US Citizen Detained & Denied Counsel

[PKTrekGirl]

Welcome to the USA, post-Patriot Act, folks.

We let it happen, so I don't know why anyone would be surprised by this.

Yeah but that doesn't mean we sit back and let it continue to happen now. It was wrong then and it continues to be wrong now.

Couldn't agree more, about how it was wrong then, and it's wrong now. And if you think I have been 'sitting back', you must not have been reading my posts on this topic for the past 9 years. There was a time on this board, in fact, where I felt like I was the only American saying, "Look, people - don't you guys see what an incredible abridgment of our civil liberties this is? And how the application of this thing will allow our government to simply slap the term 'suspected terrorist sympathizer' on anyone they like, and do everything from tap their phone to haul them off to disappear them in some Central Asian gulag without due process?"

Mostly, my protests got responses like "Well, if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about [from government surveillance]." Most people c. 2002/2003 - even around here, were willing to sell away every civil liberty we had in their quest to feel 'safe' from the 'bad guys' of the world. They bought Dubya's Campaign of Fearmongering hook, line and sinker..and elected that idiot - AGAIN in 2004. And the next thing I know, our citizenry is having a SERIOUS debate about whether or not it is okay to torture people. I mean WTF! Exactly how low do we have to sink in order to be having a *national debate* about that?

No one even cared that they were selling out our own Constitution...for the illusion of 'safety'. And they labeled people like me as everything from 'liberal kooks' to 'terrorist sympathizers'....because we did not believe in the Bush War On Civil Liber...erm...I mean, 'Terror'. And we said so. Very loudly. Jesus - do you have any idea how much shit I had to take - in this very forum, in fact, for even defending the frakkin' Dixie Chicks, when a billion redneck radio stations were banning them from the airwaves and burning their records? It was unreal.

So...sorry if I sound cynical about any sort of national outrage over something like this. Because from where I sit, this latest incident is just 'more of the same'...and has been going on since late 2001...while most of the country intentionally turned a blind eye.

And now, we have a hell of a long road back to sanity in front of us. I don't know if you are a Bruce Springsteen fan of not...but a line from one of his songs says it best - it's 'gonna be a long walk home'.

 

[goofy]

Two Words: Epic Fail. This would never happen in Canada, and in the rare event it did (especially post-Maher Arar,) heads would roll. Not important ones of course, but there would be lip service and some expendable (minion/snitch?) of CSIS (Canadian Security / Intelligence Service) would be strolled out before the media to satisfy the public's required "pound of flesh" before reporters are ushered off Parliament Hill or wherever the meet's held.

 

[Stardate]

Muslim Americans, second class citizens.

Now he feels how Christians, Jews and other minorities are treated in Islamic counties on a daily basis. According to Sharia law who in my view breaks the UN human rights charter. Citizen who aren't Muslim are consider second class citizen in Islamic countries.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Non citizens you mean illegal immigrants from Mexico sneaking in the United States border illegally carry loads of drugs on their backs? They do quite well in California since there are a majority living there and living off the American tax payers money!

Actually, generally speaking, they pay into the system and never take back out, since they have to pay income tax, but can't file for a rebate. They also generally avoid most social services, since those are run by the government and the government has a habit of deporting them. So, no, most don't live off American tax payer money, they actually help keep our government more solvent.

BTW, I actually figured it was a reference to the Australian, Chinese, Bosnian, etc. detainees at Camp X-Ray, but I could be wrong.

Yeah and they come back, no taxes come out of their money. They also get free housing if they have children.

You can't start with a word indicating agreement if the rest of your post is the exact opposite of what I just said. Simply put, no, they all pay taxes (because employers demand social security numbers and withhold money for payroll taxes, but illegal immigrants never file tax returns).

Source. Now you try supporting your arguments.

Muslim Americans, second class citizens.

Now he feels how Christians, Jews and other minorities are treated in Islamic counties on a daily basis. According to Sharia law who in my view breaks the UN human rights charter. Citizen who aren't Muslim are consider second class citizen in Islamic countries.

Instead of "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave," we could change our motto to "At Least We're Not Worse Than Saudi Arabia."

 

[Roger Wilco]

And keeping in mind what happened to this poor guy, imagine how non-US citizens are treated thanks to the "war on terror" policies...

Non citizens you mean illegal immigrants from Mexico sneaking in the United States border illegally carry loads of drugs on their backs? They do quite well in California since there are a majority living there and living off the American tax payers money!

How does that relate in any way to what I said?

No, of course I was talking about the thousands of alleged terrorists thrown into some cell in a secret prison somewhere by the US to be tortured and imprisoned indefinitely without trial or any chance of apealing against their treatment.

 

[bigdaddy]

Muslim Americans, second class citizens.

Along with blacks, gays, asians....

 

[Sector 7]

Muslim Americans, second class citizens.

Along with blacks, gays, asians....

and white males, the only group who is not allowed to have a special interest to represent them. I am a gay, white male... so at least I have some representation.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

*gets closer* Really? How you doin'?