USS Prometheus MVAM or not?

[cwl]

Do you think USS Prometheus would be best with Multi-Vector Assault Mode or just as a regular type starship?

I was wondering because MVAM seems to be incredibly complicated to produce, it would require a great deal of system duplication and the mechanics of it would use up a lot of internal space.

perhaps the ship would be better if it was more conventionally designed?

 

[YARN]

Do you think USS Prometheus would be best with Multi-Vector Assault Mode or just as a regular type starship?

I was wondering because MVAM seems to be incredibly complicated to produce, it would require a great deal of system duplication and the mechanics of it would use up a lot of internal space.

perhaps the ship would be better if it was more conventionally designed?

Well, battleships in space is kind of dippy to begin with.

Why send out a manned warship? If it's only purpose is fighting, then only put a machine at risk.

Imagine a giant porcupine ship with a thousand little robot ships (i.e., the quills) departing from the ship. They coordinate assaults in swarms. They jump in and out of warp and feature different weapon platforms.

 

[sojourner]

Prometheus debate again.

 

[T'Girl]

MVAM seems to be incredibly complicated to produce, it would require a great deal of system duplication and the mechanics of it would use up a lot of internal space.

Remember, the Enterprise D was also a "mvam." We saw this in a few episodes, and the line of thought that went into her, might have continued into the design of the Prometheus. The only systems that would need to be duplicated are the basics and the combat systems, the advantage of the Prometheus (over three permanently separate ships) is that in combat all three sections don't have to carry all the non-combat stuff. Every section doesn't have a cargo holds, or flight deck, or science labs, or bowling alleys, these things can be divided.

So it would be three starships, not the one Prometheus, that would carry the duplication.

 

[Finn]

Prometheus debate again.

There's about to be a new Tuvix thread in 5...4...3...2...

 

[cwl]

I think the Promme is a great design but im not too keen on MVAM.

 

[T'Girl]

During the majority of the Prometheus's regular starship missions it wouldn't separate, any more than the Enterprise D did.

Even in battle, the mvam woud be an option, not a requirement.

 

[cwl]

hmm makes sense I guess. just wondering if 3 small ships are better than 1 big ship though.

 

[cwl]

hmm makes sense I guess. just wondering if 3 small ships are better than 1 big ship though.

 

[The Wormhole]

Multi-vector assault really wasn't properly thought out. First of all, upon seperation, all three sections are still controlled by the main bridge? While I agree, in certain circumstances it may be of tactical advantage of the main bridge to have control of all three sections, I would think in most situations it would be better for each section to have its own bridge which would allow that section to operate independantly.

And while turning the ship into three objects might work out against a single ship, being able to attack it from different angles at once, I can't help but think that when going up against a fleet it would be better to stay together.

So really, the Prometheus and its multi-vector assault seems cool but isn't practical at all.

 

[Caesar753]

I think the Promme is a great design but im not too keen on MVAM.

My thoughts exactly. I found the MVAM to be a little on the gimmicky side.

 

[CoveTom]

Remember, the Enterprise D was also a "mvam."

Was it really? Sure, the saucer could separate, but that was not to allow the two sections to engage in battle separately. It was so in a high risk situation, all the non-essential personnel could escape to safety or so that you could evacuate the ship in the event of a core breach. Only once do we see the saucer being used in combat -- namely, during Best of Both Worlds -- and that was by definition a very unusual situation.

 

[Timo]

Stock question, stock response:

To me, MVAM as depicted makes a great deal of sense. That is, it is very sensible to use uncrewed starships in combat, and it is also very sensible to make those uncrewed starships as large as possible (there's no logic in using tiny little combat drones if those don't each individually possess the threshold strength of hurting a starship, and we have seen how poorly small craft in general fare against starships). However, as "The Ultimate Computer" shows, giving control of large combat starships completely over to an intelligent computer is unacceptable in the Trek universe. Hence, it makes sense to remotely control the large combat drones from a nearby spacecraft that safely stands out of the fight.

