UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possible

[Hermiod]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

Though putting an anti-gay anti-abortionist in place as Minister for Women and Equality is pretty fucking bizarre, regardless of which side of those debates you're on...

Can't be any worse than the one she's replacing - a minister for "equality" (well, the job title already fails in that respect) who hates 48% of the population wasn't the wisest choice either.

At least the role is largely ineffectual. Harperson did more damage during her occasional stints as Gordon Brown's stand-in Prime Minister than when she was doing her day job.

 

[wamdue]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

it seems odd to me that its called "women & equality" when there isnt a "men & equality" role, how is that equality?

 

[Hermiod]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

it seems odd to me that its called "women & equality" when there isnt a "men & equality" role, how is that equality?

Simple answer - it isn't.

But then, according to the last person to hold the job, men are responsible for the banking crisis and shouldn't be trusted to make up more than 50% of a company's board or hold both of the top jobs in Government, so we probably don't deserve one.

Apparently.

Still, it's rather funny that an anti-abortionist got the job seeing as that's probably the most likely reason why women would stop voting for a party en masse.

 

[John Picard]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

Actually, Brown WAS elected to his seat. The PARTY elects the leader, not the people. (I think this is completely wrong, but that's just the way British law works.) The people just elect the party, who select a leader from the individuals in their party that have been elected.

It sounds like someone is longing for a presidential system!

C'mon. You know you'll like it.

Seriously, it has its advantages, especially when the President & the legislature are controlled by different parties. They're so busy fighting each other that they almost never get a chance to fuck up the country as badly as they would otherwise. Only 2 kinds of laws get passed under that set-up-- really good ones that everyone agrees with and really bad ones that all politicians agree with.

You know what I like about Britain's system? The Parliament can call for a vote of "No Confidence", at which point the PM can be ousted, new leadership installed, and a new government formed. Regular elections are comprised of 6 weeks of campaigning, and their governmental system can be just as deadlocked as ours.

 

[danellis]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

One of the first major annoucements from Cameron and Clegg is the introduction of fixed terms. I can only assume that would put a stop to that.

Especially intersting timing- it forces both parties to stick the coalition out.

dJE

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

unless they lose a vote of no-confidence.

or unless the coalition fails to last until they manage to enact it into law.

 

[wamdue]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

it seems odd to me that its called "women & equality" when there isnt a "men & equality" role, how is that equality?

Simple answer - it isn't.

But then, according to the last person to hold the job, men are responsible for the banking crisis and shouldn't be trusted to make up more than 50% of a company's board or hold both of the top jobs in Government, so we probably don't deserve one.

I would not spit on that woman if she was on fire, and even if Gordon Brown had not ruined the economy, I would not have voted for them, because of her.

honestly its about time political partys stopped taking men for granted and courted our vote like they do women.

 

[cultcross]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

honestly its about time political partys stopped taking men for granted and courted our vote like they do women.

Seriously?
So the gender split in the country is, what, just less than 50/50? The current cabinet has... four women in it. Yeah, the men are the ones losing out in politics.
When will the persecution stop?

 

[Hermiod]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

So the gender split in the country is, what, just less than 50/50? The current cabinet has... four women in it. Yeah, the men are the ones losing out in politics.
When will the persecution stop?

My vote was courted just fine - mostly by someone who didn't need to court it because his party already had it. Didn't count for much due to our electoral system and the fact that my seat is one of the safest Labour seats in the South of England.

As with anything, if a group of people is under-represented people from that group have to step up and make opportunities for themselves. Mandating that a certain percentage of people must come from this group and another percentage of people must come from that group just leaves you with a bunch of people picked for being in those groups and not because they're any good at a job.

My issue was with one individual woman, who thankfully has announced that she does not intend to stand for the Labour leadership, and with the fundamentally flawed concept of a Minister for Women and Equality.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

My vote was courted just fine - mostly by someone who didn't need to court it because his party already had it. Didn't count for much due to our electoral system and the fact that my seat is one of the safest Labour seats in the South of England.

There's a great quote here: http://blog.philruse.com/2010/05/godzilla-versus-alastair-campbell.html

"But on reading various left-of-centre articles it seems the driving force wasn't so much "fairness" but a desire to stop the Conservatives by any means, irrespective of the wishes of the electorate. ... the only thing of which we can be certain is that the election reflected the parties we voted for, not the parties we voted against. If someone (anyone?) could please explain this to anyone (everyone?) in the Labour party I would be eternally grateful"

Which really seems to be a dig at this idea that "the majority of people voted against the Tories" cos, you know it's nice to view elections as voting for your choice instead of against someone else's.

