(UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

[Hermiod]

Edit - right on cue, just to further reinforce my point, Spanish radio is reporting that Real Madrid have signed Kaka for £56m. Chelsea's new regime fails on its second day. That'll be the sack for Ancelotti in January, then.

So Chelsea splashes the dosh and you hate them and they're ruining football, but they don't sign Kaka for record amounts and they're failures. You are too funny.

I think we've determined who's frothing at the mouth with bias.

Money drives expectation. Rich clubs are expected to win. Yours doesn't win enough to justify the money Abramovic pays the players. No Premier League for three years, no Champions League in the Abramovic era. If you're going to spend hundreds of millions of pounds, surely you expect to win the big trophies ? Who has the culture of failure now ?

Oh, I should add this. Doesn't touch kids ? Wrestling's for retards ?

 

[Starkers]

...so Villa spent all last summer fending off Liverpool, who would buy Barry for £18m and not a penny less.

This summer they're letting him talk to City a month before the window even opens... and City have offered £12m.

Someone want to explain to me how the hell Villa are making sense of this? And if he goes to City, after stating he wanted CL football, well then it is simply the most obscene, money-grabbing transfer since... well, the last one.

And don't even get me started on this managerial merry-go-round. Bruce is an idiot for going to Sunderland, and Martinez will get crucified if he goes to Celtic and doesn't win everything going in his first season despite having at best one season of Championship experience. Much better off staying down here and working his way up with the Jacks... after we've got promoted ahead of them of course. And where's Strachan going to end up? Wigan?!

Well I'm guessing Barry is a year older now at least, and maybe closer to the end of his contract (although did he sign a new one last summer after Liverpool failed to stump up the cash?) Hey for all we know Villa basically agreed to let him go cheaper if he stayed this season? You're right though, if he goes there its all about the money, although I guess City could be in the CL the season after next...of course they might not be too.

I'm not sure if Bruce is an idiot. Sunderland are potentially a bigger club than Wigan, bigger fanbase and possible a bigger backer now. I think Martinez would be daft to take the Celtic job as well, but at least he has some experience. If Celtic did go for Adams I'd have to assume it's a cunning plan to make Celtic fans finally appreciate how good Strachan was! I don't think Strach will end up at Wigan, I figure he'll take a break until someone in the prem gets sacked then he'll ride in to the rescue.

What price Jewell going back to Wigan I wonder

 

[Garak]

They insulted them with their total disrespect.

There's no indication of any disrespect in the article provided, only evidence of a rocking good time!

Standard Chelsea behaviour.

Agreed!

Never mind, I'm sure Chelsea fans can turn to alternate role models like Frank Lampard. Well, unless those fans are parents who don't think it's a good idea to throw their wives and children out of the house when he's not appearing in sex tapes.

Or if they're really seeking guidance they can always turn to Rape Van Persie!

Money drives expectation. Rich clubs are expected to win. Yours doesn't win enough to justify the money Abramovic pays the players.

By whose estimation, yours? At least you are consistent with the utterly disgusting Euro viewpoint that you know what to do with someone else's money better than they do.

Roman can do what he wants with his money, write that down 1,000 times.

Who has the culture of failure now ?

Arsenal does, still. They don't win anything.

Oh, I should add this. Doesn't touch kids ? Wrestling's for retards ?

Thank you for providing concrete proof that the WWE and its fans are truly classless individuals. And you complain about Chelsea, too funny.

 

[Jax]

Is anyone else getting a weird vibe of stockholm syndrome here or is that just me?

Oh well I wouldn't know after all "am not the sharpest tool in the box" nice that for debate you result to petty name calling. Well I can guess what type of football fan you are and the game doesn't really need fans like you.

Barry is a money whore, hes left Villa for probably 10k more (5k really cause of tax rate) he wanted to leave for CL football fine but hes gone to a team where there is no team just players, a manger who is on borrowed time and are NOT in europe at all. Villa = UEFA Cup and probably more chance of getting into CL during Barry's remaining years, hes taken a step back IMO.

