Unexpected Controversy

[DonIago]

^Very well-said.

 

[DevilEyes]

I'm not sure why you're saying that the writers didn't intend us to see it as rape/abuse/violation, as if it's a good thing. That's the problem: that the writers were clueless and hopelessly wrapped up in gender stereotypes, and that they treated the whole thing as a lighthearted comedy issue, not even realizing the implications.

 

[DonIago]

If the writers truly -didn't realize- the implications, it doesn't seem quite fair to then accuse them of handling the issue glibly. The solution to ignorance is education, not blame-placing.

Perhaps they fully realized the implications but just didn't think people were particularly likely to be ready to lynch them over it.

Or perhaps they fully realized the implications and instigating conversations like this was one of their objectives.

 

[Trek_princess]

I didn't see Ah'len force Trip to do anything; I didn't perceive that he was unwilling, or that he saw himself as the victim of a savage act of dominance or hatred.

Trip does not react as if he has been sexually abused or assaulted or humiliated in the most personal and intimate way imaginable. I remember him being freaked out that he's a pregnant man, and that he's going through what a pregnant woman goes through. His crewmates tease him, and he's annoyed, but not reacting as if he thinks they are making fun of a horrific situation. I don't recall him regarding Ah'len as evil because of what happened.

As someone said upthread, a pregnant guy is funny.

I love this episode and have never thought of it as rape. Ah'len and Trip are two intelligent, mature adults who are attracted to each other - she asks him if he wants to play a game with her (not if he wants to play an erotic game, have sex, exchange DNA etc.), and she has no idea that it will result in his pregnancy. They interact innocently enough, but because of unknown, alien, biological issues, Trip is accidently impregnanted. It's funny because, being preggers is a chick thing (and an extremely inconvenient one at that), and Trip's Southern boy masculine ego can't handle it. If Trip hadn't been mortified and defensive about being pregnant, then the other crewmembers probably wouldn't have made fun of him.

Switching the genders (this whole "what if it was Hoshi" scenario) doesn't work because Hoshi would not have reacted in the same way as Trip - she wouldn't have been emmasulated, she wouldn't have felt like her manliness was in question. Besides, the whole thing was an ACCIDENT! That's one reason why it's so funny, and it wasn't a rape. This ep is a gender comedy, and a great one at that.

 

[DevilEyes]

I love this episode and have never thought of it as rape. Ah'len and Trip are two intelligent, mature adults who are attracted to each other - she asks him if he wants to play a game with her (not if he wants to play an erotic game, have sex, exchange DNA etc.)

Uuuuumm... that is exactly the problem. If she had spelled out exactly what it was they were doing and what it could lead to, we wouldn't be talking about this.

Let's go back to that analogy with the man asking a child to "play a little game" with him, or that episode of Law and Order: SVU with the girl with the Down Syndrome who got impregnated by her boss in the grocery store who would ask her to "do exercise" with him - which she didn't think was anything sexual (because babies come from kissing, silly). If you don't see anything wrong with that, you shouldn't see anything wrong with the "Unexpected" scenario, either.

If the writers truly -didn't realize- the implications, it doesn't seem quite fair to then accuse them of handling the issue glibly. The solution to ignorance is education, not blame-placing.

Actually, it IS completely fair. Being clueless is a far worse thing for a writer than either being immoral, or being willing to stir controversy (in fact, the latter is a desirable trait for a writer, IMO).

Perhaps they fully realized the implications but just didn't think people were particularly likely to be ready to lynch them over it.

Yeah, it's not like they wrote something really shocking into the story... like, say, male homosexuality We all know that a male being sexually abused by a female is hilarious and good lighthearted fun... but males attracted to other males, or even - network forbid - having sex with other males? Now, we can't have THAT!

Or perhaps they fully realized the implications and instigating conversations like this was one of their objectives.

I'm pretty sure that this is not the case.

 

[Lady Conqueror]

See, I knew it would strike up an interesting conversation. I'd love to add to it but at the moment my head is all stuffed up with a cold and my kids have been keeping me awake all hours of the night so I really can't think totally coherent thoughts at the moment

In general I largely agree with HR's take but she expresses it a lot clearer than i ever could.

 

[Marten]

I lean towards that she couldn't possibly realize that he might get pregant, and therefore I dismiss it as an accident.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Feel better soon, LC!