Furthermore, it makes sense to cluster the drones and the command center into one single starship for deployment runs. That eliminates the need for big warp engines in the command section, and in turn allows the command crew direct access into the drones for maintenance and repair. Housing the drones aboard a big-engined carrier vessel would be wasteful because the drones themselves already have the big engines as a combat requirement; the classic main functions of the carrier, such as C3I, maintenance and ammo replenishment, can be provided by the tagalong command section.

Two drones per command section is a good start, I guess. This combination isn't too much bigger or smaller than the average crewed starship, so it can use the same spacedocks etc. Also, the size of the Prometheus command section is sufficient for turning the cluster of two drones and one crewed section into a "crewable" starship that can perform noncombat missions as needed, even if combat missions only call for a very small operating crew.

(The depiction of MVAM in "Message in a Bottle" suffers from two basic faults IMHO. First, we saw the command section taking part in battle. But that was an exceptional situation with inexpert Romulans in command of the swarm. Two, we saw and heard that only four people are needed for operating the ship, and indeed Starfleet has only trained four - this is very little for the maintenance tasks, and hardly warrants a sickbay several decks down when an EMH console on the four-man bridge should suffice! But the statement about four trained people might apply after the Romulans killed all the crew of the ship, potentially a much higher number.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jpch]

MVAM is not like galaxy classes saucer separation lol its a tactical move while the saucer sep is like a huge escape pod it cant maintain warp on its own or shield strength while the Prometheus can. in the main specs of the ship(stated on screen in message in a bottle) the ship has ablative hull armor,regenerative shields and MVAM,meaning the ship would be best to use its special ability in combat,since its a vital part of its specs.

 

[Vanyel]

Two, we saw and heard that only four people are needed for operating the ship, and indeed Starfleet has only trained four...
Timo Saloniemi

PrometheusEMH: Oh, trouble. The Prometheus is a prototype. Top secret. Only four people in all of Starfleet trained to operate it.

Only trained four to operate a prototype, not it needed only four people to operate it. It may have been on a shake down trip to Alpha Centauri when it was hijacked.

 

[F. King Daniel]

That teeny little warp nacelle that popped out the saucer section's top when it seperated was embarrassing.

 

[Timo]

Only trained four to operate a prototype, not it needed only four people to operate it.

The episode establishes both things, actually.

Dialogue tells us that only four people have been trained (although we don't know if that's the four corpses onboard, or four people in addition to an unknown number of corpses aboard). And the plot itself reveals that four people can indeed operate the ship and the swarm successfully in a series of combat maneuvers.

If anything, a prototype droneship would need more personnel than an operational vessel that has had all its quirks worked out already...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vanyel]

Only trained four to operate a prototype, not it needed only four people to operate it.

The episode establishes both things, actually.

Dialogue tells us that only four people have been trained (although we don't know if that's the four corpses onboard, or four people in addition to an unknown number of corpses aboard). And the plot itself reveals that four people can indeed operate the ship and the swarm successfully in a series of combat maneuvers.

If anything, a prototype droneship would need more personnel than an operational vessel that has had all its quirks worked out already...

Timo Saloniemi

I can agree with that.

 

[The Badger]

... all three sections are still controlled by the main bridge?...

Ah, but where they actually controlled from the main bridge, or just co-ordinated? It might be that the two other sections have sufficient computing power to act independently and carry out their own actions. The people on the main bridge might only been needed to designate the target ("Romulans!"). There may even have been dedicated 'battle bridges' on the other sections, for use under a full crew.

Dialogue tells us that only four people have been trained (although we don't know if that's the four corpses onboard, or four people in addition to an unknown number of corpses aboard). And the plot itself reveals that four people can indeed operate the ship and the swarm successfully in a series of combat maneuvers.

Four people can operate it under combat circumstances, certainly. Whether four are sufficient for long term deployments is another matter. I'd suspect the vessel is intended to employ a much larger crew.

 

[T'Girl]

In the episode (iirc) Angel One, Data would have been able to take the Enterprise Dee to the Neutral Zone by himself, the rest of the crew being too sick to be effective. Whether the ship would have only been a show of force, or had to have engaged in combat was unclear.

It is doubtful Data could have maintained the Enterprise for a extended period of time completely by himself. But apparently, he could have simply "drove it around."

.