TWOK: It's all Spock's Fault

[Maurice]

I don't know that I've ever seen this discussed here before (likely given how long the board's been around), but one thing that occurred to me a while back is the reason the Enterprise gets clobbered and everything that stems from that is essentially Spock's fault. Consider, Kirk goes to Spock and explains the Regula One issue. Spock immediately relinquishes the conn to him ("the ship is yours"). Kirk says that's not necessary, just for Spock to get him to Regula One, but Spock presses the point. Result, rusty Kirk is at the conn doesn't raise the shields as per regs and nearly gets the ship destroyed. Had Spock stayed in command he almost certainly would not have made the same boneheaded "ignore the regulations" error and Khan would not have been able to so easily cripple the ship.

In that light, it's poetic justice that Spock dies saving the ship, because it was his Spock-up that got them into the predicament in the first place.

Thoughts?

 

[Tenacity]

Spock was trained by Kirk, it's not a certainty that he would have raised shields either, prior to the first attack.

It was Spock who told Saavik to shut up concerning the regulation to raise shields.

 

[GNDN18]

Interesting analysis which makes Spock’s sacrifice—and the price for Kirk’s recklessness—all the more poignant.

On the other hand, Spock was not Data, meaning he wasn’t necessarily going to slavishly follow regulations. While Spock admonished Saavik for questioning Kirk’s decision, he didn’t offer his opinion. As master of the ship and the Admiral’s former exec, he would seem to have that prerogative.

Also, I’m not sure that the outcome would have been wildly different had Enterprise raised her shields. Battle still would be joined, but a decisive victory for Khan is uncertain.

Of course, if it had been Decker and not Spock, we might have gotten this.

 

[Kronos]

How do you know Spock would have thought of the prefix code? maybe Spock deems it logical to hand over the Genesis data and the ship is blown away.

 

[GNDN18]

How do you know Spock would have thought of the prefix code?

It was Kirk’s idea…

…but Spock doesn’t seem to be far behind.

 

[DonIago]

Of course, if Kirk hadn't marooned Khan on Ceti Alpha V to begin with then none of this would have happened either...

 

[donners22]

If anyone's to blame, it's the crew of the Reliant for not noticing that a PLANET is missing.

 

[DonIago]

We could blame contemporary humans for having created Khan in the first place.

 

[Maurice]

How do you know Spock would have thought of the prefix code? maybe Spock deems it logical to hand over the Genesis data and the ship is blown away.

If the ship didn't get crippled so easily the prefix code would not have been required.

Secondly, Kirk would still be there and could suggest it to Spock even if they weren't crippled.

 

[Tosk]

Consider, Kirk goes to Spock and explains the Regula One issue. Spock immediately relinquishes the conn to him

So it's Kirk's fault then, for going to Spock in the first place.

 

[Maurice]

So it's Kirk's fault then, for going to Spock in the first place.

Oh hush.

The captain is responsible for the safety of his ship. Spock handed the reins over, but he's still the ship's Captain, and still responsible.

I honestly don't think Spock would have hesitated to raise the shields, cuz...

1. Spock learns Genesis is basically the Manhattan Project
2. While making a beeline for Regula One the only thing they encounter is another Starfleet ship "closing fast" and acting oddly
3. Regulations say "shields up" in this circumstance. Another Starfleet ship would expect this.

The logical action for all of the above is "full power to shields".

Spock's culpability aside, the script forces Kirk to behave as an idiot. Carol asks "why are you taking Genesis away from us?" and then asks "by whose authority" are they doing it. "You" and "whose authority" basically screams Starfleet. Then the transimission is "jammed at the source" and then they encounter the Reliant acting squirrelly. DUH

 

[BigDaveX]

While Spock might have had the Enterprise raise her shields when they first encountered the Reliant, I find it hard to believe that Khan's entire plan of attack was based around whoever was captaining the Enterprise being so careless as to leave their shields down until it was too late. My guess is that he planned to somehow fool the Enterprise into lowering her shields and then open fire, but thanks to Kirk's screw-up he was able to skip straight to blasting chunks out of the ship.

 

[PhotoBoy]

Surely it’s Ceti Alpha VI’s fault for having the temerity to randomly explode?

 

[GNDN18]

the script forces Kirk to behave as an idiot

Now that I’m forced to look at this …erm… logically, it seems that Kirk should have known that Reliant was attached to Regula I.

 

[Herbert]

Spock was trained by Kirk, it's not a certainty that he would have raised shields either, prior to the first attack.
.

Not entirely.

 

[Commishsleer]

Did the Enterprise raise its shields ever in TOS when approaching a Starfleet ship in TOS that didn't answer?

Its all Sarek's fault for having the temerity to steal one of our human women and to have Spock in the first place.

To blame Spock for trusting Kirk with the Enterprise...


​

 

[Maurice]

Surely Amanda "stole" Sarek and not the other way around.

 

[Kronos]

Now that I’m forced to look at this …erm… logically, it seems that Kirk should have known that Reliant was attached to Regula I.

Would he? he may have known they had a ship attached to them but not have known which one, we never do hear what Kirk's job in ST2 actually is.

 

[Timo]

Regulations say "shields up" in this circumstance. Another Starfleet ship would expect this.

Since we never learn what the regulations actually say, we might just as well deduce they absolutely forbid the raising of shields, so as not to slow down evacuation procedures. Hence Kirk's decision to go to yellow alert is an excessively aggressive and unwarranted move!

Certainly whenever Riker or Worf suggested raising shields in similar circumstances, Picard shot down the idea as utterly stupid. And usually didn't get his starship shot to pieces from under him...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JonnyQuest037]

If Spock had been in command and raised the shields, then Khan wouldn't have gotten as far as he did, and Spock wouldn't have died saving the ship from the Genesis Wave. Then Kirk and the crew wouldn't have taken the Enterprise back to Genesis to resurrect him, and the Enterprise crew wouldn't have been in exile on Vulcan when the whale probe came to Earth and started wreaking havoc. In all likelihood, they would've been stuck on Earth or somewhere else out in space and unable to help.

So if Spock doesn't turn command of the Enterprise over to Kirk in TWOK, then the Earth is crippled and very likely destroyed two movies later.

Spock was trained by Kirk

I wouldn't say that. Spock served under Pike on the Enterprise for over 11 years, and presumably had a few other assignments before that. His training was pretty much in place by the time Kirk came along. Spock just had an intimate understanding of Kirk and his command style from 15+ years of friendship and service with him.