USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

[Vektor]

This runs into the same problem as shuttlebay only escape. If the first pod in the system jams for some reason, all the pods behind it are doomed. Sea going vessels avoid this for the same reason.

Good point, but I wasn't thinking of racking them a dozen to a tube or anything like that, probably no more than two.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I had a similar idea, though I envisioned those as blow-away hull plates that would expose the lifeboats underneath. I may still do something like that on my Modified TOS Enterprise model.

Exactly. Much more dramatic that way... appeals to the pyromaniac that lurks inside me

 

[CaptainPipcard]

Looks very good.

 

[Captain]

You should have little "no parking" signs hanging in front of the torpedo launchers

 

[sojourner]

You should have little "no parking" signs hanging in front of the torpedo launchers

Nah, go with the old military aircraft stand by "not a step"

 

[FrontLine]

It’s a thought, but I don’t think red and white—or black and orange—stripes would help much in reducing the obtrusiveness of the escape pods unless they were very small scale. I haven’t ruled something like that out, though.[q/uote]
At first I was being a smart ass, but the more I think about it, maybe it wouldnt be such a bad idea at all. I'm thinking of the border as being 6" (maybe 12") wide around the blowout panels. Considering the scale of your ship they would probably be nearly hidden but they should be just visible enough. Meh what do I know, Im stuck in a 2D world. Maybe. Like Psion I have to agree that the panels on the -E got out of control. The subtle off colored panels also makes sense as well.

 

[Psion]

I think the point behind the visible lifeboat hatches was to have justifiable detail on the hull. No one wants Star Wars-style nurnies all over a Starfleet ship, but there's an instinctive need in SFX people to give us little details for scale reference and to break up smooth surfaces. So in later Trek productions, there's a search for excuses for details ... escape pod hatches, phaser emitters, photon torpedo launchers. Sensor palettes, tractor emitters, transporter arrays -- until eventually we get ships like the 1701-E and 2009 Enterprise that are practically covered with nurnies.

Undoubtedly true, although I would dispute the last point. The new Enterprise from Trek ‘09 was relatively sleek and uncluttered, compared to the Sovereign class and most other late 23rd century designs anyway.

Sorry, Vektor -- and with the greatest respect, but the latest Enterprise is the most cluttered design yet. I've got the toy right here in front of me, and the junk all over the nacelles (especially on the cowling) is staggering. Much more so than the refit, and even more than 1701-E. And while the primary and secondary hulls aren't as cluttered, they still have more than 1701-A. Maybe even the D.

I guess the worst offender was the NX-01, but I'll forgive them that since a cluttered look suited a more primitive vessel.

 

[ST-One]

I think the point behind the visible lifeboat hatches was to have justifiable detail on the hull. No one wants Star Wars-style nurnies all over a Starfleet ship, but there's an instinctive need in SFX people to give us little details for scale reference and to break up smooth surfaces. So in later Trek productions, there's a search for excuses for details ... escape pod hatches, phaser emitters, photon torpedo launchers. Sensor palettes, tractor emitters, transporter arrays -- until eventually we get ships like the 1701-E and 2009 Enterprise that are practically covered with nurnies.

Undoubtedly true, although I would dispute the last point. The new Enterprise from Trek ‘09 was relatively sleek and uncluttered, compared to the Sovereign class and most other late 23rd century designs anyway.

Sorry, Vektor -- and with the greatest respect, but the latest Enterprise is the most cluttered design yet. I've got the toy right here in front of me, and the junk all over the nacelles (especially on the cowling) is staggering. Much more so than the refit, and even more than 1701-E. And while the primary and secondary hulls aren't as cluttered, they still have more than 1701-A. Maybe even the D.

I guess the worst offender was the NX-01, but I'll forgive them that since a cluttered look suited a more primitive vessel.

You can hardly compare a toy to the movie's CG-model.

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

I don't totally understand the 'complaints' with a cluttered look. Now I could understand if you were referring to an ST ship looking like the ones in the Alien movies and Halo games (different universes and cultures built those ships so they fit with what they were goign for) But I still see ST ships as more military/scientific than anything else. And modern ships of the seas sure have a lot of 'flair' on them.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Undoubtedly true, although I would dispute the last point. The new Enterprise from Trek ‘09 was relatively sleek and uncluttered, compared to the Sovereign class and most other late 23rd century designs anyway.

Sorry, Vektor -- and with the greatest respect, but the latest Enterprise is the most cluttered design yet. I've got the toy right here in front of me, and the junk all over the nacelles (especially on the cowling) is staggering. Much more so than the refit, and even more than 1701-E. And while the primary and secondary hulls aren't as cluttered, they still have more than 1701-A. Maybe even the D.

I guess the worst offender was the NX-01, but I'll forgive them that since a cluttered look suited a more primitive vessel.

You can hardly compare a toy to the movie's CG-model.

I don't think that's what he's doing. The "toy" has all the MAJOR components and details, but is actually quite a bit less detailed, overall, than the CGI model (and it's fair to point out that it's probably not "the model" but a series of different-resolution model versions, and even a few "partial builds of the model" just like you'd have in real-model work... each set up for slightly different purposes, and potentially having a few details subtly different).

Still, the toy is the best reference we currently have. It's pretty accurate (I'm sure that they had access to the one of the CGI models when they made it... it would be silly not to have given them that, after all.)

