Uniform Confirmation from Trekmovie.com

[cultcross]

In fact, in the remastered versions of the episodes the "gold" tunics are identifiably avocado green.

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x14/balanceofterror070.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd033.jpg

Was that sarcasm?

No, he's right. The second picture is the remastered print, while the first is the DVD caps.

Although the lights are casting a yellow tint to the shirts, the restoration of the print shows us what they looked like as filmed in '66, prior to 40 years of wear and aging.

After all, why are many fan films (including Exeter and New Voyages/Phase II) now using green costumes? Because that's what Theiss used. If you dig through the set photos on NV's site, you can see the command shirts change color in different lighting, from a mustard gold to a very distinct green.

Using gold may have been a creative choice, or perhaps JJ didn't know. In any case, the originals are green.

The original fabric of the costumes was green, I'm not disputing that, it's one of those random trivia facts that Trek fans worth their salt know (and incidentally, the movie audience at large will not know), I was disputing in that post that either of the links Polaris posted looked even remotely 'avocado green'. Unless my eyes are broken, they are pretty obviously mustard gold, as filmed and aired.
Besides, whatever colour the actual fabric of the costumes was in the 60's, it's been well established on screen (dare I say canonically) that the in-universe colour is gold.

SISKO:In the old days, operations officers wore red, command officers wore gold, and --

I don't think it's much a stretch for JJ to carry on using gold, and I think it would be avery very bad idea for him to buck the expectation by suddenly having Kirk etc on green.

 

[Squiggy]

If they were always gold on film, then why are the remastered prints coming up green, and matching restored film clips and cast photos from the series?

Check out startrekhistory.com for restored film clips.

Since I wasn't around in the 60s to see this in first run, I must defer to the elder statesmen of Star Trek, but looking at the restored footage, I don't see green.

To help us all with what is apparently a holocaust-level tragedy (mini-Godwin'd), here is some restored footage with a "green-scale" to show everyone what green is.

I see no green.

Unless my eyes are broken, they are pretty obviously mustard gold, as filmed and aired.

That's a good point. Canon is what we were shown, not what was in the studio. If the later was the case then Spock was human and the Enterprise consists of 6-7 rooms on a sound stage.

 

[USS Mariner]

If they were always gold on film, then why are the remastered prints coming up green, and matching restored film clips and cast photos from the series?

Check out startrekhistory.com for restored film clips.

Since I wasn't around in the 60s to see this in first run, I must defer to the elder statesmen of Star Trek, but looking at the restored footage, I don't see green.

To help us all with what is apparently a holocaust-level tragedy (mini-Godwin'd), here is some restored footage with a "green-scale" to show everyone what green is.

I see no green.

This is going to be a great conversation.

How about using material from the rest of the fucking site, instead of the earliest and worst example of restoration? The front page really hasn't been touched much since Curt put it up a few years ago.

Let's take a look at other clips, like the clip from "Shore Leave," at the bottom of this page.

Or how a bout a clip from the same fucking scene as your example?

Dig for yourself and you'll see that they're more yellow under studio lighting than outside. Also, the earlier, velour tunics seem to change color more than the third-season nylons.

I'll admit, they aren't exactly avocado, but they're definitely a sort of pale, yellow-green mix.

I don't think it's much a stretch for JJ to carry on using gold, and I think it would be avery very bad idea for him to buck the expectation by suddenly having Kirk etc on green.

This is more than likely the reason. No biggie. They can wear pasties as long as the story and acting isn't more of the vogue sci-trash that we've been force-fed by most of Hollywood for the past few years.

 

[Jon1701]

Doesn't matter what colour it was on the set - it came out gold. For 40 years it's been gold. Gold for command. Gold.

Kirk had a green tunic that was wraparound. That was green.

I understand your point, USS Mariner, I do - but regardless of what colour the fabric was when they shot it - its always been gold.

 

[Squiggy]

This is going to be a great conversation.

How about using material from the rest of the fucking site, instead of the earliest and worst example of restoration? The front page really hasn't been touched much since Curt put it up a few years ago.

Let's take a look at other clips, like the clip from "Shore Leave," at the bottom of this page.

Or how a bout a clip from the same fucking scene as your example?

Yes...I'M the one that bringing the level of civility down in the conversation.

 

[EyalM]

This debate seems rather futile. Most (=99.9%) people remember the TOS uniforms as gold, red and blue so it is only logical to use those colors in a new production.

 

[USS Mariner]

This debate seems rather futile. Most (=99.9%) people remember the TOS uniforms as gold, red and blue so it is only logical to use those colors in a new production.

Doesn't matter what colour it was on the set - it came out gold. For 40 years it's been gold. Gold for command. Gold.

Kirk had a green tunic that was wraparound. That was green.