I do wonder why Wenger or Rafa weren't willing to pay £12 million for a player like him and now will probably spend nearly as much on a unproven player.

KAKA worth that amount give me a break REAL your being robbed I tell thee robbed.

 

[Hermiod]

Barry is a money whore, hes left Villa for probably 10k more (5k really cause of tax rate) he wanted to leave for CL football fine but hes gone to a team where there is no team just players, a manger who is on borrowed time and are NOT in europe at all. Villa = UEFA Cup and probably more chance of getting into CL during Barry's remaining years, hes taken a step back IMO.

I do wonder why Wenger or Rafa weren't willing to pay £12 million for a player like him and now will probably spend nearly as much on a unproven player.

£12m is only £1m shy of our total transfer budget. If we'd off-loaded Adebayor in time, we might have made a bid. This affects us because Liverpool will be less willing to sell Alonso now, more than anything else.

I can understand Villa's reasons for selling him. He had one year left on his contract.

Who knows ? Maybe Sidwell or Reo-Coker will get a chance to live up to some of their potential now.

 

[Hermiod]

In other news - Setanta Sports failed to make a £3m payment to the Scottish Premier League on Monday.

This is not looking good for Setanta.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Money drives expectation. Rich clubs are expected to win. Yours doesn't win enough to justify the money Abramovic pays the players. No Premier League for three years, no Champions League in the Abramovic era. If you're going to spend hundreds of millions of pounds, surely you expect to win the big trophies ? Who has the culture of failure now ?

By whose estimation, yours? At least you are consistent with the utterly disgusting Euro viewpoint that you know what to do with someone else's money better than they do.

Roman can do what he wants with his money, write that down 1,000 times.

Plus, as I've pointed out previously, Arsenal has more money than just about any other football club in the world, namely ManU, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona and Bayern....

 

[Jax]

^ Good, hopefully Setanta and ITV deal with England will fall through so after WC 2010 we can have BBC getting the games back supported by SKY for other games.

BBC is paid by taxpayers and it does not get to have the countries biggest sport (football) to air the international side of it greedy FA.

About the Barry thing, he would of slotted into the Arsenal team so well IMO and it would of been a better move than the Liverpool one. If i was wenger I would of brought Barry and sold Adebayor for anything above £15 million. Arsenal should also go after Upson and Metersacker who could cheaper than you think and to fund moves for them Gallas should be next one out door followed by Senderos. You could also raise funds by fees for having some of your promising players sent out on loan like Vela and Wilshire (that how you spell it?).

I think Villa will now finish outside the top 7 next year and best replacement that they could probably get...I would love to see Huddlestone move there to let O Neill work his magic on him and regular football would do him well not too mention he can pass vey well so that part of Barry game would be replaced and is probably more defensive in nature than Barry...Reo Coker/Sidwell not good enough to be anything but squad players.

 

[Hermiod]

Plus, as I've pointed out previously, Arsenal has more money than just about any other football club in the world, namely ManU, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona and Bayern....

Not this shit again.

Arsenal have a fairly good bank balance because the club is run sensibly. If our board behaved like, for example, Real Madrid's, that bank balance would rapidly disappear.

If you're looking for the next Leeds or Newcastle, I suggest you look elsewhere.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Eh, what? A club being run well doesn't contradict what I'm saying at all.

 

[Hermiod]

Good, hopefully Setanta and ITV deal with England will fall through so after WC 2010 we can have BBC getting the games back supported by SKY for other games.

BBC is paid by taxpayers and it does not get to have the countries biggest sport (football) to air the international side of it greedy FA.

I was a bit trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea when watching the FA Cup final - Clive Tyldesley and Jim Beglin or Jon Champion and Craig Burley.

The Champions League final was a much easier choice - Tyler and Gray, all the way.

About the Barry thing, he would of slotted into the Arsenal team so well IMO and it would of been a better move than the Liverpool one. If i was wenger I would of brought Barry and sold Adebayor for anything above £15 million. Arsenal should also go after Upson and Metersacker who could cheaper than you think and to fund moves for them Gallas should be next one out door followed by Senderos. You could also raise funds by fees for having some of your promising players sent out on loan like Vela and Wilshire (that how you spell it?).

