USS Vengeance - design build?

[Kemaiku]

Uh, yes the entire Xindi incident was caused by intervention from the future.

The 26th century Sphere Builders told the Xindi that Humans were out to kill them, and in the future would destroy their planet, a complete lie so that they could use the Xindi as slave labour to build the Spheres and create the Expanse, altering the past.

That did not happen in the original timeline.

 

[The Wormhole]

Uh, yes the entire Xindi incident was caused by intervention from the future.

The 26th century Sphere Builders told the Xindi that Humans were out to kill them, and in the future would destroy their planet, a complete lie so that they could use the Xindi as slave labour to build the Spheres and create the Expanse, altering the past.

That did not happen in the original timeline.

But that does not make it part of the TCW.

Besides, all Mr. Daniels said was that it was it was not part of his original timeline. But even back when Enterprise was in production it was a popular theory that he was not from the Prime timeline.

 

[BillJ]

3) There's no evidence to suggest the Romulans didn't have warp drive in Balance of Terror. Indeed, they would need it in order to fight a war against Earth. All we know for certain is that the ship in the episode wasn't warp capable.

Which is wrong. They had to have gotten from Romulus to the Neutral Zone. Whatever they were using for FTL either wasn't fired up or unrecognizable to the Enterprise sensors.

Plus, their ship had freaking warp nacelles.

 

[OpenMaw]

Plus, their ship had freaking warp nacelles.

It had nacelles, yes, but we don't know that they're "warp" engines. Just like the TOS shuttle doesn't apparently have warp capability.

 

[The Wormhole]

3) There's no evidence to suggest the Romulans didn't have warp drive in Balance of Terror. Indeed, they would need it in order to fight a war against Earth. All we know for certain is that the ship in the episode wasn't warp capable.

Which is wrong. They had to have gotten from Romulus to the Neutral Zone. Whatever they were using for FTL either wasn't fired up or unrecognizable to the Enterprise sensors.

Plus, their ship had freaking warp nacelles.

According to the novels they were meeting with a warp capable mother ship. Yeah, I know, not canon, but how else can you explain it?

 

[BillJ]

3) There's no evidence to suggest the Romulans didn't have warp drive in Balance of Terror. Indeed, they would need it in order to fight a war against Earth. All we know for certain is that the ship in the episode wasn't warp capable.

Which is wrong. They had to have gotten from Romulus to the Neutral Zone. Whatever they were using for FTL either wasn't fired up or unrecognizable to the Enterprise sensors.

Plus, their ship had freaking warp nacelles.

According to the novels they were meeting with a warp capable mother ship. Yeah, I know, not canon, but how else can you explain it?

I just did...

Whatever they were using for FTL either wasn't fired up or unrecognizable to the Enterprise sensors.

 

[Kemaiku]

Plus, their ship had freaking warp nacelles.

It had nacelles, yes, but we don't know that they're "warp" engines. Just like the TOS shuttle doesn't apparently have warp capability.

Yes they do actually. In The Menagerie, the shuttle chased the Enterprise at warp for several light years before exhausting their fuel. It burns up their deuterium supply when sustained for a few hours, but they can do it.

 

[M'Sharak]

...

lol. So Starfleet openly made a Dreadnaught Class ship? Kind of hard to sell the message that you're a "peacekeeping and humanitarian" armada when one of your ship designs has the word "dread" in it's class name.

That would have been a lame critique even if one weren't aware that "dreadnaught" (or "dreadnought") literally means "fear nothing".

Yeah, I don't think "fear nothing" is a Starfleet or Federation motto, let alone the kind of direction you would want to give your officers when exploring the great unknown. Plus every use of the word dreadnought in Star Trek, including STID, has been used to describe something that's primarily built for destruction.

Your attempt to move the goalposts fails to do anything to render your earlier remark less lame.

 

[Mountie1988]

How long do you think it took Starfleet in the Abramsverse to design and build the USS Vengeance, which is a huge purpose built warship that dwarfs the Abrams-timeline Enterprise.
I doubt the Vengeance's basic design was a direct result to the events in ST2009 since Nero's destruction of Vulcan in 2258 occurred only a year before ST Darkness took place in 2259, and taking less than a year to design a large, complex starship like the Vengeance from scratch to a complete and ready-for-service ship stretches plausibility.

Supposedly Khan (who was revived by Section 31 under Admiral Marcus’s direction) helped design the Vengeance. I don't find it plausible Khan designed the Vengeance by himself since he would still have had late 20th century engineering knowledge when Section 31 revived him. Though, as seen as “Speed Seed” in the prime timeline, Khan was a quick learner and studied starfleet technical manuals, and Khan might have suggested refinements to the IMO already designed ship. Still, I doubt the basic design of the Vengeance was laid out by Khan and it's design was on Starfleet's drawing board for several years, and refined into a warship-oriented design by Marcus and his pursuit of a more military-oriented Starfleet.

In the prime timeline it took almost 20 years from the Galaxy class to go from scratch to a commissioned in service-class. And I imagine it took a decade prior to 2259 to get the Vengeance off the drawing board and service-ready.

It's also interesting the huge USS Vengeance took the opposite approach to the purpose-built warship concept, when compared to the small easy to build in quantity USS Defiant in the TNG-era prime universe.

You imply logic and thoughtful scriptwriting where none exists.

 

[anotherdemon]

It seems just like a class of ship designed for a response to the dangers of the galaxy and the predicted war/s -- the model was on display for everyone to see after all, and even if it truly was a secret build (everyone opposed Marcus' plans, which is unrealistic), he could still display a proposed design.

After several Federation ships were destroyed by Narada over Vulcan (not to mention Vulcan dying and Earth close to it -- the main reasons), it was probably easier for the brass with more realistic views on the galaxy to at least get a dedicated warship built. People would be asking Starfleet many questions over why they couldn't stop Vulcan from dying, and how can they stop it from happening again -- people opposed to the building of dedicated warships would start to face a lot of opposition, and rightly so.

The Federation without "heroes" to win the day and "gods" to blink away the bad would last all of...several years until something like the Husnock or Borg came along. Well, that's how the stories go; the human "will" and "ideal" wins in the end rather than what humans see as "bad" (war and conquest based on might, which actually is what wins in the real world, but this is fiction).

 

[James]

It has been vaguely hinted that the Vengeance was a prototype starship meant for experimentation, basically the USS Excelsior. They can always try retconning, that's the cheap way to right a wrong.