uniforms and rank?

[kalskylander]

was uss even in the first show?

 

[6079SmithW]

was uss even in the first show?

Yes. It was present in the pilot. There were also ships with an S.S. prefix, which I think meant it was non-starfleet. In the Enterprise era they didn't even have prefixes and it was just "Enterprise."

 

[The Wormhole]

was uss even in the first show?

Yes, though there they called said it stood for United Spaceship.

I can't think of exactly when, but the meaning was eventually changed to Starship.

 

[BillJ]

What does USS stand for?

United Starship

Which, in all honesty, is very silly. Federation starships really ought to have the prefix F.S.S. ("Federation Starship") rather than U.S.S.. Putting U.S.S. there is just a wink and a nod to the idea of American-centrism in a show supposedly about a Federation of many different worlds.

Really reaching for something to complain about here. It is an American show made for American audiences.

 

[neozeks]

That has never been canonically established, and it's faintly ridiculous.. It's never standard practice to put the full name of a state in a ship prefix -- you don't hear about the United States of America Ship Abraham Lincoln, you hear about the United States Ship Abraham Lincoln.

Well, then it's the United Federation Star Ship. Yeah, I know it's a noncanonical retcon and it should then supposedly be UFS(S) but I can live with it.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It seems as if "the Starship Enterprise" is the formal name of the vessel--"the Federation Starship Enterprise" if you want to get really formal--with other variations being used that have described the ship's precise planet of origin, IMO.

In ENT, there was a monitor shot in the episode "Divergence" in which the NX-01 was clearly listed as "U.S.S. Enterprise" and the NX-02 as "U.S.S. Columbia." Other than a gaff by ENT's art department, it may have been a case that it wasn't Starfleet practice at the time to place the "U.S.S." designation on their hulls or include it as part of the ship's official name.

But "United Space Ship" and "United Star Ship" have both been used for the "U.S.S." designation in TOS. To make sure that it remains unclear if it's truly one or the other, they kind of went back and forth with them both...

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

That has never been canonically established, and it's faintly ridiculous.. It's never standard practice to put the full name of a state in a ship prefix -- you don't hear about the United States of America Ship Abraham Lincoln, you hear about the United States Ship Abraham Lincoln.

Isn't "United States" just short for "United States of America"?

dJE

Yes.

 

[T'Girl]

In TMP, when Kirk na Scotty were docking the travel pod to the ship, didn't the marking on either side of the docking pork say "Starship" on the left and "Enterprise" on the right, for Starship Enterprise. No United or USS in evidence.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^^^
The airlock the travel pod docked to had "NCC-1701" on one side and "Enterprise" on the other, IIRC.

But the huge red pennant on both sides of the engineering hull (with the Enterprise arrowhead) had "Starship U.S.S. Enterprise United Federation of Planets NCC-1701."

(emphasis due to big block lettering)

 

[kalskylander]

Interesting, been around that long and still some debate.

 

[T'Girl]

Well, I got a piece of it right.

 

[Sci]

That has never been canonically established, and it's faintly ridiculous.. It's never standard practice to put the full name of a state in a ship prefix -- you don't hear about the United States of America Ship Abraham Lincoln, you hear about the United States Ship Abraham Lincoln.

Isn't "United States" just short for "United States of America"?

dJE

Yes, but it's not an acronym. It's an official term for the United States of America. Thus, the full formal name of the aircraft carrier is "United States Ship Abraham Lincoln," not "United States of America Ship Abraham Lincoln." And certainly no state would use an adjective in their full formal name as the short form the way "United" supposedly is being used in the place of "United Federation of Planets."

United Starship

Which, in all honesty, is very silly. Federation starships really ought to have the prefix F.S.S. ("Federation Starship") rather than U.S.S.. Putting U.S.S. there is just a wink and a nod to the idea of American-centrism in a show supposedly about a Federation of many different worlds.

Really reaching for something to complain about here. It is an American show made for American audiences.

It's not a huge deal, it's just a minor thing. But it does bug me. A show about a United Federation of Planets shouldn't be implicitly endorsing the domination of one sub-culture over another; it should be about equality.

It seems as if "the Starship Enterprise" is the formal name of the vessel--"the Federation Starship Enterprise" if you want to get really formal

Exactly. And just like the full formal name "United States Ship Abraham Lincoln" is shortened to "U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln," the full formal name "Federation Starship Enterprise" should be shortened to "F.S.S. Enterprise."

In ENT, there was a monitor shot in the episode "Divergence" in which the NX-01 was clearly listed as "U.S.S. Enterprise" and the NX-02 as "U.S.S. Columbia." Other than a gaff by ENT's art department, it may have been a case that it wasn't Starfleet practice at the time to place the "U.S.S." designation on their hulls or include it as part of the ship's official name.