Labour look to be imploding the way the Tories did in 1997, with outright two-facedness and refusal to accept the facts. For example Lord Adonis complaining about the fixed-term parliament as unconstitutional, even though that was part of the Labour (and Lib Dem, but not the Tories) manifesto this time out. They also seem to have trouble grasping the concept that more people voted for the Tories than for any other party. Which isn't rocket science.

I also like a letter on Dear Ceefax yesterday, about this Rainbow Alliance stuff, saying "Chelsea have 89 points in the Premier League, but Arsenal and Man U together would have 160 - does this mean Labour think Arsenal and Man U are the champions?"

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

unless they lose a vote of no-confidence.

or unless the coalition fails to last until they manage to enact it into law.

I was watching question time last night and Heseltine made it quite clear the electorate was wholly responsible for the results of the election and this outcome......the guy gets more removed for the real world every time he opens his mouth....stupid electorate, not voting for one party outright in a secret ballot, how dare they.

 

[Hermiod]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

I didn't vote against Labour or the Tories, I voted for the Liberal Democrats.

I agree with your main point. The largest group of people in Britain who voted did so for the Conservatives, but not a majority. We didn't get a Conservative government, we got a Conservative-Liberal Democrat Coalition government. Between the two of them and their other allies such as the DUP, they do make up a majority.


An insufficient number of people were convinced that the Conservatives should form a government so we ended up with a one balanced out by one with views that will quite often oppose theirs. This is a good thing, in my view.

Alistair Campbell can keep whining about this as much as he likes, it won't make him right.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

An insufficient number of people were convinced that the Conservatives should form a government so we ended up with a one balanced out by one with views that will quite often oppose theirs. This is a good thing, in my view.

Alistair Campbell can keep whining about this as much as he likes, it won't make him right.

Indeed. I think actually this is potentially the best possible government we could get, certainly from this election.

I'm not so sure, however, that "the majority of the public didn't want a Tory government" - I fear they did, and the figures show the swing from Lab to Con as greater than the swing the other way in 1997. I think the reason they didn't get a majority (and thus got us a more centrist government) is because they had been so wiped out in the last couple of elections that there was no way they could have got a majority in one - and whatever you think of them, wiping out one half of a two-party system is bad for democracy.

 

[Hermiod]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

^Of course, every government, no matter how popular, needs to have strong opposition.

 

[V'ger]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

there were people that wanted change and the rest thought the conservatives would do a better job and stuck with labour.
i hope this coalition goes well and we move forward and get somewhere when it comes to the economy and tackling big issues.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

^Of course, every government, no matter how popular, needs to have strong opposition.

Precisely

 

[Starkers]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

I also like a letter on Dear Ceefax yesterday, about this Rainbow Alliance stuff, saying "Chelsea have 89 points in the Premier League, but Arsenal and Man U together would have 160 - does this mean Labour think Arsenal and Man U are the champions?"

That's brilliant....I'm somewhat disturned to imagine how many other teams Derby would have to team up with to win the league under that system

Indeed. I think actually this is potentially the best possible government we could get, certainly from this election.
.

It's clearly the most stable option for the country, and to be honest Labour should be hoping it lasts, give them time to rebuild their party and elect a leader they'll actually support. Be interesting to see if Labour stay in the centre or swing left.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

It's clearly the most stable option for the country, and to be honest Labour should be hoping it lasts, give them time to rebuild their party and elect a leader they'll actually support. Be interesting to see if Labour stay in the centre or swing left.

Looking at all the laws they brought in, they'd have to swing left to *reach* the centre

 

[Captain Shaw]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

^Of course, every government, no matter how popular, needs to have strong opposition.

Precisely

This is what went wrong for Labour.
They had that many seats they did not need to listen to anyone else where the Tories will be forced to listen to the other side of the arguments and in some cases made to back down.
Which in the long run it could mean they stay in power longer.
Just heard a Labour MP has been stabbed but looks like he is going to be OK thankgod.
A 21-year-old woman was arrested after the incident at Kingsford Way in Beckton, east London.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100514/tuk-woman-held-after-mp-timms-stabbed-6323e80.html

 

[cultcross]

Re: UK election. So much for our votes counting - worst result possibl

I didn't vote against Labour or the Tories, I voted for the Liberal Democrats.

I agree with your main point. The largest group of people in Britain who voted did so for the Conservatives, but not a majority. We didn't get a Conservative government, we got a Conservative-Liberal Democrat Coalition government. Between the two of them and their other allies such as the DUP, they do make up a majority.


An insufficient number of people were convinced that the Conservatives should form a government so we ended up with a one balanced out by one with views that will quite often oppose theirs. This is a good thing, in my view.

Alistair Campbell can keep whining about this as much as he likes, it won't make him right.

Pretty much agreed completely. Especially the first line.