Unpopular Trek opinions game

[Discofan]

We'll survive World War III. It will cull the heard, but we will adapt.



It took many Communist countries much longer to recover than the rest.

This has nothing to do with political regimes but with bombardment. The main cities of Poland were almost wiped out by them. Warsaw was almost completely destroyed, I think only one percent of the buildings remained. We never got anything like that in France, not by a long shot. I know, I am of Polish origin.

 

[Vger23]

Anyway...unpopular (?) opinion:

The Cardassians are the most well-developed, interesting, non-monocultural villain race in the Trek universe.

 

[Discofan]

Anyway...unpopular (?) opinion:

The Cardassians are the most well-developed, interesting, non-monocultural villain race in the Trek universe.

I have a problem with that expression: "Villain race". There may be villain political regimes, or villain customs or habit but the concept of a "villain race" is so... demented and anti-Star Trek in its initial principles. That it feels like a betrayal of Gene Roddenberry's... vision.

 

[Vger23]

I have a problem with that expression: "Villain race". There may be villain political regimes, or villain customs or habit but the concept of a "villain race" is so... demented and anti-Star Trek in its initial principles. That it feels like a betrayal of Gene Roddenberry's... vision.

 

[Discofan]

009 was a clown.

And was killed by an (evil) knife thrower...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I agree calling the whole race villainous is reductionist. The military and Obsidian Order are and they tend to have extreme authoritarian values. But we also saw dissidents, scientists and rebels among them.

 

[Vger23]

I agree calling the whole race villainous is reductionist. The military and Obsidian Order are and they tend to have extreme authoritarian values. But we also saw dissidents, scientists and rebels among them.

Oh for fucks sake, you all knew what I meant.

The Cardassians are meant to be antagonists to the Federation. I said they were well-developed and non-monolithic, the very meaning of which would imply that they aren't just a race of black and white villains and that their history and composition was rich and fleshed-out.

Christ, people need to frigging relax and stop looking for shit to fight about.

"You damn reductionist simple-minded bastard. How DARE you be such a racist prick to call the Cardassians VILLIANS!!! I bet you slap your mother too!!!1!"

Cut me a break, will you? It's fiction.

 

[BillJ]

I bet you slap your mother too!!!1!"

 

[JLBTucker]

I like the militarized Star Fleet from the TOS movies, I know purists don't like but i do and love the military style uniforms form this era.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Oh for fucks sake, you all knew what I meant.

The Cardassians are meant to be antagonists to the Federation. I said they were well-developed and non-monolithic, the very meaning of which would imply that they aren't just a race of black and white villains and that their history and composition was rich and fleshed-out.

Christ, people need to frigging relax and stop looking for shit to fight about.

"You damn reductionist simple-minded bastard. How DARE you be such a racist prick to call the Cardassians VILLIANS!!! I bet you slap your mother too!!!1!"

Cut me a break, will you? It's fiction.

Way to escalate a small disagreement over use of terms into screaming swears for no reason.

Nobody thinks you’re “Racist and simpleminded”. We just think you’re making something nuanced and gray into something simplistic and black and white and misinterpreting the point of the show.

Cardassians aren’t even treated as villains until they join the Dominion.

 

[BillJ]

I like the militarized Star Fleet from the TOS movies, I know purists don't like but i do and love the military style uniforms form this era.

I don't mind a militaristic look, I just don't think they did a very good job of it with the monster maroons.

 

[Vger23]

I like the militarized Star Fleet from the TOS movies, I know purists don't like but i do and love the military style uniforms form this era.

I'm actually with you on this. I like the more formal, military feel and organization of Starfleet in the TOS films. For some reason, it makes that version of the Trek universe feel more "real" to me.

 

[Vger23]

Way to escalate a small disagreement over use of terms into screaming swears for no reason.

Nobody thinks you’re “Racist and simpleminded”. We just think you’re making something nuanced and gray into something simplistic and black and white and misinterpreting the point of the show.

Cardassians aren’t even treated as villains until they join the Dominion.

The very point of the post I made said that they were a well-developed, non-monolithic race. It actually said they were the BEST version of this in the franchise. That, by definition, means I agree with everything you are trying to say about how nuisanced they are.

But, let's face it, they were intended and used primarily as antagonists. A synonym for antagonist is "villain." It's not an uncommon way to describe a fictional person or group of people who are meant primarily as foils to the main characters. It was a choice of words that was originally designed to allow me to express something that I figured everyone would understand with some sense of brevity. I can see now that was a horrific mistake.