I'm not sure why you're saying that the writers didn't intend us to see it as rape/abuse/violation, as if it's a good thing.

I don't believe I characterized my musing as a good or a bad thing. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I was merely speculating as to the writers' intent for the tone of the episode.

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

Ask Al Gore

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Hopeful Romantic and Trek Princess both said it very well.

Yes, Ah'len should have explained to Trip what she was inviting him to do w/ her. I was uncomfortable that she did not do so. But what she did was seductive and perhaps naive, not forceful. And Trip was an adult. So, IMHO, accidental pregnancy, but no rape.

I saw the episode when it was originally broadcast, and I thought it was hilarious. I saw it again recently, and I still thought it was hilarious. Believe me, because of my own history, if I had picked up any vibes of force or violation this time, I would've been PANICKING, not laughing. No matter which gender the person was.

 

[Sharla]

I hate getting into these, but.....
while everyone has a valid and valuable opinon about the subject...my take was that the story was intended to represent danger and our flippant attitudes about it. In this episode, the only reason Trip is ever in the situation is because the Enterprise stops to help someone else. It's the stalled car on the side of the road with the hood up. It's a popular ploy to lure someone in. So the "good Samaritans" stop to help the troubled travelers. All a-twitter with the prospect of contact with aliens. The crew is new to space exploration, human contact with other species has been quite limited still at this point, and everyone's attitude wavers between "what the heck could happen" and "we have to stop and help them captain". I think it was only Reed who was suspicious but he's a bad barometer, always suspicious.
Sooooo, we stop, we help, we get ourselves in over our heads, and it's no big deal. Well, what happens in the next few episodes? We see Archer and the gang getting into more and more serious circumstances with greater and greater consequences. I laughed my hiney off when Trip turned up pregnant, and I didn't think for once that it was an evil or malicious or disgusting episode. I thought it was a very accurate portrayal of how ignorant we can be and how our high minded visions of how we are 1)at the top of the food chain and 2) at the top of the evolutionary ladder not only cause us to make stupid choices, but these attitudes also get us into very harmful situations. Harmful for all involved.
So did anyone see the episode where Odo married Troi's annoying mother. So what does he have like Stockholm's Syndrome then?
Did anyone ever think about what happened to the baby? I think it was "transferred", but does it ever know about it's conception? Does it know who it daddy be? Is that even a valid concern with this species? Is Ahlenn shamed by her people for her behavior? Who knows?

 

[DonIago]

Well, as Starfleet officers they should feel a moral if not legal obligation to assist ships in distress...though not necessarily without taking more precautions.

It's a shame the Vulcans couldn't bring themselves to be a bit more understanding of humanity's desire for exploration and frustration with the Vulcans' holding them back. Maybe if they'd shown more friendly concern and less "We know what's best for you so nyah.." situations like what arose in Unexpected and Cogenitor could have been avoided, or at least handled better.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

the only reason Trip is ever in the situation is because the Enterprise stops to help someone else. It's the stalled car on the side of the road with the hood up. It's a popular ploy to lure someone in. So the "good Samaritans" stop to help the troubled travelers. All a-twitter with the prospect of contact with aliens....
Sooooo, we stop, we help, we get ourselves in over our heads....

I think that's a good description.

 

[Aquarius]

I am going to say something unpopular in reference to Trip's predicament in "Unexpected."

I don't believe it was rape, nor did I ever.

First, I don't think that the stick-your-fingers-in-the-telepathic-pebbles game is what necessarily passes for sexual contact for those Xyrillians. It wasn't presented that way, and there were no connotations suggesting that Trip was being duped on that angle.

Second, Trip wasn't so much impregnated as he was infected; men, apparently, are nothing more than hosts. The fetus is then, really, a parasite. It was more similar to being infected with a contagion through close contact. In my view, Trip wasn't raped any more than you rape someone when you sneeze on them and give them your cold...or put your head lice-ridden head on a movie theater seat and the next person picks it up.

 

[Praxius]

I am going to say something unpopular in reference to Trip's predicament in "Unexpected."

I don't believe it was rape, nor did I ever.

First, I don't think that the stick-your-fingers-in-the-telepathic-pebbles game is what necessarily passes for sexual contact for those Xyrillians. It wasn't presented that way, and there were no connotations suggesting that Trip was being duped on that angle.