I understand your point, USS Mariner, I do - but regardless of what colour the fabric was when they shot it - its always been gold.

I said that earlier. It would be a stupid move for JJ to make uniforms so close to the "classic" look, using the actual green, and end up with complaints accusing him of "altering history."

Complaints coming from, of course, purists and canon-freaks.

 

[USS Mariner]

This is going to be a great conversation.

How about using material from the rest of the fucking site, instead of the earliest and worst example of restoration? The front page really hasn't been touched much since Curt put it up a few years ago.

Let's take a look at other clips, like the clip from "Shore Leave," at the bottom of this page.

Or how a bout a clip from the same fucking scene as your example?

Yes...I'M the one that bringing the level of civility down in the conversation.

When someone gives you resources for a debate, you're supposed to examine them fully, not look at the first picture and throw the rest into the garbage.

It wouldn't be as annoying if you didn't pull this crap all the time.

 

[M'Sharak]

*ahem*

I watched Star Trek on the original run. The pullover tunic Kirk wore was gold. On screen. His wraparound v-neck was green. On screen. His dress uniform tunic was a different shade of green. They were never the same color on screen -- not then... and not after xx number of years of aging the media.

klingongoat: The color of guitars was just used as an example of the sort of things which happened with colors when you put them on television in that time and of the sort of measures which were taken to ensure that what was seen on screen fit was what was originally conceived, or to counteract technical glitches caused by sensitivity of the equipment to certain colors. It was not intended to have any particular relevance to shirts or fabrics other than that.

I had thought it would make a good illustration because the color was called "television white"; clearly, I was mistaken in this. I apologize for the oversight.

 

[Brian]

This is going to be a great conversation.

How about using material from the rest of the fucking site, instead of the earliest and worst example of restoration? The front page really hasn't been touched much since Curt put it up a few years ago.

Let's take a look at other clips, like the clip from "Shore Leave," at the bottom of this page.

Or how a bout a clip from the same fucking scene as your example?

Yes...I'M the one that bringing the level of civility down in the conversation.

When someone gives you resources for a debate, you're supposed to examine them fully, not look at the first picture and throw the rest into the garbage.

It wouldn't be as annoying if you didn't pull this crap all the time.

I looked at the two pages linked, and the command tunic looks gold in them to me. There may be a greenish tint, but compared with the surrounding actual green (e.g., plants), it's definitely more gold than green. It's certainly not avocado.

Maybe they went with a greenish-gold rather than gold-gold because on camera gold-gold velour would wash out to yellow? If they really meant for it to broadcast as green, they certainly could have done so. There were plenty of other green costumes over the course of the series that came out as exactly that on-screen.

Another item supporting the idea that the intent was gold rather than green... the mirror universe. All of the uniforms in the mirror universe, though different in cut and style, were the same color as those in "our" universe (i.e., our Uhura and their Uhura both wore red, our Spock and theirs both wore blue). And in the mirror universe, Captain Kirk most definitely wore gold.

And merchandising. Did they ever release a Captain Kirk action figure with a green tunic?

 

[Jack Bauer]

It wasn't until the remastered version started airing that I saw that the gold was actually more of a green. In my 30 years of watching TOS it always looked gold. After the remastered aired I found out that the uniforms were actually green. I never came across it in reading about TOS so I was quite surprised.

 

[Timewalker]

If the TOS uniforms were supposed to be green but turned out gold, they should have PAINTED THEM GREENER!

 

[Dale]

This conversation has gone on for three pages now without being resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Now that's gold.

 

[Brian]

No, it's green.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

The color of guitars was just used as an example of the sort of things which happened with colors when you put them on television in that time and of the sort of measures which were taken to ensure that what was seen on screen fit was what was originally conceived, or to counteract technical glitches caused by sensitivity of the equipment to certain colors.

Likewise, Brent Spiner was painted green to play Data with a pale gold face. Elizabeth Taylor was also painted green to make her appear especially white and pale in Cleopatra. Not too dissimilar, anyone who has taken a basic photography class knows not to shoot under florescent lights. They turn you green. Photography is an imperfect translation, but a professional photographer knows how to manipulate colors to gain a desired effect. The end result is what matters. Shatner wore green. Kirk wore gold. The Enterprise is a giant ship in space, not a good sized prop in a warehouse. The illusion is brought to us by talented and experienced technicians and is completely intentional. If they wanted the shirt to look green, they'd have caught it's appearance in color tests and told wardrobe to change it.

 

[cbp44189]

The color of guitars was just used as an example of the sort of things which happened with colors when you put them on television in that time and of the sort of measures which were taken to ensure that what was seen on screen fit was what was originally conceived, or to counteract technical glitches caused by sensitivity of the equipment to certain colors.

