Landau's Drusilla is practically the insane vampire version of Morticia Addams (or a reverse Claudia--a child in a woman's body instead of the reverse) and Julie Benz plays Darla like a wry seductress dowager figure and a whore who wants to be loved (and of course, Angelus is the vampire who can't love). The Fanged Four of the Whedonverse definitely has its roots in Anne Rice (Angelus = IwtV Lestat, Angel = Louis, Spike = retcon Lestat, Drusilla = Claudia in reverse and Darla = Gabrielle, the seductress mother figure).
Honest to God, the hottest kiss in the series is probably Buffy kissing Angel in vamp-face at the ice rink. Not to mention two of the other hottest Bangel scenes were the Amends dream (the fangs come out) and Graduation Day, pt. 2's drinking scene. They certainly played upon the erotic nature of it.
I'd imagine that there's an element of big, strong male with both sensitivity and the ability to kick all kinds of ass is another reason male vampires appeal so much to women. Plus there's that whole penetration/blood thing that women relate to so much.
Twilight, however, is pure crap. Ditto with Queen of the Damned. And Moonlight! AWFUL! There's a certain kind of acting that some of the more recent vampire movies have been doing where they try to make them more animalistic, but they just end up looking silly and retarded.
BtVS/AtS always played it as pretty traditional acting with vampires whose mannerisms are mostly human with selective use of the bumpy foreheads and lion growls. Also, BtVS/AtS had well-rounded personalities that weren't all one-note. The sense of humor, DB being the big, goofy jock he is and the EPIC!-style dramatic acting really helped separate it from just being fugly little boys with no balls and no personality ( ::cough:: Edward ::cough:: ). Casting MEN who looked like MEN was a big plus.
But yeah, I think you'll notice that women like the bad boy image with the good guy inside. Or the unattainable distant or exotic guy that you have to work at a little bit over the attainable average Joe. Spock over Kirk. Han over Luke. Angel and Spike over Xander. See a pattern here?
And then in the summer of 2004 I got an addiction to BtVS/AtS.
First off, Angel, Wesley and Spike are NOT weak male characters. Hardly. Toss in Lindsey, Holtz, Giles and Connor to round out my favorite males on those shows. Points to the Mayor, Warren and the Master for that matter. And Jonathan for woobie appeal.
And vampires have been appealing to women since the days of Dracula. Béla Lugosi played on the sex appeal factor specifically when doing his version of a vampire. He approached it that way on purpose to have that exact effect on the female audience.
The Whedon vampires manage to be both monstrous and sexy at the same time. Well, the stake fodder is mostly repugnant and non-human, but the ones played by absolutely gorgeous men like David Boreanaz and James Marsters come through even the worst of the latex prosthetics and fangs. Julie Benz and Juliet Landau have that same extra something, even with the makeup. David Boreanaz, in particular, managed to retain his handsome looks even behind the makeup. Julie Landau's makeup only added to her Goth chick appeal.
Juliet Landau's Drusilla is practically the insane vampire version of Morticia Addams (or a reverse Claudia--a child in a woman's body instead of the reverse) and Julie Benz plays Darla like a wry seductress dowager figure and a whore who wants to be loved (and of course, Angelus is the vampire who can't love). The Fanged Four of the Whedonverse definitely has its roots in Anne Rice (Angelus = IwtV Lestat, Angel = Louis, Spike = retcon Lestat, Drusilla = Claudia in reverse and Darla = Gabrielle, the seductress mother figure).
Honest to God, the hottest kiss in the series is probably Buffy kissing Angel in vamp-face at the ice rink. Not to mention two of the other hottest Bangel scenes were the Amends dream (the fangs come out) and Graduation Day, pt. 2's drinking scene. They certainly played upon the erotic nature of it.
I'd imagine that there's an element of big, strong male with both sensitivity and the ability to kick all kinds of ass is another reason male vampires appeal so much to women. Plus there's that whole penetration/blood thing that women relate to so much.
Twilight, however, is pure crap. Ditto with Queen of the Damned. And Moonlight! AWFUL! There's a certain kind of acting that some of the more recent vampire movies have been doing where they try to make them more animalistic, but they just end up looking silly and retarded.
BtVS/AtS always played it as pretty traditional acting with vampires whose mannerisms are mostly human with selective use of the bumpy foreheads and lion growls. Also, BtVS/AtS had well-rounded personalities that weren't all one-note. The sense of humor, DB being the big, goofy jock he is and the EPIC!-style dramatic acting really helped separate it from just being fugly little boys with no balls and no personality ( ::cough:: Edward ::cough:: ). Casting MEN who looked like MEN was a big plus.
But yeah, I think you'll notice that women like the bad boy image with the good guy inside. Or the unattainable distant or exotic guy that you have to work at a little bit over the attainable average Joe. Spock over Kirk. Han over Luke. Angel and Spike over Xander. See a pattern here?
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All three of the characters I mentioned switched between being wimps, losers and monsters. You can hardly say, for instance, that season seven Spike was the embodiment of masculinity, now can you ?
