USS ENTERPRISE HAYNES OWNERS MANUAL (Part 3)

[TIN_MAN]

Captain Robert April
Well, I'd be very interested in seeing these "legacy shots", because I've got a few pics of the original bridge set under construction...

....and you will note that at this time (which specifically is what is being discussed), the upper deck is all one piece, making it impossible to "swap out" the turbolift with any of the other stations. They didn't make all the stations wild until regular production began and the bridge was pretty much completely rebuilt over at the Gower Street studio, after all the problems they had with the original version at the Culver City studio.

Well, this pic you posted doesn't show the T/L alcove, or the command module for that matter, so how do we know that it wasn't built the way Vance (and others, including myself) believe it to have been? Unless you've got other pics that show different?

And even if it could be shown that the set was constructed the way we've always seen it, that does not mean that it might not have been changed during the blueprint stage, and was not originally designed the other way?

Besides, Shaw has researched this early period more pedanticly than anyone, and he says all sections including the T/L alcove were "wild" when the bridge was first built at the Culver City studio, so that section could have been moved later? In any case I'd be willing to take Shaw's research as very credible in this regard.

 

[Mysterion]

I originally wanted a DS9 tech manual, but I never got around to getting one. Now the only copies available are quite pricey from what I've seen. And now I don't feel that strongly about it anymore.

I just checked Amazon, and... dang! New copies starting at $119.99, and used copies starting at $58.95. The book is good, but not that good. Amazing.

Keep an eye on your local used bookstores. Picked-up a copy of the DS9 TM awhile back at Half Price Books for about $16/US in near-mint condition.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Captain Robert April
Well, I'd be very interested in seeing these "legacy shots", because I've got a few pics of the original bridge set under construction...

....and you will note that at this time (which specifically is what is being discussed), the upper deck is all one piece, making it impossible to "swap out" the turbolift with any of the other stations. They didn't make all the stations wild until regular production began and the bridge was pretty much completely rebuilt over at the Gower Street studio, after all the problems they had with the original version at the Culver City studio.

Well, this pic you posted doesn't show the T/L alcove, or the command module for that matter, so how do we know that it wasn't built the way Vance (and others, including myself) believe it to have been? Unless you've got other pics that show different?

And even if it could be shown that the set was constructed the way we've always seen it, that does not mean that it might not have been changed during the blueprint stage, and was not originally designed the other way?

Besides, Shaw has researched this early period more pedanticly than anyone, and he says all sections including the T/L alcove were "wild" when the bridge was first built at the Culver City studio, so that section could have been moved later? In any case I'd be willing to take Shaw's research as very credible in this regard.

"The Making Of Star Trek" makes mention of how the original bridge set, used in the pilots, was a pain in the tuchus precisely because all of the sections weren't wild, a situation that was corrected when the series sold and moved over to Gower. As soon as I can find the relevant passage, I'll post it here.

It's quite likely that Jefferies designed it to so that all the sections would eventually be wild, but until they had a series order, it was probably cheaper to just build it mostly solid. It was a given that they'd get some bucks to retool for regular production, which they did; the bridge that was used during regular production was essentially a completely different set, at least as far as construction went.

A couple of big hints, one of which is due to the lack of carpeting in the upper level, the other is much more visible in WNMHGB, is the newly reddish-orange handrails: In both cases, no seams. If the sections were wild, there'd be seams that would stick out like sore thumbs (and do, in the case of the handrails in later episodes, whereas the gray carpet on the deck hides them nicely).

 

[TIN_MAN]

So it looks like in the pic you posted, that some of the "missing" consoles (and perhaps others) were wild, but not the floor sections. fair enough?

 

[Starlock]

I remember the same info from TMOST concerning how difficult the first bridge was to use.

IRRC It also mentions that the original soundstage had a bit of a slope, so parts of the bridge set had to be elevated to level it.

 

[Vance]

So it looks like in the pic you posted, that some of the "missing" consoles (and perhaps others) were wild, but not the floor sections. fair enough?

Look carefully... that's the set that went largely unused. (They tore it apart and rebuilt it.)

 

[TIN_MAN]

So it looks like in the pic you posted, that some of the "missing" consoles (and perhaps others) were wild, but not the floor sections. fair enough?