Wilshere (with an 'e' ) will not be loaned out yet. He is only 17. It's too early for him to be sent off to play Championship football.

Arsenal should hold out for whatever they can get for Adebayor. He's on a long term contract, I don't see why we should give him away.

Mertesacker I am not sure about, but I don't really want Upson back. Senderos is definitely off, though. I think buying a new defender and then selling Gallas would just be treading water. There's nothing wrong with our defence when we can put the best five players out. It's when players get injured and we're stuck with Silvestre and teenage left wingers playing out of position at left back that we hit a problem.

I think Villa will now finish outside the top 7 next year and best replacement that they could probably get...I would love to see Huddlestone move there to let O Neill work his magic on him and regular football would do him well not too mention he can pass vey well so that part of Barry game would be replaced and is probably more defensive in nature than Barry...Reo Coker/Sidwell not good enough to be anything but squad players.

Both of those are sad situations. At West Ham and Reading they looked like top players but both chased the money and made bad career moves.

As for Huddlestone, they'd have to make sure Villa Park isn't on a fault line.

 

[Hermiod]

Eh, what? A club being run well doesn't contradict what I'm saying at all.

You're using it as a criticism of Arsenal, that my view that spending money creates expectation is incorrect.

Arsenal have money because the club's path is not dictated to the board by insane, sentimental fans clamouring for the next messiah like Newcastle's is.

Arsenal would not have any money if we had a board and a manager who believed in throwing that money at any problem that arises. Other clubs do this and it rarely works. Sometimes you get lucky and you get a top player for that big transfer fee - like Michael Essien, Wayne Rooney, Fernando Torres or indeed Andrei Arshavin. Other times, you get someone who settles and doesn't pay you back - Dimitar Berbatov, Robbie Keane, Andrei Shevchenko or Jose Antonio Reyes.

 

[Roger Wilco]

No I'm just using it to criticise you personally for being such a crybaby about money while you're supporting one of the richest clubs in the world. I support a club that has a budget of just €15 million/year total - that's not enough to even compete on a middlish level in Europe (let alone in the Champions League - we have the flattering distinction of being one of the few clubs that lost all 6 games in a CL group phase - and I travelled to all of them ). What should I say?

 

[Hermiod]

No I'm just using it to criticise you personally for being such a crybaby about money while you're supporting one of the richest clubs in the world. I support a club that has a budget of just €15 million/year total - that's not enough to even compete on a middlish level in Europe (let alone in the Champions League - we have the flattering distinction of being one of the few clubs that lost all 6 games in a CL group phase - and I travelled to all of them ). What should I say?

You should say that any money Arsenal has is money the club earned and was not given to them by some foreign billionaire looking to offload some of their money before one of their wives divorces them.

Never mind, though, when Mr. Usmanov and Mr. Kroenke are done fighting over the club, I'm sure we'll become just as arrogant as everyone else and continue to ensure that Mr. Platini continues to lose his hair at the rate he currently is.

I could call you a crybaby for being equally arrogant, complaining about money when my local team won't see €15m go through its coffers in 15 years. Or I could call you a hypocrite for complaining about Red Bull taking over Salzburg and giving them more money than your team can compete with.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I'm not a hypocrite about this, I'm just not objective which I see that as my priviledge as a football fan.

Also, although I'd prefer my club to be the richest in the country, the difference in money doesn't matter much nationally. And on a non-emotional level, Red Bull's investment was great for my club because it allowed us to position ourselves as their nemesis, as the counterexample to their commercialism, old-school vs modern football - our average attendence last season was the highest in 50 years.

 

[Hermiod]

I'm not a hypocrite about this, I'm just not objective which I see that as my priviledge as a football fan.

Also, although I'd prefer my club to be the richest in the country, the difference in money doesn't matter much nationally. And on a non-emotional level, Red Bull's investment was great for my club because it allowed us to position ourselves as their nemesis, as the counterexample to their commercialism, old-school vs modern football - our average attendence last season was the highest in 50 years.