Angel - Monster, got a soul and became a wimp. Lost his soul, became a monster. Got his soul back, became a wimp again. Ran away to LA, let Darla and Drusilla kill a bunch of lawyers, thus becoming a monster again. Bought Cordy some new clothes and became a wimp again. Had a son and became a monster again.
Spike - Wimp, got vamped, became a monster though generally pushed around by the others so still a wimp at the same time, got chipped became a wimp again, chip stopped working, tried to become a monster again but went and got his soul back like a loser, so remained a wimp. Then spent the next fourteen million episodes crying and not wearing a shirt in various basements.
Wesley - Nobody paid any attention to him. Routinely got knocked out and beaten up - wimp, crap at his job as a Watcher and got fired. Loser. Met up with Angel, remained a loser and a wimp until suddenly receiving a testicle transplant in season two. Tried to save Angel's son and do the right thing, got kicked out of the group for it - Loser. Got all angry and moody about it, monster.
Lindsey spent half the time crying about his hand, Holtz was a monster, Connor kept going on about his frakking daddy issues, Warren was an would be rapist and a murderer and had to build a robot girlfriend despite having an actual one (i.e. loser), the Mayor and the Master were quite literally monsters and Jonathan used magic to make everyone think he was cool (loser).
This leaves Giles as the only strong, positive male character on your list.
Depends what book you read. The vampire myth is flexible enough to support multiple interpretations. Some vampires are sexy and romantic ("Carmilla," Anne Rice, etcetera). Some are ghoulish and bestial. (I AM LEGEND, the NECROSCOPE novels,etc.)
There's no hard and fast rule on whether vampires should be sexy or not.
Excellent points, but at the same time missing a little something. We are massively repressed - on the one hand. On the other (in response to the repression) we are sex-obsessed and infatuated with titillation. Yes, a national emergency is called if a nipple is shown, yet here on this board avatars of bouncing breasts with only the nipple covered are de rigueur. So, it's not simply that human impulses are denied, rather they are delineated by rather ridiculous rules. Just drive past any set of billboards and there are often extremely sexualized images, twenty feet high. Here's one I passed regularly in Chicago.
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/39434/thumbs/s-BILLBOARD-large.jpg
I think you're on to something in terms of how vampires have been adapted to both male and female sexual/ romantic fantasy. As Rii notes, because they are "dark", strong/ dominating, and engage in forbidden activities, they have become fetishized. Because along with our repressed/sex-obsessed culture, we have developed a fetish for domination that takes away the guilt/ responsiblity for our sexual impulses. Thus guys fantasize about a powerful nymphomaniac woman (who has recently appeared on True Blood - Mary Ann) that cannot be resisted, and women fantasize about a powerful, seductive man that cannot be resisted.
But I still say the dead/blood aspect kills the sexiness for me.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
I don't watch TRUE BLOOD for the sex appeal of vampires. I watch it because it's a well-crafted supernatural Melrose Place with R-rating levels of violence, language and nudity. So far most of the vamps on the show are repulsive, embodying the worst aspects of the humanity they claim to no longer possess. (Bill and Eddie seem okay...not sure about Jessica yet).
True--just like there's no rule, any more, about whether zombies should move slowly or quickly.
But, like Lapis, I just don't see the appeal of the sexy variety.
Or rather, I think I see the appeal--I just don't feel it.
Oddly enough, this topic came up at a dinner party I attended last night. The consensus seemed to be that the transition to the 'sexy' vampire took place in the 1970s--particularly with Frank Langella's performance as Dracula in the 1979 film.
I just checked, and according to its posters, that movie's full title was "Dracula: A Love Story." Its tagline read: "Throughout history, he has filled the hearts of men with terror, and the hearts of women with desire."
The Langella film definitely hit a nerve with an entire generation of female fans, but the vampires = sex equation goes back to the very beginning of the genre.
"The Vampyre" by John Polidori, which is generally regarded as the first true vampire story in English literature, introduced the idea of the vampire as a Byronic rake who seduces and betrays his female victims before destroying them. And that was in 1819.
And then, of course, there's "Carmilla," which launched the whole lesbian vampire subgenre--way back in 1872.
"The Vampyre" by John Polidori, which is generally regarded as the first true vampire story in English literature, introduced the idea of the vampire as a Byronic rake who seduces and betrays his female victims before destroying them. And that was in 1819.
And then, of course, there's "Carmilla," which launched the whole lesbian vampire subgenre--way back in 1872.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I will have to find that book, so I can atest to that as well. Thanks for the clue..
Hey, on a side bar Greg, do you still follow DC comics, specfically the JSA story line in the past year or so???
Rob
FYI: Both "The Vampyre" and "Carmilla" are short stories that have been widely reprinted--especially "Carmilla." It shouldn't be too hard to track down.
I'm a few months behind in my DC reading, but,yep, I've been following the whole Gog/Magog storyline. (And thank you for giving me an excuse to mention that my novelization of COUNTDOWN just went on sale Monday!)
I'm a few months behind in my DC reading, but,yep, I've been following the whole Gog/Magog storyline. (And thank you for giving me an excuse to mention that my novelization of COUNTDOWN just went on sale Monday!)
Everybody knows that all lesbians are vampires, that's why there are lesbian vampire killers.