Second, Trip wasn't so much impregnated as he was infected; men, apparently, are nothing more than hosts. The fetus is then, really, a parasite. It was more similar to being infected with a contagion through close contact. In my view, Trip wasn't raped any more than you rape someone when you sneeze on someone and give them your cold...or put your head lice-ridden head on a movie theater seat and the next person picks it up.

While I hold a very similar position as you, I figure I should elaborate on my position.

It wasn't rape/sexual assault..... I understand the premise of how some would take it the wrong way if it was a female crew member who ended up pregnant, so they used a guy..... because they wanted this situation to be given a light view, rather then a dark, evil, rape view some stuck-ups might take if the genders were reversed.

Regardless, Trip wasn't raped as there wasn't intention of making him pregnant involved. She said she never heard of or knew it was possible for their species to impregnate other alien species so she felt it was perfectly safe for both of them.

^ That's similar to someone saying "Oh no baby, we can have sex, I'm on the pill" or even "Oh no baby, we can have sex because I have a low sperm count." ~ Only to end up getting pregnant anyways...... is that considered rape?

No.... it's just poor judgment on behalf of both involved.

Chances are, their species didn't consider sex or the act of getting pregnant the same way as we do, and obviously the process is completely different then what we do as humans..... sure Trip was a bit freaked out about the whole thing, but the procedure of removing the fetus thingy from him and transferring to another male host not only seemed like a simple and easy procedure, but she also gave the impression that it'd be easy to find another male host, AKA: the males of her species don't consider having a child as a big deal like we humans do. Also, they didn't actually try and run away or avoid responsibility and as soon as she found out what happened, she helped resolve the issue.... it's not like they put the blame all on him and told him to deal with it.

In regards to the situation with T'Pol and the other vulcan giving her a mind meld..... that wasn't rape or sexual assault either.

It was assault, but there was nothing sexual about the incident. It was personal, it was intimate.... but it was not sexual.

 

[Aquarius]

In regards to the mind meld attack Tolaris made on T'Pol, that is more arguably a metaphor for date rape than Trip's accidental impregnation on the Xyrillian ship.

The connotations that Tolaris had more than a passing interest in T'Pol exist, as he was trying to sell her on his way of life; Ah'len and Trip merely revealed that they found each other attractive. There was no implication that anything more was desired or expected; as far as we knew, Trip meant to fix the ship and move on, harmless flirting notwithstanding.

The telepathic pebbles were pretty much a passive experience--you stick your fingers in, and you just let stuff come to you. The mind meld is a more active/invasive experience--Tolaris was literally burrowing into T'Pol's mind.

Trip and Ah'len didn't even realize that genetic material had been transferred and his pregnancy was an unfortunate consequence of a cultural exchange; Tolaris knew what he was doing to another member of his species, and there was another unfortunate byproduct--Pa'nar syndrome, which is clearly meant to be a metaphor for a STD, especially when one considers the following AIDS-inspired storyline in a subsequent episode and the stigma T'Pol had to carry because of it among her people.

Trip and Ah'len were willing participants in what they did, they just didn't realize that the transfer of an embryo was possible at the time. Tolaris was fully aware of what he was doing to T'Pol, and--this is very important here--he didn't say stop when she said stop.

So to me, it's a fallacy to say that these situations are at all similar. You have one non-sexual situation that resulted in consequences that humans normally associate with sex, and therefore compels some viewers to insist that it was rape despite the lack of evidence of intent or sexual action. Then, you have another non-sexual situation that was clearly fueled, in part, by sexual desire, and full of sexual and date rape metaphor--T'Pol's mind being probed/invaded by Tolaris, the awakening of new feelings and desires, T'Pol's willing participation to a point, Tolaris continuing to ravage her after she says no and even pleads with him to stop...on up to Archer playing the role of angry patriarch when he finds out what that scumbag did to a woman who was supposed to be under his command/protection. Later, we get the STD/stigma/social pariah metaphor to go with it.

So this isn't even apples and oranges here. It's apples and...tunafish.

 

[Praxius]

In regards to the mind meld attack Tolaris made on T'Pol, that is more arguably a metaphor for date rape than Trip's accidental impregnation on the Xyrillian ship.

The connotations that Tolaris had more than a passing interest in T'Pol exist, as he was trying to sell her on his way of life; Ah'len and Trip merely revealed that they found each other attractive. There was no implication that anything more was desired or expected; as far as we knew, Trip meant to fix the ship and move on, harmless flirting notwithstanding.

