US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

[Lindley]

Even if Obama gets 8 full years (yes, I voted for "change", but not this kind), the next prez could do a 180 and restart the program.

It's not like they've sunk that much money into the current program that an 8 year gap would be such a big deal.

And just maybe there are bigger things to deal with right now other than moon landings and those of us who want the future to happen in our lifetimes are out of luck.

They'd better not restart Constellation----it was cancelled for a damn good reason.

But a future, different manned moon or Mars mission, using the technology which Obama's plan will be developing for us now, is absolutely a good idea.

Obama hasn't cancelled manned spaceflight. He's just insisted that we modernize the system before we overreach ourselves.

 

[Jadzia]

What did our parents achieve? A level 80 death knight.
.

But would returning to the moon be an achievement?

It's an achievement because it's difficult to do. It stretches us to our intellectual and engineering limits.

I'm not saying it has to be a moon project, I'm not saying it even has to be a space project, but something ambitious and fun. We must have ambition. We must keep stretching ourselves. It is the spirit of being human.

If it was a full scale project, for purposes of scientific enquiry, then yes we should return. But to go back simply for the sake of going back is pointless. An ego boost for the American people, a moment of defiance, a shout of 'AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!'.

Well I don't care which nation(s) achieve these things: USA, Europe, China, Russia, or whoever, is irrelevant to me. I don't have a tribalist mentality; I'm more interested in the human achievement. I would feel equally proud of the achievers, independent of what language they speak.

 

[The Badger]

It's an achievement because it's difficult to do. It stretches us to our intellectual and engineering limits.

I'm not saying it has to be a moon project, I'm not saying it even has to be a space project, but something ambitious and fun. We must have ambition. We must keep stretching ourselves. It is the spirit of being human.

That's certainly a good point, and one I would agree with. But wouldn't you agree that it's better to have an achievement with substance?

Well I don't care which nation(s) achieve these things: USA, Europe, China, Russia, or whoever, is irrelevant to me. I don't have a tribalist mentality; I'm more interested in the human achievement. I would feel equally proud of the achievers, independent of what language they speak.

That's a sentiment I can agree with.

 

[Jadzia]

That's certainly a good point, and one I would agree with. But wouldn't you agree that it's better to have an achievement with substance?

Perhaps, but I don't have a better idea right now.

The learning and doing experience can be valuable in itself. The act of the world's most brilliant people all pulling together and doing the best work they can to achieve something for humanity.

 

[ConRefit79]

I can't see how China getting to the moon in 2020 would be embarrassing for the US. America got there in 1969. The space race is over, America won.

This.

Let the Chinese go to the Moon, as long as someone's carrying this forward. They can afford it, we - thanks largely to Dubya - can't. Obama's done the right thing, here.

Let's see. When Bush came into office, the US was ~ $5T in debt. When he left we were $10T. That was $5T over 8 yrs and after, the Clinton and 911 recessions, 2 wars and the start of Bush Recession (stimulus of 2008 and TARP). Now we're $12T - $13T in 1 yr. BTW, Congress raised the debt ceiling to $14.1T today. And, Obama's 2011 budget has a $1.6T deficit. That budget anticipates new taxes from the sunset of the Bush tax cuts, healthcare and cap and trade, none of which have passed. And it is still $1.6T in the red.

 

[Candlelight]

I honestly think the way NASA is going lately China would have beaten the Americans anyway.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Even if Obama gets 8 full years (yes, I voted for "change", but not this kind), the next prez could do a 180 and restart the program.

It's not like they've sunk that much money into the current program that an 8 year gap would be such a big deal.

And just maybe there are bigger things to deal with right now other than moon landings and those of us who want the future to happen in our lifetimes are out of luck.

They'd better not restart Constellation----it was cancelled for a damn good reason.

But a future, different manned moon or Mars mission, using the technology which Obama's plan will be developing for us now, is absolutely a good idea.

Obama hasn't cancelled manned spaceflight. He's just insisted that we modernize the system before we overreach ourselves.

I wasn't necessarily advocating continuing Constellation. Others like The Badger have a better idea that it's a poor system overall than I do.

 

[scotpens]

Me: “Why do we need to go to Mars?”
Them: “WHY?? WHY??? GEEZUSSFUCKINGAREYOUNUTS? BY THIS TIME IN STAR TREK THE ANTIGRAVOMETRIC SELF FLAGILATOR WAS INVENTED AND THE MARTIAN COLONIES WERE GOING FULL FORCE AND THEN IN THE SECOND GRADE I REMEMBER BEING TOLD THAT BY 2005 I'D BE TAKING A VACATION ON THE MOON BEFORE HEADING TO THE MINES OF MARS.....WE HAVE TO GO TO MARS....JUST....FUCKING....HAVE....TO!!!!!!!!”

Antigravometric self-flagellator? Sounds kinky!

When I was in my teens, there were two things I was sure would happen before the year 2000: the legalization of marijuana and a manned expedition to Mars. The way things are going now, it looks as if a manned Mars mission won't happen in my lifetime.

Well, if you smoke enough good dope, you might THINK you're on Mars . . .

 

[drychlick]

i not like the the idea of china going to to the moon too! but that life! the usa should be a leader! not come in 2th or 3! We just not have the money for this now! but still bug the hell of me!