And for that I get two holier-than-thou lectures about Gene's Vision and reductionist attitudes toward (gasp) a fictional race of aliens.

Ok.

 

[fireproof78]

But, let's face it, they were intended and used primarily as antagonists. A synonym for antagonist is "villain."

I was going to say that the first time we meet the Cardassians they are rather villainous towards the Federation. Certainly Picard and O'Brien regard them as villains at times.

Yup, sounds about right.

 

[Lord Garth]

My opinion that the fourth season of TNG is better than the third held up. I rated all the episodes on a four-star scale. And this is how each season came out...

S1 Average: 2.52
S2 Average: 2.70
S3 Average: 3.02
S4 Average: 3.08
S5 Average: 2.96
S6 Average: 3.06
S7 Average: 2.90

So my rankings ended up: 4, 6, 3, 5, 7, 2, 1.

You can click on the spoiler box to see how I rated each individual episode.

Spoiler

S1
Encounter at Farpoint – 2
The Naked Now – 3
Code of Honor – 1
Haven – 2.5
Where No One Has Gone Before – 3.5
The Last Outpost – 2
Lonely Among Us – 3
Justice – 1
The Battle – 3
Hide and Q – 2
Too Short a Season – 1.5
The Big Goodbye – 3
Datalore – 4
Angel One – 2
11001001 – 4
Home Soil – 1
When the Bough Breaks – 2
Coming of Age – 3
Heart of Glory – 3.5
The Arsenal of Freedom – 3
Skin of Evil – 2.5
Symbiosis – 2
We’ll Only Have Paris – 3
Conspiracy – 4
The Neutral Zone – 3
Average: 2.52
Median: 2.5

S2
The Child – 2
Where Silence Has Lease – 3
Elementary, Dear Data – 3.5
The Outrageous Okana – 2
Loud as a Whisper – 2.5
The Schizoid Man – 3
Unnatural Selection – 2
A Matter of Honor – 3
The Measure of a Man – 4
The Dauphin – 2.5
Contagion – 3
The Royale – 2.5
Time Squared – 3
The Icarus Factor – 2
Pen Pals – 2.5
Q Who – 4
Samaritan Snare – 2
Up the Long Ladder – 3
Manhunt – 2
The Emissary – 3.5
Peak Performance – 3.5
Shades of Grey – 1
Average: 2.70
Median: 2.75

S3
Evolution – 3
The Ensigns of Command – 3
The Survivors – 3.5
Who Watches the Watchers – 3.5
The Bonding – 2
Booby Trap – 3
The Enemy – 3.5
The Price – 2
The Vengeance Factor – 2
The Defector – 4
The Hunted – 2.5
The High Ground – 3
Deja Q – 3.5
A Matter of Perspective – 3
Yesterday’s Enterprise – 4
The Offspring – 4
Sins of the Father – 4
Allegiance – 3
Captain’s Holiday – 3
Tin Man – 2
Hollow Pursuits – 3
The Most Toys – 1.5
Sarek – 3.5
Menage a Troi – 3
Transfigurations – 2
The Best of Both Worlds, Part I – 4
Average: 3.02
Median: 3

S4
The Best of Both Worlds, Part II – 3.5
Family – 3.5
Brothers – 3
Suddenly Human – 2.5
Remember Me – 3
Legacy – 2.5
Reunion – 4
Future Imperfect – 3
Final Mission – 3.5
The Loss – 3
Data’s Day – 3.5
The Wounded – 3.5
Devil’s Due – 3
Clues – 3
First Contact – 3
Galaxy’s Child – 3
Night Terrors – 3
Identity Crisis – 2
The Nth Degree – 3
Qpid – 3
The Drumhead – 4
Half a Life – 2.5
The Host – 3
The Mind’s Eye – 3
In Theory – 3
Redemption, Part I – 3
Average: 3.08
Median: 3

S5
Redemption, Part II – 3
Darmok – 4
Ensign Ro – 3
Silicon Avatar – 2.5
Disaster – 3
The Game – 3
Unification, Part I – 3
Unification, Part II – 3
A Matter of Time – 3
New Ground – 2
Hero Worship – 2.5
Violations – 2
The Masterpiece Society – 2.5
Conundrum – 3
Power Play – 3
Ethics – 3.5
The Outcast – 3.5
Cause and Effect – 4
The First Duty – 4
Cost of Living – 2
The Perfect Mate – 2.5
Imaginary Friend – 2
I, Borg – 3.5
The Next Phase – 3
The Inner Light – 4
Time’s Arrow, Part I – 2.5
Average: 2.96
Median: 3