Regardless of my personal choice of team to support, I still think the likes of Abramovic are bad for the long term future of the game. You may not believe me, but I am objective about that. I'm a football fan as much as I am an Arsenal fan. The inflationary effect people like Abramovic, and past and present owner owners of clubs like Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, West Ham, Aston Villa, Portsmouth, Newcastle etc have on player wages trickles down to the lower leagues.

It is no coincidence that all three teams relegated from this year's Championship played Premier League football within the last six years. It also leads to record numbers of players being released from their clubs at the end of the season every year with no clubs to go to.

Lower league clubs that used to rely on developing young players and then selling them on can't do that anymore because the concept of transfer fees when you get past a few clubs at the top of the Championship does not exist anymore. Players are signed on one year contracts with loans being increasingly common.

This is all because Premier League clubs are signing mediocre players on long term contracts with over-inflated wages.

It has a similar effect on foreign leagues too. A Dutch or a French club's best and highest paid player could stay and play Champions League football but instead he runs off to sit on some lower mid-table Premier League side's bench instead. Why ? Because the club is willing to risk bankrupting itself just to keep up.

 

[Starkers]

Huddleston would be a great singing for Villa I think. I'd like to hope O'Neill has a replacement already lined up but, good a manager as MON is he does seem a trifle slow in the transfer market at times. I hope both Villa and Everton can do as well as last season, though I expect Spurs will be much improved next year, and whilst I figure Man City will still be inconsistant I'll be surprised if they don't finish higher.

Anyway keep your £12 million Barrys we're close to signing Dean Moxey from Exeter actually the Exeter director of football saying Derby's people have been very nice and very professional over the whole thing. Makes a change from last summer when we were being accused of tapping up players and being disrespectful to other clubs. We might not pull up any trees next season (unless beating Forest counts ) but I don't think we'll struggle and I really like the direction we're heading in. Sensible board, sensible manager, so I hope we can avoid the fate of Charlton, Southampton, Norwich etc...

 

[Jax]

As for Huddlestone, they'd have to make sure Villa Park isn't on a fault line.

my m8 likes to call Huddlestone FATTY but am sure Spurs don't give out as much burgers as they use to do under Jol

He is only 17. It's too early for him to be sent off to play Championship football.

I think Wenger holds back his players for too long and 17 makes you an adult so if your good enough to play you should. I think he would benefit greatly from a full years play in the championship (forest need a left winger ) and then at 18 the same at the PL level before being allowed to break into the Arsenal team and hopefully the England setup.

Rooney, Messi, Fabregas all were playing at young ages though while good am sure Wilshere is not on there levels but still if hes half as good as the Arsenal Academy have been saying "let him loose"

 

[Jax]

Manchester United winger Nani has rejected suggestions that he will leave Old Trafford in the summer.

I think Nani has forgotten that Fergie decides who goes and stays FERGIE do yourself a favour and get rid of that waste and spend your money not on Tevez but on someone like Ribery for left wing. Frazier Campbell/Welbeck can cover for Rooney/Berb especially since it seems fergie wants to play 4-2-3-1 which drives me crazy because Rooney is not being played properly .

While your at it get rid of Berb and get Hunterlarr not Benzema.

 

[Hermiod]

I think Wenger holds back his players for too long and 17 makes you an adult so if your good enough to play you should. I think he would benefit greatly from a full years play in the championship (forest need a left winger ) and then at 18 the same at the PL level before being allowed to break into the Arsenal team and hopefully the England setup.

Rooney, Messi, Fabregas all were playing at young ages though while good am sure Wilshere is not on there levels but still if hes half as good as the Arsenal Academy have been saying "let him loose"

Wilshere will be a Carling/FA Cup player next season.

You have to be careful with talented English players as they tend to get a bit too big for their boots very quickly if not managed properly. When you end up with David Bentley saying we should drop Dennis Bergkamp and play him instead, there's a gap in the manager and the player's view of the player's ability.