Universal Translator Conumdrums as bad as temp. cause. loops)

So here's the deal: How does that Uni. Trans. know when the speaker needs to be heard in it's original language, for instance, the Doctor singing an aria in Italian? Picard singing frere jacques? Is there a button on this thing? *smacks it on the table twice.* I dunnae get it. Speaking of Scotty, shouldn't it all come out sounding like a Midwestern, white bread world?

 

according to TOS episode "Metamorphosis"
COCHRANE: What's the theory behind this device?
KIRK: There are certain universal ideas and concepts common to all intelligent life. This device instantaneously compares the frequency of brainwave patterns, selects those ideas and concepts it recognises, and then provides the necessary grammar.
SPOCK: Then it translates its findings into English.
COCHRANE: You mean it speaks?
KIRK: With a voice or the approximation of whatever the creature is on the sending end. Not one hundred percent efficient, but nothing ever is. Ready, Mister Spock?

So my guess is that when they speak with the intention of the listener hearing something in native language mode then it sends the sounds that way

 

It's especially whenever you have Worf or someone say a Klingon word, and then they instantly provide the translation of the word. Like on DS9, Worf says Gowron is protected by the Yan'isleth, which Dax then translates as "Brotherhood of the Sword." Why didn't the UT just kick in and have Worf say "Gowron is protected by the Brotherhood of the Sword"?

 

I've always wondered this as well. The UT seems to know when to translate and when not to translate, but I have no idea how it determines when to and when not to. For example, when Odo says, "Bon appetite" to Kira on the holosuite, shouldn't the UT translate that phrase?

 

I'm not convinced Worf knows a word of English. Belorussian, perhaps. But not English. And certainly Kira would take pride in not knowing the language of her new oppressors.

The corollary to that is that languages ought to be dead as a thing. If you use the UT with your colleagues, why not with your family? Why learn even your native language?

It would be pretty natural for the device to filter out cusswords, which is exactly what we also hear happen. But knowing what word is objectionable already requires the device to be rather well informed. The identifying of Phrases with capital P, such as "Bon appetit", would automatically follow.

Even easier are those cases where a single word or phrase is suddenly spoken in a different language. Surely the machine must realize this is for a reason? Thus, when Spock suddenly brings up a Vulcan expression such as pon farr, no attempt at translation is made. And conversely, when Kor, Koloth, Kang and Dax have banter between themselves in obvious Klingon and this gets translated to English for our benefit, a single sudden English word such as "Iceman" logically gets translated to Klingon instead.

Computers of the future aren't stupid. Heck, even the doors probably hold doctorates. Leaving the AI out of your shuttlecraft keys just isn't worth the hassle. Having it in your UT ought to be a yes-brainer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

It is kind of implied they're always using it in Voyager, specifically in The 37s. The Japanese guy comments "you all speak Japanese" to which Amelia Earhart's co-pilot says "sounds like you're speaking English." Janeway then explains the UT, pointing to her comm badge as she does so. Which I took to mean the UT is a built-in feature of the comm badge.

The theory kind of falls apart in scenes where no one has a comm badge, and DS9's Little Green Men makes clear Ferengi keep their UTs in their ears.

 

[Content removed at poster's request.]

 

Plot translator.

If they're on a ship then I'd assume it would be a feature in the internal comgrid. Elsewhere would get tricky, unless other races had implants like the Ferengi.

 

Language is a living thing in the sense that it grows and changes. When we talk about dead languages such as ancient Greek or Latin, this indicates that it no longer changes and is for study purposes only. So, when Spock says "pon farr", the language that the UT is using automatically adds it to its lexicon, I would guess. So pon farr becomes pon farr, even though the Vulcans would prefer it be kept secret. heh.

 

Because (I suppose) the UT also recognises the intention of the speaker, in this case that Worf wants to sound erm, awesomer or at least as someone who knows the ins and outs of Klingon culture. Or giving Dax the opportunity to show his friends that she knows

 

The UT is powered by plot particles.

 

Other VOY episodes like "Basics" further narrow it down, and suggest a multitier solution. With the badges on, our heroes can utilize their computing resources and learn new languages or access a vast database of known languages. The more demanding cases require the badges to make contact with broader resources still, usually the closest starship or the UFP internet-equivalent; these do the heavy lifting of deciphering truly alien languages or accessing truly obscure if known ones.