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

China won't go to the Moon, the Chinese will land robots there but its not the Chinaman's final destination. China unlike the old Soviet program the Chinese state gov has left a lot of news reports and info out in the open. Some of it is smoke and mirrors, so you need to be cynical and critical to see what they are really up to. They are building a rocket for heavy lift payloads but they will not colonize the Moon. The Moon is too bare and inhospitable to ever be colonized even in the 21st century its still to baron and bare for us.
Mars will be China's final destination, got an atmosphere, almost a 24 hr day and lots of resources, they could sustain a colony there and truly make Mars a red planet. First China will need to have gained experience in long term flight, I can see this after they have kept people on a space station around 2017 ish, the Chinese are a production and economic power house, their economy barely took any blows during the global financial meltdown and they easily have the tech to build a long term space station. Once they have gained experience in long term flight they will have the raw data and guts to make that 6 month voyage to Mars. The mission the Chinese take will be very similar to the one outlined by aerospace engineer and author Robert Zubrin. Once the Chinese make Mars theirs this century will truly be a Chinese one.

 

[Deckerd]

China won't go to the Moon, the Chinese will land robots there but its not the Chinaman's final destination. China unlike the old Soviet program the Chinese state gov has left a lot of news reports and info out in the open. Some of it is smoke and mirrors, so you need to be cynical and critical to see what they are really up to. They are building a rocket for heavy lift payloads but they will not colonize the Moon. The Moon is too bare and inhospitable to ever be colonized even in the 21st century its still to baron and bare for us.
Mars will be China's final destination, got an atmosphere, almost a 24 hr day and lots of resources, they could sustain a colony there and truly make Mars a red planet. First China will need to have gained experience in long term flight, I can see this after they have kept people on a space station around 2017 ish, the Chinese are a production and economic power house, their economy barely took any blows during the global financial meltdown and they easily have the tech to build a long term space station. Once they have gained experience in long term flight they will have the raw data and guts to make that 6 month voyage to Mars. The mission the Chinese take will be very similar to the one outlined by aerospace engineer and author Robert Zubrin. Once the Chinese make Mars theirs this century will truly be a Chinese one.

You seem to forget the age-old human tradition of telling the imperial overlords a long way away to shove it where the sun don't shine. The Chinese will be no different than any other humans: we settled here; this is our land; you can't tell us what to do.

 

[Jetfire]

^
More reason why Space exploration needs to be a global effort.

Not that it will happen that way.

 

[Deckerd]

There will be plenty of physiological problems in settling on Mars for a long time. The low gravity will take its toll on the human body and may well affect such functions as fertility, not to mention being born (if this turns out to be possible) and growing in low gravity and what that might do to the body and mind. That's why Venus, for all its problems, is a more realistic prospect for long-term settlement.

 

[Jetfire]

Doing anything in space requires our technology to be way better than it is now...which disappoints many people.

Venus is an often forgotten planet...but much can be done there...I think the masses want a quick and easy space exploration fix. More exciting things can happen beyond Mars...once again for humans to have colonies, our technology needs to improve.

Mining the moon, at this point seems the best idea...not really popular.

 

[sojourner]

Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.

 

[Jetfire]

Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.

Colonization
Main article: Colonization of Venus
Due to the extremely hostile conditions on the surface, current technology disallows any possibility of colonizing the surface of Venus soon. However, there have been recent speculations about the possibility of developing extensive "floating cities" in the atmosphere of Venus in the future.[125] This concept is based on the atmospheric conditions approximately fifty kilometres above the surface of the planet, where atmospheric pressures and temperatures are thought to be similar to those of Earth. Proposals suggest that manned exploration can be conducted from aerostat vehicles, followed in the longer term by permanent settlements.[125] The existence of dangerous quantities of volatile acids at these heights, however, precludes any short term settlements.[125]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

 

[BolianAuthor]

I think it's so funny that even today, in the year 2010, some people cling to this 1950's-era belief that the Moon belongs to America, and that it ought rightfully be the USA that leads mankind into space, no matter the destination.

If the Chinese go to the Moon, great for them... why shouldn't they have that aspect to their national pride? Why should the USA have a monopoly on the space program being a source of national inspiration/direction?

What would happen if somehow, the first nation to send a manned team to Mars is a Muslim nation, like Iran or Egypt? Who cares? The point is that it gets done, not who does it.

 

[Jetfire]

^
This is why I think space exploration should be and global effort...I am sure there are alot of bright minds from nations that don't even have or close to have a space program like the USA, Europe, Russia, Japan or China...but could add something to the effort.

 

[sojourner]

Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.

Colonization
Main article: Colonization of Venus
Due to the extremely hostile conditions on the surface, current technology disallows any possibility of colonizing the surface of Venus soon. However, there have been recent speculations about the possibility of developing extensive "floating cities" in the atmosphere of Venus in the future.[125] This concept is based on the atmospheric conditions approximately fifty kilometres above the surface of the planet, where atmospheric pressures and temperatures are thought to be similar to those of Earth. Proposals suggest that manned exploration can be conducted from aerostat vehicles, followed in the longer term by permanent settlements.[125] The existence of dangerous quantities of volatile acids at these heights, however, precludes any short term settlements.[125]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

Yes, that's clearly much easier than colonizing Mars.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Jetfire]

Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.

Colonization
Main article: Colonization of Venus
Due to the extremely hostile conditions on the surface, current technology disallows any possibility of colonizing the surface of Venus soon. However, there have been recent speculations about the possibility of developing extensive "floating cities" in the atmosphere of Venus in the future.[125] This concept is based on the atmospheric conditions approximately fifty kilometres above the surface of the planet, where atmospheric pressures and temperatures are thought to be similar to those of Earth. Proposals suggest that manned exploration can be conducted from aerostat vehicles, followed in the longer term by permanent settlements.[125] The existence of dangerous quantities of volatile acids at these heights, however, precludes any short term settlements.[125]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

Yes, that's clearly much easier than colonizing Mars.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

I never said it was easier...just one of many options.