Look carefully... that's the set that went largely unused. (They tore it apart and rebuilt it.)

Not sure what you're getting at? This is the set used in filming "The cage" was it not? How does that qualify as "largely unused"?

And more to the point, it's this set in its construction phase that we are talking about as to where the turbo lift might have been originally, so the fact that it was tore apart and rebuilt later, hardly seems relevant?

What am I missing?

 

[Captain Robert April]

So it looks like in the pic you posted, that some of the "missing" consoles (and perhaps others) were wild, but not the floor sections. fair enough?

Pretty much. Since at this point, the set was being built for the pilot, and they almost certainly had a pretty good idea what shots there were gonna need, they would only have wild sections where they needed them for that pilot film, and worry about the rest later if they were lucky enough to be bought by the network.

The remarks in TMoST from Matt Jefferies indicate that the "original" bridge set had eight wild sections, later modified to ten. In light of the pic I posted, I think the comment had to do with the set as it was at the beginning of regular production; from what I can tell from both the pic and the pilots themselves, the main wild parts of the set were the viewers above the control panels on the right side, and maybe the panels themselves, but the deck is pretty clearly one continuous section.

 

[137th Gebirg]

So it looks like in the pic you posted, that some of the "missing" consoles (and perhaps others) were wild, but not the floor sections. fair enough?

Look carefully... that's the set that went largely unused. (They tore it apart and rebuilt it.)

Not sure what you're getting at? This is the set used in filming "The cage" was it not? How does that qualify as "largely unused"?

And more to the point, it's this set in its construction phase that we are talking about as to where the turbo lift might have been originally, so the fact that it was tore apart and rebuilt later hardly seems relevant?.

What am I missing?

IIRC, the bridge in The Cage looked significantly smaller on-screen than the rebuilt production version. Even the comparison at Ex Astris shows some indication of this:

Cage Bridge

Production Bridge

The former definitely appears as if it was a more cramped space.

 

[Vance]

Not sure what you're getting at? This is the set used in filming "The cage" was it not? How does that qualify as "largely unused"?

Mostly. This version was changed heavily due to so many problems in the pilot's production, easily referenced by popping in "The Cage" on DVD. Panels and shapes are a little different, making this picture of a very early build a pretty valuable piece of Trek history right here.

Sadly, from here, it's impossible to tell what the inner bridge was going to be like. The angle doesn't show the front screen, naturally, and the entire turbolift area is still missing. We don't have the captain's chair to check the facing yet, of course. Lastly, the railing is also lined up with the turbolift, which is a different angle at this point.

IIRC, the bridge in The Cage looked significantly smaller on-screen than the rebuilt production version. Even the comparison at Ex Astris shows some indication of this:

Interesting note for comparison, though I think that illustration is inaccurate. One thing, though, if you look at where the 'railing gap' is in the illustration, it's NOT in front of the turbolift like is in that early set construction. (There are other numerous differences as well, such as number of panels.)

 

[TIN_MAN]

Sadly, from here, it's impossible to tell what the inner bridge was going to be like. The angle doesn't show the front screen, naturally, and the entire turbolift area is still missing. We don't have the captain's chair to check the facing yet, of course. Lastly, the railing is also lined up with the turbolift, which is a different angle at this point.

I don't know, I think we can see the edge of the front screen to the far right of the photo? Also, since as you said, we don't see the T/L area, how do you/we know that the railing is lined up with it?

P.S. I'm assuming the right side of the picture is the front of the bridge, and the left is the back?

 

[Ghostsoldier]

Speaking of the non-forward bridge position, as it relates to the ship's centerline, was it interpreted that way on the later blueprints (FJ's, notably), because of the "bridge fly-in shot" to Pike in The Cage?

To me, it looks to be at that 36-degree angle offset, when the camera zoomed in for that effects shot; I've always wondered if FJ picked up on that, and drew his plans to reflect that....
Rob

 

[Vance]

I think that FJ just lined up the turbolift interior with the exterior of the model, honestly. I personally don't think he referred to the "Cage" shot...