It IS pretty "cluttered" in terms of big, bold, structurally-pointless curvy- blobby shapes, particularly in the dorsal and nacelle areas. The dorsal area is just STUPIDLY constructed, frankly... a smooth shape, rather than the "tiered" construction, would be orders of magnitude stronger, no matter what magic-construction-materials you use. The engine pylons are covered with "graphic art geometry" as are the nacelles... the ship is just covered with stuff there just for "visual interest" (as it's usually described) without it seeming to serve any functional purpose.

Hell, even the hangar doors show this... instead of a simple rotational system, the shape they have requires the door panels to perform a "warping/bending" action as they withdraw into the ship... you can see this very clearly in the shuttle-launch sequence.

The new ship isn't designed as a functional, 3D mechanism, it's designed as a piece of 2D graphic art, with all the trademark foibles that go along with that... and that includes the "big bold curvy-shape high-lights for visual interest" one.

 

[ST-One]

It IS pretty "cluttered" in terms of big, bold, structurally-pointless curvy- blobby shapes, particularly in the dorsal and nacelle areas. The dorsal area is just STUPIDLY constructed, frankly... a smooth shape, rather than the "tiered" construction, would be orders of magnitude stronger, no matter what magic-construction-materials you use. The engine pylons are covered with "graphic art geometry" as are the nacelles... the ship is just covered with stuff there just for "visual interest" (as it's usually described) without it seeming to serve any functional purpose.

No, Star War's Stardestroyer is 'cluttered'.
What you see here as clutter is actually surface detail.

As for the surface details on the pylons... don't they look very much like those on the Refit's pylons? And I've never heard anyone refer to those as 'clutter'.

 

[Nightfall to-Ennien]

Guys, you're starting to get off topic here, this thread is for discussion about and display of Vektor's model of the U.S.S. Grandeur, not to kvetch about the new Enterprise. Everyone has different design preferences, I understand this, but unless they're related to the Grandeur, there are other places to discuss them.

 

[Yug]

The new ship isn't designed as a functional, 3D mechanism, it's designed as a piece of 2D graphic art, with all the trademark foibles that go along with that... and that includes the "big bold curvy-shape high-lights for visual interest" one.

I don't want to see a movie with a boringly functional space ship, if we went for pure function over visually interesting, we woudn't be drooling over Vectors work here !!

 

[Cary L. Brown]

The new ship isn't designed as a functional, 3D mechanism, it's designed as a piece of 2D graphic art, with all the trademark foibles that go along with that... and that includes the "big bold curvy-shape high-lights for visual interest" one.

I don't want to see a movie with a boringly functional space ship, if we went for pure function over visually interesting, we woudn't be drooling over Vectors work here !!

Actually, that's why so many people like his work so much... though it's done with a clear eye to "style," it's also done with a clear eye to practicality (or rather, "fictional practicality" I 'spose).

Virtually every detail added is there or a reason. All of them are FICTIONAL reasons, but they're still reasons nevertheless. His work looks like a machine... but a well-designed, artistically-styled machine.

Seeing that... a proper fusion of "style" and "substance"... is what I, and lots of other folks, like. I just don't get that from the ST'09 design. I see lots of style for its own sake, but very little real thought behind it.

Vektor's 1701, by contrast, has both. As does his Grandeur.

 

[Yug]

The new ship isn't designed as a functional, 3D mechanism, it's designed as a piece of 2D graphic art, with all the trademark foibles that go along with that... and that includes the "big bold curvy-shape high-lights for visual interest" one.

I don't want to see a movie with a boringly functional space ship, if we went for pure function over visually interesting, we woudn't be drooling over Vectors work here !!

Actually, that's why so many people like his work so much... though it's done with a clear eye to "style," it's also done with a clear eye to practicality (or rather, "fictional practicality" I 'spose).

Virtually every detail added is there or a reason. All of them are FICTIONAL reasons, but they're still reasons nevertheless. His work looks like a machine... but a well-designed, artistically-styled machine.

Seeing that... a proper fusion of "style" and "substance"... is what I, and lots of other folks, like. I just don't get that from the ST'09 design. I see lots of style for its own sake, but very little real thought behind it.

Vektor's 1701, by contrast, has both. As does his Grandeur.

Yup.... I agree.

 

[Gepard]

Guys, you're starting to get off topic here, this thread is for discussion about and display of Vektor's model of the U.S.S. Grandeur, not to kvetch about the new Enterprise. Everyone has different design preferences, I understand this, but unless they're related to the Grandeur, there are other places to discuss them.

...aaaaand, it goes over like a lead balloon.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Guys, you're starting to get off topic here, this thread is for discussion about and display of Vektor's model of the U.S.S. Grandeur, not to kvetch about the new Enterprise. Everyone has different design preferences, I understand this, but unless they're related to the Grandeur, there are other places to discuss them.

...aaaaand, it goes over like a lead balloon.

It floats?

 

[Gepard]

It floats?

Don't you bring evidence into this.

 

[Yug]

I have to agree with earlier posts, those guns in the front of the saucer section seem clumsy. They look a bit like buck teeth. Maybe if you made them more flush with the saucer's edge?

 

[Praetor]

I come here looking for the secrets of Grandeur, and what do I find? Kvetching!