However, if the badges of the heroes become unstuck, it turns out they don't need no sticking badges to keep on conversing in English, even though in "Basics" it would be quite improbable for Neelix or the Kazon to have learned this language. This suggests that all the Feds additionally have implanted UTs. These just happen to be more limited machines, so that they are unable to translate the all-new caveman language in the episode. But they do French or Lower Plains Vulcan well enough.

An implanted device would make the best overall sense anyway: a clumsy microphone-computer-loudspeaker combo could serve as a "first aid", but something that intercepts language deeper down, beyond the sensors (eyes, ears) and the output devices (mouths etc.), is required to explain lipsync and fluency and so forth.

Timo Saloniemi

 

These gadgets must be among the most sophisticated devices ever invented.

First, they must be able to access the future (or at least, brainwaves), since they already patch through the request to the correct person when the name has not been spoken yet ("Data to Riker....") with no discernible delay.

Secondly they must be able to tap into entirely different universes as well, since frequently the UT does not only translate (and provide additional information) in a way fit for the direct participants of the conversation, but also for us as viewers who don't have all background knowledge that should be standard in-universe.

 

They'd be expected to - they are the cell phones of the future, after all.

How could we discern a delay even if one existed? The person calling and the person answering are never in the same frame, so

1) we never get to see whether the party at the receiving end really waited for the phrase to finish, or when the party at the sending end actually started speaking, so all sorts of combinations are possible, and
2) we have no reason to think the call was routed at all - for all we know, it went to everybody, and only Riker then answered. It is an official call, after all; making it shipwide would seem prudent, yet few such calls would be made in normal circumstances so we wouldn't overhear ones not directed at our specific hero characters.

So we have UTs in the feed into our TVs, too. Big deal.

Timo Saloniemi

 

But we do have examples in one frame such as
Data (on planet): Data to Riker
Riker (offscreen, immediately, with less than a half second delay): Riker here.

Which at least rules out the 'delay' theory.

Except that in 28 years' worth of seasons, to my knowledge we have never heard such a 'general call to a specific person' in the background, ignored by the character that is in focus at the moment.

So these devices are even able to project their existence into a universe where they don't exist as such. Makes them even more amazing!

 

But is a good example of how we can always insert one or the other of alternate interpretations. Here, we have no evidence that Riker heard the phase "Data to Riker"; he may just have heard a "Beeep!" noise, to which the retort "Riker Here" would be the correct one. And conversely, when we're with Riker, we may speculate Data spoke earlier and the comm system waited until connecting.

Again we have all our bases covered. If the character is with a group, the whole group hears the call, or at least we can assume they do. If the character is alone, he's usually alone for a reason, and may have set his cabin comms at "only emergency calls get through".

Naturally, even broad PAs would get intelligently narrowed down so that calls to the Chef wouldn't be routed to Engineering unless there were a reason to assume the Chef would be down there. The computer does know where the people within the ship are, after all. At least if they are wearing their badges, as in the context at hand.

Timo Saloniemi

 

If the Universal Translator is so all encompassing as it appears to be, even in Enterprise, then surely it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that Hoshi could discern what Porthos was saying ?
Or any lower life form for that matter.
I know, I'm putting my tin hat on waiting for the flak here

 

Odds are, though, that Porthos is saying "Woof, woof bloody woof!" even in direct translation... Barking and grunting works pretty well in human circles, too, when the needs are basic enough.

Timo Saloniemi

 

Possible, but unlikely. We never get to hear any such 'beep' on the receiving end and we do hear phrases like "Data to Riker" when we see only the receiving Riker. Or, again, that would have to be a case of the UT in our television sets

Again possible, but still still very coincidental we never ever see any direct evidence of that- which should be relatively common with all those bridge scenes. When was the last time you saw a scene focusing on e.g. Kim on the bridge doing something (or talking to someone), and simultaneously heard in the background a call e.g. 'Engineering to Janeway' (also on the bridge)?

On the other hand, there are examples of private commbadge conversations on the bridge (for example the The Cloud private exchange between Kim and Tuvok), but I'll grant that since they both already were on the bridge and still used their commbadges, the UT could have deduced that they apparently wanted a private conversation.