Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Kor, Feb 1, 2020.
Well, that sucks.
I know. I"m still mad they never did a movie wrap up like they did for Timeless, but I guess there was too much to cram in, and/or the sets were already being taken down. I seriously didn't expect that to happen. It aired during an era where a ton of shows were getting good solid endings. I totally took the show for granted until it was suddenly gone.... but Killjoys keeps on going. Meh.
The Shadow War was originally suppose to be twenty years long. Originally back when O'Hare was Sinclair. But also with Boxleitner as Sheridan who was suppose to die on Z'Ha'Dum before coming back from the dead after twenty years (according to a reddit user who has all the JMS B5 script books).
There was talk from the show creators/show runners at the time it was cancelled that were looking to for do a comic or other print media wrap up so fans would know how things were supposed to finish but they had legal issues to deal with (a search might turn up the Dark Matter thread where it was posted).
Guess either there wasn't the demand or the legal issues were too much.
So... back to the topic of Firefly. I just finished a re-watch of the whole series and Serenity. I don't feel that the overall story is begging for a continuation. Things are going to be a little easier for everybody in the 'verse, with the Alliance's influence and control having been undermined. Inara and Mal's mutual attraction is kind of at a good point now that Inara is apparently staying aboard Serenity. I don't feel the need to see how it develops going forward.
The slight inconsistencies between the series and the movie make me feel that the movie takes place in a slightly different continuity. Serenity is a sequel to Firefly the way that Superman Returns is a sequel to Superman: The Movie and Superman II.
One frequent criticism of Serenity that I really don't get is the notion that they turned Simon into some kind of action hero with him breaking River out of the facility at the beginning. When exactly does he do anything action-y? He crouches down and hits his walking staff onto the ground, and it releases that knock-out pulse. Then he sneaks down the hallway with River. Then he sits there in a window frame trying not to get shot. Then they get on a platform and ride it up to the waiting ship. Nothing there screams "action hero" to me.
I think i'll do a re-watch of Serenity this weekend...
I tend to agree. I personally would have preferred the series continue rather than getting a movie, with Joss' other ideas being explored more. See more of Blue Sun, more of Inara's and Mal's relationship, etc.
Maybe I'm just not that keen of an observer, but could you please explain what these slight inconsistencies are?
For one, the biggest thing is Mal's characterization in the movie being jarringly and inexplicably 'darker and edgier' than where we had left him at the end of the series, with a sudden antagonistic relationship with Simon for what looks like no reason at all, when they had been on friendly terms the last we saw.
Simon breaking River out of the facility himself doesn't line up with his story in the series about paying some other guys to break her out and sneak her out in the freezer box. Plus, in the movie he pretty much knows from the get-go what they were doing to River, and that she can read minds, whereas in the series, he had to discover this information little by little.
In terms of design, there are various changes to the ship that don't make much sense for a crew that's barely scraping by and probably can't afford all these upgrades.
There's some other stuff as well.
IIRC, Mal's characterization in the movie is closer to what Whedon always wanted him to be like but FOX thought he was too dark.
I think this is the biggest one for me. Mal is far more calloused and hostile than even in "Objects in Space." It certainly fits in with where Joss wanted to go, and the film had more freedom, but it was still jarring. Especially when he kicks a guy off the Mule.
I think pretty much everyone would have preferred that, but the show ended up canceled, so the movie was the only way they could continue things at the time. I do wonder if it was around today if it would have ended up being picked up by one of the streaming services. It seems like the kind of show they would have liked to save.
Mal always reminded me a bit of Kerr Avon for "Blake's 7", properly innovated upon as well as almost properly Americanized. Indeed, "Serenity" has Mal even spouting lines directly from B7, either verbatim or with slight alterations (which I sorta liked... the one line taken from B7 series 3 finale's "Terminal" and inverting it about what to do if they don't hear back from him had me in stitches...)
if you could put together a dream-cast for a firefly series, what would it look like?
one actor that i instantly think of are Gal Gadot for Inara Serra..
edit1: yeah and Jack Black as Jayne Cobb
They are very different characters. Mal is far too much a Kirk/Blake style character to be considered an Avon analogue. Avon is far to much a 'Spock" style character to be anywhere like Mal, even Americanized. The closest I've seen American's get to Avon type characters on American scifi have maybe shown up on the Expanse, but not anywhere else in the past 40 years as far as I have seen.