I'd just ignore it as a gaffe. Besides, if the NX-01 were to be called anything, you'd think it would be called "U.E.S. Enterprise" -- "United Earth Starship Enterprise."

 

[C.E. Evans]

It seems as if "the Starship Enterprise" is the formal name of the vessel--"the Federation Starship Enterprise" if you want to get really formal

Exactly. And just like the full formal name "United States Ship Abraham Lincoln" is shortened to "U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln," the full formal name "Federation Starship Enterprise" should be shortened to "F.S.S. Enterprise."

But I think "United Space Ship Enterprise" works just fine--I also believe that the "U.S.S." designation was a deliberate homage to the ships from the United States as Starfleet was likely founded there...

In ENT, there was a monitor shot in the episode "Divergence" in which the NX-01 was clearly listed as "U.S.S. Enterprise" and the NX-02 as "U.S.S. Columbia." Other than a gaff by ENT's art department, it may have been a case that it wasn't Starfleet practice at the time to place the "U.S.S." designation on their hulls or include it as part of the ship's official name.

I'd just ignore it as a gaffe. Besides, if the NX-01 were to be called anything, you'd think it would be called "U.E.S. Enterprise" -- "United Earth Starship Enterprise."

Personally, I would have simply went with S.S. Enterprise--"Space Ship Enterprise"--with the idea that a starship was a special type of spaceship.

 

[MarianLH]

Exactly. And just like the full formal name "United States Ship Abraham Lincoln" is shortened to "U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln," the full formal name "Federation Starship Enterprise" should be shortened to "F.S.S. Enterprise."

As long as we're entertaining retcons, howabout UFS (United Federation Starship)? Or FPS (Federation of Planets Starship)? Or even FS or UFPS? No rule that it has to be three letters.


Marian

 

[scotpens]

was uss even in the first show?

Yes, though there they called said it stood for United Spaceship.

I can't think of exactly when, but the meaning was eventually changed to Starship.

I always thought it stood for “United Space Ship” -- meaning space is united, not the ship. Not that it makes a whole lot more sense. Does the Federation encompass the entire universe?

The airlock the travel pod docked to had "NCC-1701" on one side and "Enterprise" on the other, IIRC.

But the huge red pennant on both sides of the engineering hull (with the Enterprise arrowhead) had "Starship U.S.S. Enterprise United Federation of Planets NCC-1701."

And, of course, all incarnations of the ship, from TOS through Enterprise-E, have “U.S.S. ENTERPRISE” in big block letters on the upper surface of the saucer.

Isn't "United States" just short for "United States of America"?

Yes, but it's not an acronym. It's an official term for the United States of America.

Do you mean, “it’s not an abbreviation”? The designations “US” and “USS” would be acronyms — if they were pronounced like the pronoun “us.”

As for the America-centric thing, the original show was made in the 1960s. In America. Just the idea of a unified future Earth was a tough enough sell. By the time the United Federation of Planets was first mentioned, in the episode “A Taste of Armageddon,” the U.S.S. designation had been attached to the name Enterprise for two pilots and 20 production episodes. Why change it?

 

[Sector 7]

Interesting, been around that long and still some debate.

Welcome to TrekBBS where even the most minor of minutiae are endlessly debated without concrete conclusion.

 

[scotpens]

^^ If we didn’t endlessly debate the most minor of minutiae, we’d all have to turn in our geek badges!

 

[AstroSmurf]

^ And this board would cease to exist.

 

[J.T.B.]

Do you mean, “it’s not an abbreviation”? The designations “US” and “USS” would be acronyms — if they were pronounced like the pronoun “us.”

According to some sources "U.S.S." would be an acronym, but the more prevalent term is "initialism." Both are abbreviations.

^^ If we didn’t endlessly debate the most minor of minutiae, we’d all have to turn in our geek badges!

Yeah, jeez, even linguistic terminology!

--Justin

 

[C.E. Evans]

was uss even in the first show?

Yes, though there they called said it stood for United Spaceship.

I can't think of exactly when, but the meaning was eventually changed to Starship.

I always thought it stood for “United Space Ship” -- meaning space is united, not the ship. Not that it makes a whole lot more sense. Does the Federation encompass the entire universe?

I think it would refer to the ship coming from a united government or society rather than a civilian- or privately-run group. I would argue that the "S.S." designation was given to non-Starfleet vessels.

The airlock the travel pod docked to had "NCC-1701" on one side and "Enterprise" on the other, IIRC.

But the huge red pennant on both sides of the engineering hull (with the Enterprise arrowhead) had "Starship U.S.S. Enterprise United Federation of Planets NCC-1701."

And, of course, all incarnations of the ship, from TOS through Enterprise-E, have “U.S.S. ENTERPRISE” in big block letters on the upper surface of the saucer.

That's how we visually know the ship is the U.S.S. Enterprise.