Unforgivable Trek errors by writers..

[thribs]

That you can get from Earth to Qo’noS in under 5 minutes

 

[Prax]

What episode is that from?

 

[Paul Weaver]

They basically told Picard not to use the "might is right" approach. They begged Picard not to flout their laws because it would threaten everything they respected.

It’s great. It shows that federation ideals aren’t absolute and people are human.

It would have been interesting to refer to it in latter prime directive episodes like Pen Pals or Homeward, or even have Picard admit he was doing something hypocritical.

Alternatively it could have been Ensign Ricky on trial, and Picard makes the choice to leave him to die for the prime directive.

Either option would have been better.

 

[Farscape One]

In "The Drumhead", Admiral Satie says, while Picard is on the stand, that he violated the Prime Directive a number of times. I always thought of it as a cursory way of recalling that event.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

a) Avada Kedavra
b) Crucio
c) Imperio

 

[Tenacity]

What episode is that from?

I believe Into Darkness.

 

[Paul Weaver]

What was in that penalty zone anyway, forbidden fruit?

Wesley was indignant in the penalty box. Yar cried on the bridge.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I believe Into Darkness.

I believe most of Star Trek

 

[Boris Skrbic]

Most of Star Trek never had a problem with the speed of plot.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Into Darkness and Enterprise seem to back each other fairly well, if anything it's Enterprise that's too short.

However Enterprise also said "Neptune and back in 6 minutes", putting NX01 at 45 billion kph, or 40 times the speed of light. That puts the Klingon homeworld a mere 6 light months from earth, or 30k AU -- somewhere in the Oort Cloud.

Clearly the speed of Warp varies depending on where the ship is. "Vulcan starcharts" may include passages of space where warp runs far faster than it does in the vicinity of Earth. In uncharted locations like off to the Gamma and Delta quadrants you're running at normal speed, but for pottering around known space (including in the local vicinity of voyager on occasion) it's clear there are shortcuts

 

[ToyBoxComix]

Interpretations of the Prime Directive vary from episode to episode. Picard decided to violate the Prime Directive in order to save Wesley's life. In contrast, in "Homeward" (and I had to look up the episode title), he was willing to let a civilization die in order to uphold the PD. Relating back to Enterprise's "Observer Effect" as mentioned earlier in the thread, where such a level of non-interference was decided by the Organians to be a bad idea.

Sometimes it's best to not nail things down too specifically because it becomes a hindrance to storytelling. How long does it take to get from Earth to Qo'noS? Eh, you know, a while. Just insert some scenes that indicate some passing of time and it's fine. Into Darkness definitely does not indicate some passing of time. J.J. Abrans consistently seems to not understand that space is big.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Into Darkness definitely does not indicate some passing of time. J.J. Abrans consistently seems to not understand that space is big.

Also see Earth-Vulcan in ST09, although that seems to hinge of Chekov's "we have reached maximum velocity", and can be handwaved away to still provide a multi-hour gap in the one gap in the scene (when Kirk's unconcious)

 

[ToyBoxComix]

Also see Earth-Vulcan in ST09, although that seems to hinge of Chekov's "we have reached maximum velocity", and can be handwaved away to still provide a multi-hour gap in the one gap in the scene (when Kirk's unconcious)

And the fact that Spock can watch Vulcan implode with his bare eyes from Delta Vega. And whatever the hell Scotty did to beam himself and Kirk from Delta Vega onto the Enterprise at warp.

Also some stuff from The Force Awakens, but that's for a different forum.

 

[Paul Weaver]

And whatever the hell Scotty did to beam himself and Kirk from Delta Vega onto the Enterprise at warp.

Similar technology that Bok used in Bloodlines, Eris used in Search Part I, or Kira and Dukat used in Covenant, which could well have stemmed from Scotty's research post Relics, which Spock could well have known about (keeping tabs on old shipmates - like how Picard in the alternate AGT future had read Geordi's latest book)

Certainly not unforgivable

 

[arch101]

I believe most of Star Trek

According to this chart, Voyager was NUTS not to have headed for the Gamma Quadrant end of the Bajoran Wormhole. Looks like a MUCH shorter ride than the direct route.

 

[Paul Weaver]

According to this chart, Voyager was NUTS not to have headed for the Gamma Quadrant end of the Bajoran Wormhole. Looks like a MUCH shorter ride than the direct route.

They could have turned up, battled through a massive Dominon fleet, and got to the wormhole just at the end of "Sacrifice of Angels"

Or maybe get through and be obliterated by the self replicating minefield

Oops.

 

[DonIago]

Or get to where the wormhole should be only to discover it's not there. I'm sure that would have been great for morale.

