Unintentional continuity

[F. King Daniel]

Examples in TV/film Trek would be the "blond lab technician" that Kirk almost married according to "Where No Man..." perhaps being STII's Carol Marcus, or Archer IV from "Yesterday's Enterprise" being one of the planets named after the captain of the NX-01 according to "In a Mirror, Darkly".

What does Treklit have along these lines? Where can we maybe draw speculative lines between people and events that were never the authors' intention? There are a few name coincidences - is the Barclay from Crisis on Centaurus perhaps an ancestor of the TNG/VOY character? IIRC, there was a crewman named "Reed" in Vulcan's Glory, too.

One that came close was the novel Battle Lines having a similarity to one of the events described as happening to Voyager's Silver Blood duplicates in the episode "Course: Oblivion" - but the alien's names don't match up. Also, those aliens tried to recruit Voyager wheras the novel's aliens succeeded.

C'mon! Lets link some characters and events!

 

[Christopher]

I don't know about Vulcan's Glory, but there's a Reed in Final Frontier.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I'm sure I once heard somewhere (though I don't know if it's true) that the reference in SCE: Breakdowns to "sentient moss" as one of the many things which impersonates Starfleet officers was actually intended as a random joke on the part of the person saying it (Gomez?). Of course, in the Genesis Wave books sentient moss had actually done just that, meaning that if we place Breakdowns after The Genesis Wave (which I don't) then it's likely to be read as a serious comment not a joke. Again, I don't know if that's true; given that Breakdowns was released after the GW books and KRAD is big on continuity, I imagine it's more likely it was a deliberate reference?

As for unintended possible links, I like to make them out of fannish enthusiasm (I mentioned one once about Manraloth) but I can't think of any really solid examples at present.

That said, little details about various races and cultures often add up nicely and I'm never sure if the links were intentional or not. In Titan: The Red King, it's mentioned that Tiburonian funerals are to be held very soon after death, and in Warpath it's noted that a Tiburonian corpse is decomposing much quicker than those belonging to several other races, despite similiar environment. That seems to add up nicely, particularly as Tiburonians consume part of the dead (yes, in the modern era they cremate them and eat the ashes, but maybe in the past they just ate a bit of flesh and so needed to hold the funeral fast, before it rotted?) I don't know if the decomposing time was an intentional nod to the funeral customs, but it made me happy because it seemed to add up.

 

[David Mack]

I don't know if the decomposing time was an intentional nod to the funeral customs, but it made me happy because it seemed to add up.

Nope, that was an accident.

 

[ATimson]

I'm sure I once heard somewhere (though I don't know if it's true) that the reference in SCE: Breakdowns to "sentient moss" as one of the many things which impersonates Starfleet officers was actually intended as a random joke on the part of the person saying it (Gomez?). Of course, in the Genesis Wave books sentient moss had actually done just that, meaning that if we place Breakdowns after The Genesis Wave (which I don't) then it's likely to be read as a serious comment not a joke. Again, I don't know if that's true; given that Breakdowns was released after the GW books and KRAD is big on continuity, I imagine it's more likely it was a deliberate reference?

I had thought as you did, that it was intended as a reference to Genesis Wave, but KRAD confirmed either here on or Psi Phi that it actually wasn't intentional.

 

[Stevil2001]

Both A. C. Crispin and Bob Greenberger introduced alien races called the Carreons, and because Bob's book never physically describes them (I think you're supposed to assume they're generic humanoids), you can actually assume they're the same race if you want.

 

[Christopher]

Both A. C. Crispin and Bob Greenberger introduced alien races called the Carreons, and because Bob's book never physically describes them (I think you're supposed to assume they're generic humanoids), you can actually assume they're the same race if you want.

Actually you can't. I looked into doing that when I used the Doors into Chaos Carreon (the ones who are enemies with the Deltans) in Watching the Clock, but I couldn't make it work. The Carreon in in "Just Another Little Training Cruise..." (Crispin) are amphibian, but the Doors Carreon are hirsute and mammalian. The former are from the planet Carreon, the latter the planet Carrea. The former applied for UFP membership in the 2280s, the latter was hostile toward a UFP member world well into the 2370s. And there are cultural differences as well.