 

[TIN_MAN]

Yeah, "The Cage" zoom in shows the angle to be offset about 18*, so it's kinda six of this half a dozen of the other as far as it goes. it really doesn't support either an on-centerline or an offset of 36*. IIRC?

Back to the early bridge construction, here's a quick and dirty analysis I did. I'm sure others can do a better job, but this gets the basic points across.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i376/tin_man_2010/Picture001.jpg

I basically spliced the two photos from "The Cage" contact sheets together and then contrasted that with a diagram of the series bridge. It doesn't take into account perspective and such, but for our purposes, I think it'll work?

The black horizontal lines in both pics show where the breaks in the railings are and how they correspond to the main viewer.

The large red "X" serves to line up the corresponding consoles and railings in both pics, and the small "X"s in the lower pic show where people are standing in the above photo. Note that the technicians on the left are working on what will become Spock's science station.

Also there is a blur in the upper photo that corresponds to the "?" mark in the lower diagram, which I believe was caused by someone walking behind there when the pic was snapped?

So, it seems that at this point in the construction the turbo lift was in the same place it's always been, so any changes would have had to have been made earlier?

 

[Ghostsoldier]

Thanks for the input....it was something I always wondered about, ever since I bought those blueprints back in '74...
Rob

 

[Vance]

So, it seems that at this point in the construction the turbo lift was in the same place it's always been, so any changes would have had to have been made earlier?

IT's really hard to say. We know the intent of the model was that the turbolift and bridge screen (which is on the 'cage' version of the model) are lined up front to back, and that remains. We've been told more than once that it was swapped for 'photographic' reasons. The real issue is that we don't know WHEN this occurred.

It had been sighted as a easy thing to do with the modular set, but the early version of the bridge wasn't modular yet (and was later broken apart). It's possible that the switch was made during the mock-up stage, (IE, if the cameras are at X, Y, and Z, you won't get a shot of B, C, and E) but that goes a bit against what we've been told since.

Sadly, with nearly all the principles gone, we may never know the full truth of this riddle. It's clear that the design intent changed SOMEWHERE along the way. The only disagreement seems to now be exactly where that was.

 

[Captain Robert April]

We know the intent of the model was that the turbolift and bridge screen (which is on the 'cage' version of the model) are lined up front to back, and that remains.

That's my point. We DON'T know that. We only have a logical argument for it, but no evidence of it (in fact, we've got some to counter that assertion) and one wrong premise enough to destroy the most logical argument.

In other words, as a wise man once said, logic only allows one to be wrong with authority.

 

[Vance]

That's my point. We DON'T know that. We only have a logical argument for it, but no evidence of it (in fact, we've got some to counter that assertion) and one wrong premise enough to destroy the most logical argument.

Actually, we do, the model of the Enterprise itself as shown in "The Cage", which clearly has both the turbo-lift and the original window (which was obviously changed to a main screen for obvious reasons later) shown on it - lined up front to back.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Hmm? While I support the idea that the T/L was originally intended to be behind the Captain's chair, I'm not convinced you can support it by assuming that the detail on the front of the model's dome is a window?

In the first pilot the small black rectangle is not the right size, shape, or position to correspond to the inner viewer. At most, it might be intended as a camera/sensor linked via closed circuit to the inner viewer, in which case it need not correspond with the location of the viewer anyway?

And in the second pilot the large lighted rectangle, although about the right size and shape, is but one of three such details (the others being on the sides of the dome) and seem to serve the function of self illumination lights for the upper saucer, much like similar lights on the refit 'E'?

In any case, there's nothing to indicate that these details were meant to be 'windows'?

 

[Warped9]

That's my point. We DON'T know that. We only have a logical argument for it, but no evidence of it (in fact, we've got some to counter that assertion) and one wrong premise enough to destroy the most logical argument.

Actually, we do, the model of the Enterprise itself as shown in "The Cage", which clearly has both the turbo-lift and the original window (which was obviously changed to a main screen for obvious reasons later) shown on it - lined up front to back.

That lighted "window" didn't appear on the model until WNMHGB. In "the Cage" we can clearly see there is no such "window" on the exterior hull where the bridge is located. And a few minutes later we hear Pike order, "Screen on." So it's most likely there never was a "window" intended for the bridge.