A
US Representative, at least 6 others killed
- Thread starter Cicero
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Nowhere Man
Commodore
Just to clarify before BolianAdmiral or Nerys draws any conclusions about the whole of TrekBBS from this angry post, the aptly named but poorly spelled Hilbilly Rage is not a liberal or Democrat. He's some kind of weird form of libertarian, not that they're any more responsible for his bizarre rants than anyone else. He also fancies himself a student of history, but has some strange views on that subject as well.
I don't fancy myself as a history student, I am one. I don't know what the fuck I gotta do to make that clear. My views that i've mentioned about history are in line with the facts and many historians agree with my views. They are not my views, they came from others and are true. If you want to go into specifics we can, otherwise i'll leave it there.
The general agreement from most of the posters in the thread is that Sarah Palin is not responsible for this incident in any way. Loughner was just some nutcase with no defined political background. That being said, the fact that Palin's people (and The Daily Kos from the other side of the political fence with a different article) felt the need to pull a webpage with targets over Giffords' district and the comment "don't retreat, reload" speaks volumes about the vitriolic state of political rhetoric in this country. Giffords' offices were vandalized, guns were secretly brought to her town hall meetings, and death threats were made against her over health care reform. Giffords herself commented on Palin's (and other's) militant rhetoric and how it was escalating the anger of some of her more extreme constituents. There's nothing wrong with reflecting on the tone of political dialogue today in the wake of this incident and asking for less demonization of one's opponents on either side.
It's not dismissive to call this guy a nut at all, and your comparison of him to the Founding Fathers or John Brown is just laughable. He dropped out of high school and got fired from multiple jobs. He got booted out of community college after five incidents requiring the involvement of campus police and would only be readmitted with a mental health evaluation that said he was no longer a danger to himself or others. He scared the hell out of the teacher and the whole class on the first day and a teacher and classmate both said he could potentially commit a school shooting and were not the least bit surprised when they heard his name come up in this incident. He was rejected when he tried to join the military. He was obsessed with Giffords because he asked her a nonsense question at a previous speaking event and she responded to his bizarre question humorously in Spanish. His political beliefs and favorite books are all over the map. He hates the Constitution but claimed his college was illegal under the Constitution, wants to return to the gold standard, likes contradictory libertarian and totalitarian and socialist writing, and was stoned off his ass most of the time. He was a guy with severe mental problems, not a revolutionary.
People were more concerned with the fact that Loughner was able to legally purchase a handgun and three extended magazines despite having a police record, drug problems, and recorded mental health issues at college. Unfortunately the nature of the problems were not severe enough to remain in public databases permanently and trigger an alert when he went to buy the gun, but perhaps that is something that can be changed to prevent these kinds of incidents in the future. If he hadn't done this he might have been the next Virginia Tech type shooter as well. He was determined to do something.
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, that's all i'm saying. I'm not defending the actions of the guy, i'm just saying.
I don't think there's any danger of guns being taken from legitimate owners in Arizona, dude.
WTF?
I don't know what's worse, that you think an actual revolution is coming, or that you want "The Right" to keep quiet until it happens and seem to be secretly cheering it on.
This topic is now 50% nuttier though, so thanks for that.
I don't want the right to keep quiet, I said they should as in, if they are planning something then it would be wise for them to keep quiet about it. The secessionists kept thier ideas quiet for a while before they actually decided to seceed. I don't think there is a revolution on the way that is bieng planned. I think more and more shit keeps happening that is going to divide the country more and more that will pile up more and more. I think this will lead to some sort of organized something that will be a revolution of sorts. Since most conservatives are concentrated in the South, then it will rise out of the South. Will it be the rise of the Confederacy, no I don't think so, but I believe this is not the last time we see this shit. The right says they tone down the retoric, but I don't see it happening. It's only going to get worse. These may be isolated incidencts, but it's a combination of a massive change in this country. If they were smart, they would shut up completely, that won't happen IMO. Oh, and I wouldn't put it past them to be happy about this, at least some of them.