Besides, I elaborated on the description of the mammalian Carreon in WTC, as well as acknowledging the existence of two races of that name.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't know about Vulcan's Glory, but there's a Reed in Final Frontier.

That Reed is a Creole native of the West Indies, isn't he? Highly unlikely to be related to Malcolm.

 

[MichaelS]

Both A. C. Crispin and Bob Greenberger introduced alien races called the Carreons, and because Bob's book never physically describes them (I think you're supposed to assume they're generic humanoids), you can actually assume they're the same race if you want.

Actually you can't. I looked into doing that when I used the Doors into Chaos Carreon (the ones who are enemies with the Deltans) in Watching the Clock, but I couldn't make it work. The Carreon in in "Just Another Little Training Cruise..." (Crispin) are amphibian, but the Doors Carreon are hirsute and mammalian. The former are from the planet Carreon, the latter the planet Carrea. The former applied for UFP membership in the 2280s, the latter was hostile toward a UFP member world well into the 2370s. And there are cultural differences as well.

Besides, I elaborated on the description of the mammalian Carreon in WTC, as well as acknowledging the existence of two races of that name.

It seems to me that the only thing that prevents us from assuming they're the same species is their anatomy. (Are the DiC ones specified as mammalian? I only remember them from a few fight scenes with Deltan ships.) Anything else can be explained by a heterogeneous culture and by the fact that a century passed between the two stories.

 

[DimesDan]

I don't know about Vulcan's Glory, but there's a Reed in Final Frontier.

That Reed is a Creole native of the West Indies, isn't he? Highly unlikely to be related to Malcolm.

Why?

 

[Stevil2001]

Both A. C. Crispin and Bob Greenberger introduced alien races called the Carreons, and because Bob's book never physically describes them (I think you're supposed to assume they're generic humanoids), you can actually assume they're the same race if you want.

Actually you can't. I looked into doing that when I used the Doors into Chaos Carreon (the ones who are enemies with the Deltans) in Watching the Clock, but I couldn't make it work. The Carreon in in "Just Another Little Training Cruise..." (Crispin) are amphibian, but the Doors Carreon are hirsute and mammalian. The former are from the planet Carreon, the latter the planet Carrea. The former applied for UFP membership in the 2280s, the latter was hostile toward a UFP member world well into the 2370s. And there are cultural differences as well.

Besides, I elaborated on the description of the mammalian Carreon in WTC, as well as acknowledging the existence of two races of that name.

Ah. I reread Doors Into Chaos and "Just Another Little Training Cruise" when Michael and I worked up a pitch with the Carreons, but I don't remember the anatomical differences. It's possible I didn't read quite carefully enough; it was a pretty aggressive skim-read.

I think my idea at the time was that the 2280s Carreon membership application was rejected because they wouldn't back off from their antagonism to the Deltans.

 

[Sci]

I don't know about Vulcan's Glory, but there's a Reed in Final Frontier.

That Reed is a Creole native of the West Indies, isn't he? Highly unlikely to be related to Malcolm.

I'm an English American from Ohio, but my grandfather's granddaughter via a prior marriage is a French Canadian from Quebec. I see no particular reason the Reed family could not have some point have developed a Creole West Indies branch alongside its English U.K. branch.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Agreed, but since 'Reed' is a very common name, I would never even think to draw a parallel between those two Trek characters.

 

[Captain Robert April]

^ Probably safer that way.

 

[LutherSloan]

When was the last time there was any real reference to the events of the 'Genesis Wave' books? I think it's been awhile. I had forgotten about that for years.

 

[Christopher]

It seems to me that the only thing that prevents us from assuming they're the same species is their anatomy. (Are the DiC ones specified as mammalian? I only remember them from a few fight scenes with Deltan ships.) Anything else can be explained by a heterogeneous culture and by the fact that a century passed between the two stories.

Doors into Chaos's Carreon captain is described stroking his stubbly chin. The presence of hair probably indicates a mammalian biology. Moreover, in Articles of the Federation (p. 145), we're told that Carreon are susceptible to sexual arousal from Deltan pheromones, which pretty much confirms they must be humanoids and not amphibians (who would presumably have a very different form of sexuality).