How many times was the wormhole compromised in only seven years?

 

[Kor]

They could have turned up, battled through a massive Dominon fleet, and got to the wormhole just at the end of "Sacrifice of Angels"

Or maybe get through and be obliterated by the self replicating minefield

Oops.

Well, by the time they got to the GQ end of the Wormhole, it would probably be about thirty-something years after the Dominion War ended.

Kor

 

[MAGolding]

Regarding Justice, I think the problem is how god damned stupid a law like that is to begin with and how not believable it is for it to effectively end crime.

It’s a clear cut case of basic right and wrong being a higher moral imperative than following the law. Similar to protecting people in your attic during the holocaust.

I don’t see any moral quandary in Dear Doctor either. Judging your current actions against all possible butterfly effect long term consequences is absurd. They applied contrived shallow sophistry to justify allowing a mass extinction.

At the beginning of the episode Yar said she had reviewed the Edo laws and they seemed reasonable to her. And thus the planet was deemed safe for shore leave.

The Nitpicker's Guide said that obviously Yar hadn't asked about the penalties for breaking the laws, or she would have found that they had the death penalty for everything. And that would have discouraged crew members from the Federation from wanting to go on shore leave at a planet where there was even a one in a million chance they might be falsely accused of a crime and executed.

And I have to think that Yar could not possibly have read the entire legal code of the planet because she couldn't possibly have done so in the time available if so many things were against the law that a random act of clumsiness was a crime under some circumstances.

THe simple fact is, the Edoans had no right to execute Wesley, since he was an alien. They have no jurisdiction over him.

Picard, OTOH, was well within his rights to intervene and save Wesley's life, because a ship's captain is responsible for the lives of everyone on board the ship. Wes may not have been a member of the crew - at least not at that time - but Picard still had the right (and indeed, the responsibility) to do whatever it takes to save his life.

Wesley and the landing party were physically within the jurisdiction of the Edo, so the Edos had jurisdiction over them while they were physically on the planet.

Wesley broke their law, and the Edos were merely following their law. The Edos had every right to enforce their laws against Wesley, the law breaker. One of the points that the Edos made was that ignorance of the law was not an excuse. Tough luck, Wesley. That's the risk Starfleet personnel take when they go to an alien planet.

And what about the sacred Prime Directive? I didn't make up the rules. The Prime Directive is a rule Starfleet created and imposed on themselves. Either it means what it means; or if it is to be ignored whenever it is not convenient, then it is meaningless and it becomes a joke.

Whether or not the death penalty seemed outrageous, for the crime that Wesley committed, is almost besides the point. Picard took an oath to follow the Prime Directive. Then follow it. According to the PD, Picard should not have interfered in the Edo's cultural ways. Picard even admitted that he would be violating the PD if he saved Wesley. Who exactly had the moral high ground?

At the end, Picard made the argument, or really he lectured the Edos that the Edos had an obligation to make an exception to their rule. What BS, imho. Picard tried to present himself as the principled one when he was the one violating principles. That was one of the things that disgusted me.


I was surprised that the writers wrote this story the way that they did.


The Edos pleaded with Picard to not jail break Wesley. They acknowledged that Picard and Starfleet had the power to snatch away Wesley from their justice. They acknowledged that they were the weaker party, not in the moral sense, but in the power sense.

They basically told Picard not to use the "might is right" approach. They begged Picard not to flout their laws because it would threaten everything they respected.

I think that it would be very wise for members of less advanced and powerful societies to grant extraterritoriality to members of more advanced societies. And especially for societies that don't have interstellar travel to grant extraterritoriality to visitors from other star systems who are much more powerful than them.

It would be reasonable to calculate that the average interstellar starship would be many times for powerful than the average planet or even the average solar system, that isn't advanced enough for interstellar travel. It is reasonable to assume that every interstellar ship that visits one's home system is capable to destroying one's entire civilization, and so be very careful not to antagonize the interstellar visitors.

So I can't help thinking that any Edo who attempted to punish visitors from interstellar space were recklessly endangering their civilization and their fellow Edo by attempting something so suicidal.

I can't help wondering how evil, violent, ferocious, and cruel the average Edo must have been, if their the government was correct in the belief that the death penalty for every crime was necessary. And if the government was not correct in that belief, their legal penalties were far more cruel than necessary.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I don't think I've seen anybody take into account what actually happened at the end of "Justice". Picard tried to break the Prime Directive; the Edo God stopped them from leaving; Picard pleaded with the Edo God, and was allowed to leave. Ultimately, Picard & crew were granted leniency by the planet's highest authority.