Again, Loughner was more John Hinckley, Jr. than John Wilkes Booth. He's a guy with serious mental problems, not part of a secessionist movement.
Ummm...[Dr. Evil] How 'bout, 'NO', Scott! [/Dr. Evil]
It was a major political issue that was VOTED upon by each state. It had been predicted as a political possibility since AT LEAST the 1840s. Secession had been in the papers for decades.
I just want to quote this for truth. From my 6 months working for her, she instilled her staff with a sense that we are all here to serve her constituents. No comment, no matter how seemingly silly eventually ended at her desk (usually digitally since that is how we logged it). Everyone I worked with in her office showed a great dedication to the people of AZ 8. I can't count how many times that I would spend what seemed like an entire day on the phone with the VA helping vets. Unlike Senator McCain, she visits Fort Huachuca regularly and listens to the soldiers there.
Even though I don't line up with her all of the time politically, she is one of the good ones.
Thank you all for your kind words.
A
Amaris
Guest
Yeah, that's not what I heard...
Can this Hilbilly dude come to the darkside, please?? I find him fascinating to say the least.
^
Right click, save!
Right click, save!
Here is the problem. If, before this guy every got around to killing any body, the government had decided to lock him up as a nut case, how many liberals would be out there decrying the rights of this guy? Sort of like they did with the Gitmo detainees.
You should feel lucky that they don't go around just locking up nutcases. There's no booze in insane asylums.
Well said. And thanks for giving us the details of the victims and heroes of that shooting.
No need to lock him up because he is mentally ill.
Might be nice if he couldn't buy a gun, but then your pals on the right wing would go nuts about that, wouldn't they?
"No health care for the mentally ill, but all the guns they want!"
There's your 2012 campaign slogan.
Oh, that's the problem? I thought the problem judging by your last two posts was health care reform and that Obama was a socialist propagandist? So is this the latest revelation from the extreme right wing pundit See & Say you use to post here? Stick with discussions about reverse engineering transistors from the Roswell aliens even though the principle behind it was known two decades before 1947, because your kookiness fits in much better there.
By the way, if we were "decrying his rights" that would mean that we were condemning his rights, so pretty much the opposite of what you intended to say there, champ. Though I'm amused that you think sticking up for the legal rights of the mentally ill or detainees held indefinitely without trial is some kind of insult.
What prompted your little verbal drive-by anyway? Were there people calling for Loughner to be arrested and held in a mental hospital indefinitely without justification, because I seem to have missed that? Perhaps you could point it out to me between spouting non sequiturs about liberals and lefties. Unfortunately nothing he did prior to hurting and killing anyone last week rose to the level where he could be lawfully held for mental treatment, and if he had done something warranting that, I seriously doubt you'd see many liberals or conservatives decrying that decision.
Now run along, son, adults are trying to have a discussion here, and you throwing a dart at a peg board full of BeckRushian scare words to determine what your next leftie/liberal criticism that has nothing to do with this topic will be isn't nearly as amusing as when you don your tinfoil hat and complain about the lack of evidence for the Moon landings.
Nowhere Man
Commodore
[Dr. Evil] How 'bout, 'NO', Scott! [/Dr. Evil]
It was a major political issue that was VOTED upon by each state. It had been predicted as a political possibility since AT LEAST the 1840s. Secession had been in the papers for decades.
This is true, but the decade leading up to war they had meetings discussing weather or not to secceed. These were private meetings. They had to build up support first, then go public. Secession was rumored and threatened in the 1820s, but the meeting in the 1840-1850s were not public.it wasn't until late 1850s early 1860 that it really became public.
I've been asking that question for years. He was born in 1929, so he's due any year now.
Everyone's favorite Westboro Baptists are now going to be picketing the funerals of the Arizona shooting victims.
He's been protesting at military funerals for years, so I guess once you go down that road there's no turning back.
I normally don't cheer when someone dies, but when this crotchety old man croaks I'm celebrating.
And of course this party won't be anywhere near his burial place.
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