The telepathic pebbles were pretty much a passive experience--you stick your fingers in, and you just let stuff come to you. The mind meld is a more active/invasive experience--Tolaris was literally burrowing into T'Pol's mind.

Trip and Ah'len didn't even realize that genetic material had been transferred and his pregnancy was an unfortunate consequence of a cultural exchange; Tolaris knew what he was doing to another member of his species, and there was another unfortunate byproduct--Pa'nar syndrome, which is clearly meant to be a metaphor for a STD, especially when one considers the following AIDS-inspired storyline in a subsequent episode and the stigma T'Pol had to carry because of it among her people.

Trip and Ah'len were willing participants in what they did, they just didn't realize that the transfer of an embryo was possible at the time. Tolaris was fully aware of what he was doing to T'Pol, and--this is very important here--he didn't say stop when she said stop.

So to me, it's a fallacy to say that these situations are at all similar. You have one non-sexual situation that resulted in consequences that humans normally associate with sex, and therefore compels some viewers to insist that it was rape despite the lack of evidence of intent or sexual action. Then, you have another non-sexual situation that was clearly fueled, in part, by sexual desire, and full of sexual and date rape metaphor--T'Pol's mind being probed/invaded by Tolaris, the awakening of new feelings and desires, T'Pol's willing participation to a point, Tolaris continuing to ravage her after she says no and even pleads with him to stop...on up to Archer playing the role of angry patriarch when he finds out what that scumbag did to a woman who was supposed to be under his command/protection. Later, we get the STD/stigma/social pariah metaphor to go with it.

So this isn't even apples and oranges here. It's apples and...tunafish.

While I agree with much of what you're saying, to claim Tolaris had "Sexual" interest or desire in T'Pol is only an assumption as the only information in that episode towards his interest towards her was to break her of the old Vulcan beliefs and ways.... he seemed more interested in proving himself right, to spread what he has learned to others of his kind and more interested in experiencing the emotions she experienced, then he had interest in getting sexually intimate with her..... in other words, he had more interest in emotions (her emotions) then he had of her as an individual.

As for the later episode you mentioned about Pa'nar syndrome, I have yet to see that one, thus I can not comment on that aspect.

Now when it came to Troi being violated by Shinzon and earlier in the TNG series, that odd fellow trying to pin crimes on his father..... in both of those examples of her mind being invaded and violated, there was sexual intent in both.... while in T'Pol's case, along with Riker and Bev Crusher in that same episode as Troi..... their minds were assaulted and invaded, but there was no evidence of any sexual intent or misconduct.

 

[Aquarius]

I believe in the DVD commentary, it's Braga who says the subsequent episode, "Stigma", was the "AIDS episode" he'd always wanted to do but wasn't able to work it into any of the other series. So from a TBTB perspective, the STD metaphor is intentional.

ETA: the sexuality fueling the situation wasn't one sided, nor did I mean to imply it was. T'Pol evidently was attracted to Tolaris to some degree, as manifested by the sexual nature of the dreams she had about him. Furthermore, I don't believe it's an accident that these mental images resurfaced when he forced the meld on her.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

... he seemed more interested in proving himself right, to spread what he has learned to others of his kind and more interested in experiencing the emotions she experienced, then he had interest in getting sexually intimate with her..... in other words, he had more interest in emotions (her emotions) then he had of her as an individual.

Tolaris did strike me as someone who was obsessed with experiencing emotions, perhaps even addicted to it -- to the point of getting off on experience someone else's emotions. And when he picked up on T'Pol's sensitivity to emotion, he siezed upon her as someone he could "convert" to his "faith." His desire was to manipulate and control her, I think.

 

[JarodRussell]

Why are people interpreting rape into everything, or getting so upset about it when it happens in FICTION? It's like TrekBBS's version of IMDb's "This movie is racist" threads. We already went through that Spock mind-raped Valeris, that Saavik raped/used young Spock whose mind was totally empty when he went through pon farr so he wasn't able to give any more consent than an animal could give, that Young Spock mind-raped that Romulan in Trek 2009, Troi and other Betazoids were constantly mind-raping others, and now that Trip Tucker got raped by sticking his fingers in sand, etc... is it a phobia or what?