Likewise, Brent Spiner was painted green to play Data with a pale gold face. Elizabeth Taylor was also painted green to make her appear especially white and pale in Cleopatra. Not too dissimilar, anyone who has taken a basic photography class knows not to shoot under florescent lights. They turn you green. Photography is an imperfect translation, but a professional photographer knows how to manipulate colors to gain a desired effect. The end result is what matters. Shatner wore green. Kirk wore gold. The Enterprise is a giant ship in space, not a good sized prop in a warehouse. The illusion is brought to us by talented and experienced technicians and is completely intentional. If they wanted the shirt to look green, they'd have caught it's appearance in color tests and told wardrobe to chnge it.

Agreed.

 

[Michael]

The color of guitars was just used as an example of the sort of things which happened with colors when you put them on television in that time and of the sort of measures which were taken to ensure that what was seen on screen fit was what was originally conceived, or to counteract technical glitches caused by sensitivity of the equipment to certain colors.

Likewise, Brent Spiner was painted green to play Data with a pale gold face. Elizabeth Taylor was also painted green to make her appear especially white and pale in Cleopatra. Not too dissimilar, anyone who has taken a basic photography class knows not to shoot under florescent lights. They turn you green. Photography is an imperfect translation, but a professional photographer knows how to manipulate colors to gain a desired effect. The end result is what matters. Shatner wore green. Kirk wore gold. The Enterprise is a giant ship in space, not a good sized prop in a warehouse. The illusion is brought to us by talented and experienced technicians and is completely intentional. If they wanted the shirt to look green, they'd have caught it's appearance in color tests and told wardrobe to change it.

Stop making sense!

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Sorry.

 

[Sector 7]

*ahem*

I watched Star Trek on the original run. The pullover tunic Kirk wore was gold. On screen. His wraparound v-neck was green. On screen. His dress uniform tunic was a different shade of green. They were never the same color on screen -- not then... and not after xx number of years of aging the media.

klingongoat: The color of guitars was just used as an example of the sort of things which happened with colors when you put them on television in that time and of the sort of measures which were taken to ensure that what was seen on screen fit was what was originally conceived, or to counteract technical glitches caused by sensitivity of the equipment to certain colors. It was not intended to have any particular relevance to shirts or fabrics other than that.

I had thought it would make a good illustration because the color was called "television white"; clearly, I was mistaken in this. I apologize for the oversight.

It was GREY dammit!! Us poor kids who watched it on 13" black & white televisions saw GREY!!!
Actually, I'm seeing things I never knew now that I'm watching the TOS-R episodes in HD on www.startrek.com. Thank you, CBS.
Like the 3 colors in WNMHGB... avacado green for command, blue for sciences, tan for everything else. It's amazing what you see in HD.

Also, one of the reasons Kennedy beat Nixon in the 1960 televised debates: Kennedy's people understood how colors showed up on a TV, so they had him wear a light blue shirt which came out white compared to Nixon's white shirt which came out grey (dirty white). (I knew college history had some practical use!)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Who says the wraparound and dress tunic were supposed to be the same color as the standard duty shirt?

The wraparound was wool, the dress tunic had a satin sheen, and the original duty tunic was velour. Each of those fabrics will bounce the light differently. The original green velour used had an unusual sheen to it. Brush the fuzz one way and it's avocado flesh green, brush it the other way and it's more gold. (My grandmother had some red velour cushions that often photographed brown in photos, and suddenly looked like they didn't match the rest of the room.)

Studio lights (and the lights used to do stills) play many tricks. The blue happened to photograph in similar tones for both the duty and dress uniforms. Ditto the red. However, notice how the sciences insignia patch often photographed as silver (reflecting light from the blue uniform) where the engineering insignia patch always photographed as gold.

Similarly, even though they always used the same gold flecks on Brent Spiner's Data makeup in TNG, he photographed as silvery in the TV episodes and more golden in the movies. Simply the differences between TV and movie lighting, and video vs film stock.

After the debacle of the TOS velour uniforms shrinking (all the time), they did settle on a different fabric, and this one ended up being custom-dyed more of a mustard than avocado, to attempt to make the shirts appear the same as the old ones had been photographing. But it's a weird "is-it-green-or-gold" colour anyway. By then, the colour match had also moved a long way away from the green fabrics chosen to be the wraparound and the dress uniforms. The remastered footage is interesting to watch, and you can track the command shirts under various lights and angles. They do seem to switch from green to gold, and back again, in any given scene.

Incidentally, I have a "Uniform Card" from ENT's fourth season: Scott Bakula in a green TOS wraparound tunic from "In a Mirror, Darkly" but the swatch of fabric preserved in the card looks more mustard than green in real life, a reverse of the old conundrum.