The next page has a Carreon ambassador thinking of a former president in a portrait as "unusually tall for a human" and Bacco as small and frail, suggesting that he (and probably his species) is fairly large and bulky compared to the human norm. But the Carreons (note the different plural) in "Training Cruise" are "shoulder-high to the average human," small and slender of build.

Now, I did consider the possibility that Carreon/Carrea could be a planet with two indigenous species, one amphibian, one humanoid. But "Training Cruise" makes it quite explicit that the amphibian Carreons had literally no experience living among other species prior to the events of the story; the Carreon character Dr. Rrelthiz is the first of her species ever to do so. We also know that the humanoid Carreon had been in conflict with the Deltans since the mid-22nd century, whereas the amphibian Carreons are repeatedly described as having been isolated prior to their first contact with the Federation, which to all indications was not too long before the early-2280s timeframe of the story, since aliens are still very new to them.

So I concluded that they had to be two different species from two separate worlds, with the name similarity just coincidental (but not exact -- Carreons from Carreon vs. Carreon from Carrea). And since I explicitly stated that in Watching the Clock, I guess it's official now.

When was the last time there was any real reference to the events of the 'Genesis Wave' books? I think it's been awhile. I had forgotten about that for years.

I believe Dulmur alluded to it in Ch. I of Watching the Clock as one of the disasters the UFP had endured in recent years.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

When was the last time there was any real reference to the events of the 'Genesis Wave' books? I think it's been awhile. I had forgotten about that for years.

The G Wave actually gets mentioned quite a lot. I suppose it depends what you mean by "real", but the mainstream continuity definitely acknowledges that Genesis Wave books one and two happened, though three is of course incompatible.

A Time to Sow and A Time to Harvest mention the Wave several times, first as one of the Federation's recent traumas alongside the Dominion War, and then when Geordi thinks back to his experiences with the wave when contemplating terraforming. So that's a reference to the actual events of the novel, not just "something called the Genesis Wave happened".

In A Time to Love and A Time to Hate, ongoing relief efforts to the "so-called Genesis Sector" are mentioned alongside relief efforts to Cardassia.

A Time for War, A Time to Peace refers to Genesis Force twice, when Alexander recalls his mission to Aluwna and when Worf does the same. The two books don't 100% agree on certain details of Alexander's character, but the events of Genesis Force certainly "happened", and this builds on the earlier "A Time to" references to GW mentioned above. And Bacco's campaign staff refer to the Wave too, as one of the many disasters that occured under Zife.

A Time to Kill, Articles of the Federation, DTI:Watching the Clock and Indistinguishable From Magic all give a nod to the G Wave books - ATtK and AotF mention it also as one of the string of disasters during Zife's term, in WtC Dulmur references it along with the Dominion and Borg conflicts, and in IFM Geordi briefly thinks about how he last saw Leah Brahms during the events of Genesis, etc.

PS: Of course, there are a fair few little hiccups in GW/mainstream continuity that I just overlook - Tomalak shows up in GW and chats snarkily with Picard, but in Vulcan's Soul: Epiphanies, it's implied strongly - almost stated outright - that Picard hasn't seen him in years. But that's just one of those minor points I "edit out" of my personal appreciation of the Trek novels. Like how the Gateways series is always mentioned and is clearly part of the mainstream's "history" despite giving Martok's father a name that isn't Urthog (because Martok wasn't King Arthur yet).

 

[David Mack]

When was the last time there was any real reference to the events of the 'Genesis Wave' books? I think it's been awhile. I had forgotten about that for years.

Well, it's not a reference to the events, but the "top secret report" in Chapter 14 of book one of TGW includes a section by a character who became a prominent supporting player in the Vanguard saga — Stephen Klisiewicz (who was a commander when he wrote his report on the Genesis Device, but an ensign and lieutenant during Vanguard).

 

[ryan123450]

The G Wave actually gets mentioned quite a lot. I suppose it depends what you mean by "real", but the mainstream continuity definitely acknowledges that Genesis Wave books one and two happened, though three is of course incompatible.

Been a while since I read these. What makes Book 3 incompatible?

 

[ATimson]

Been a while since I read these. What makes Book 3 incompatible?

Among other things, Ogawa's kid. And I think there's some incompatible stuff regarding Worf and/or Alexander, though that may actually be in book 4 not 3.