One area where the movie definitely shone in comparison to the series was in the visuals, from the effects right down to the film stock and the lighting. If Firefly ever does come back in some form, I hope it looks as good as Serenity.
For me, those changes are noticeable but not enough for a different continuity. Some of it felt natural for the passage of time between series and movie. I'd handwave the ship upgrades as the result of the crew making a few scores and having money to spend ... for a while. (Maybe following the events of "Serenity: Better Days"?) Similarly, Mal / Simon are now more antagonistic because River is getting worse and Simon's attempts to placate Mal are wearing thin. I assumed the latter even when I saw it in the theater.
The changes with Simon breaking out River are more jarring, particularly if he suddenly already knows all about her. However, I don't mind seeing a retcon of Simon doing it himself instead of paying guys to do it ... the fact that he was willing to do so at all is where the "action hero" thing comes in. I handwave the discrepancy by figuring that he did pay some guys to get him that far (and put her in the freezer), and he left his own actions out of his original description due to modesty. Yeah, I know Simon's not the most modest guy in the 'verse, but he also knows he's no action hero.
However, I haven't watched either one in a while, so may be overlooking details / aspects that mess up the aforementioned handwaves. YMMV in all cases.
Thanks for the clarification. When I saw Serenity, I had only seen the series through once, as I was very late to the game. I've not watched the series in a while, so perhaps it's time to introduce the wife to it. I do see what you mean about a darker/edgier Mal as portrayed in the movie, but I think based on what was actually happening in the movie, he had a right to go dark. Mal strikes me as a man who while fair and just, also has a dark side, which perhaps might have been visited more had the series been able to continue. Thanks again for the insight!
I was confused and disappointed that season 5 wasn't about the Telepath War...since it was supposed to be a major and pivotal event in the B5 historical timeline.
Instead we got that weird Byron thing, with Lyta and Byron have sez while the rest of the TP'a watched, and Sheridan and everyone suddenly being uncharicteristic jerks to the telepaths for no good reason (I re-watched that episode on Comet recently, it does not hold up.
But that storyline was obviously a set up for the TP War...but then it never materialized
And then Crusade takes place after it, so we never saw it. Maybe there were plans for a separate Telepath War project?
The Earth blown back to Medieval times was an obvious homage to "A Canticle for Lebowitz". I thought that it made a cool mini story, but it had me wondering what happen to the other Earth/Human colonies, and to the Interstellar Alliance everyone worked so hard to build, that they would just abandon Earth?
I rhought that the whole blowing up B5 because it was a "navigational hazard" was stupid. Space is big, and I don't imagine a lot of traffic would be going through the space directly above that planet Epislon whatever, that B5 would be in the way. And blowing it up just created a bunch of debris the that would REALLY be a hazard to navigation! Plus B5 was a historical landmark (well, spacemark), worth preserving. And it was a big expensive station that cost a lot of time and money and resources to build (more factoring in losing the previous 4 stations that were lost) and it wasn't really that old and it was a lot of real-estate...surely a use could be found for it...as a home for refugees, a colony maybe...a research station for the Great Machine on the world bellow it...maybe just a big space hotel-resort.
And the less said about Legend of the Rangers, the better...with G'kar seeming to forget about the whole Shadow War that just happened.
I still wish there was some way to make more B5 universe set series or maybe a movie. To bring it to a younger audience, since the episodes were never really properly preserved, and all look like crap now sadly. Not to mention dated as hell. Sadly ao many of the original cast members are dead...a total reboot would be cool on one hand...but on the other, we already know all the plot twists and turns already, so it would just be retreading old ground, unless it was seriously re-written...but then it would be a different story entirely.
Still, it was a groundbreaking show, that paved the way for so much of arc-based plot twisting, big mystery TV that followed it...would love to see something that would make a new generation appreciate it. I try to get my geek children to give it a spin, but they just say it looks old and cheesy.
My ex-wife and I were both rewatching it, until she said that the streaming service she was using some wanted to start charging her for episodes before she could finish season one. Not sure why...???
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