S6
Time’s Arrow, Part II – 2.5
Realm of Fear – 2
Man of the People – 2
Relics – 3
Schisms – 3.5
True Q – 3
Rascals – 2.5
A Fistful of Datas – 3
The Quality of Life – 3
Chain of Command, Part I – 4
Chain of Command, Part II – 4
Ship in a Bottle – 3
Aquiel – 3
Face of the Enemy – 4
Tapestry – 4
Birthright, Part I – 3
Birthright, Part II – 3
Starship Mine – 3
Lessons – 4
The Chase – 3
Frame of Mind – 3.5
Suspicions – 3
Rightful Heir – 3.5
Second Chances – 3.5
Timescape – 3
Descent, Part I – 3
Average: 3.06
Median: 3

S7
Descent, Part II – 2.5
Liaisons – 2.5
Interface – 2
Gambit, Part I – 3
Gambit, Part II – 3
Phantasms – 2.5
Dark Page – 2
Attached – 3
Force of Nature – 2
Inheritance – 3
Parallels – 4
The Pegasus – 4
Homeward – 2
Sub Rosa – 1
Lower Decks – 4
Thine Own Self – 3
Masks – 3
Eye of the Beholder – 3
Genesis – 3
Journey’s End – 3
Firstborn – 3
Bloodlines – 2.5
Emergence – 3
Preemptive Strike – 3.5
All Good Things – 4
Average: 2.90
Median: 3

Series Average: 2.896
Series Median: 3

Episodes I liked where I likely disagree with the general consensus and where the "unpopular opinion" kicks in:

"Lonely Among Us"
"Captain’s Holiday"
"Menage a Troi"
"The Loss"
"Qpid"
"True Q"
"Aquiel"
"Birthright, Part II"
"Suspicions"
"Masks"
"Genesis"

 

[Discofan]

Each time Picard makes one of his morality speeches, given the things he does himself "in good conscience", it sort of gets stuck in my throat.

 

[Krupp]

I really enjoyed military Trek. I don’t think there’s a conflict between having an idealistic society and a military to defend it from non-idealistic societies. Star Trek VI is probably my favourite portrayal of Starfleet. It shows multiracial Starfleet and even makes a joke of it with the gravity boots. But that ordered running of a starship is good to watch. You can contextualise it with later Starfleet in a less militarised world being more relaxed onboard its deep space mission ships ala Big D.

 

[Discofan]

...It shows multiracial Starfleet and even makes a joke of it with the gravity boots...

First multispecies is more accurate, second I don't think it was a joke on multispecies Starfleet. It was just a joke and not a particularly funny one.

 

[Krupp]

First multispecies is more accurate, second I don't think it was a joke on multispecies Starfleet. It was just a joke and not a particularly funny one.

I suppose multi species is correct - was thinking of race as in the original 6 movies and TOS and a lot of Star Trek of that era species and race would be used interchangeably, ala Klingon Doc Brown exhorting his men to act “for the preservation of our race.”

As to the joke, I always thought it was pretty funny, but I guess humour is each to their own. It was a good use of movie budget to introduce some inter species elements we wouldn’t usually see in the make up department that makes you consider some of the intricacies that only really the novels and more recent TV have shown us. I always thought the hand wave of having largely similar looking crews, ie lots of humans etc, made sense in the context of trying to find the right sized equipment for everyone. Imagine the ship is losing life support but you’re trying to figure out what breathers fits who in an emergency.

But we digress...

 

[Discofan]

I suppose multi species is correct - was thinking of race as in the original 6 movies and TOS and a lot of Star Trek of that era species and race would be used interchangeably, ala Klingon Doc Brown exhorting his men to act “for the preservation of our race.”

As to the joke, I always thought it was pretty funny, but I guess humour is each to their own. It was a good use of movie budget to introduce some inter species elements we wouldn’t usually see in the make up department that makes you consider some of the intricacies that only really the novels and more recent TV have shown us. I always thought the hand wave of having largely similar looking crews, ie lots of humans etc, made sense in the context of trying to find the right sized equipment for everyone. Imagine the ship is losing life support but you’re trying to figure out what breathers fits who in an emergency.

But we digress...

Including a Tholian in Starfleet would be quite a challenge!

Although they mention a Tholian ambassador on DS9.