two stupid points that bring down "I, Borg"

[sonak]

as with an Apple computer virus disabling super-advanced alien ships in "ID4," a rather simple computer virus based on an abstract geometric design is supposed to cripple the incredibly powerful and technologically sophisticated Borg Collective? Did the writers of this episode get the idea from the 1960s TOS episodes where Kirk would disable advanced computers with stupid word games and logic puzzles?


Secondly, didn't the Borg assimilate Captain Picard AS AN INDIVIDUAL? A man who had well-defined ideas about freedom, individuality, and self-determination. However, just because Hugh was going to be re-assimilated after being separated from the Borg Collective, suddenly those concepts were going to make re-assimilating Hugh more dsifficult?

Huh?

 

[Forbin]

I hated the whole episode. Not least because Hugh spoke more like a young actor from California than a believable alien cyborg.

 

[flemm]

I, Borg is an example of an episode that has some very strong dramatic moments but which really takes a beating the more you analyze it.

 

[Timo]

Our technohead heroes described their attack plan in simplistic terms, but also in such a way that we got the impression there was finesse behind it. I see no problem with the idea of presenting the Borg with an enigma that contains and slowly releases nasty poisons when the Collective bites into it... It's an attack like any other, with chances of success and failure, and with the heroes very well knowing the Borg are going to have some sort of defenses up.

Secondly, didn't the Borg assimilate Captain Picard AS AN INDIVIDUAL? A man who had well-defined ideas about freedom, individuality, and self-determination. However, just because Hugh was going to be re-assimilated after being separated from the Borg Collective, suddenly those concepts were going to make re-assimilating Hugh more dsifficult?

This was just idle speculation on our heroes' part, and turned out not to have been particularly close to truth in "Descent".

Anyway, Picard was a known hostile. Hugh might have been assumed to be less hostile, hence fewer security precautions might have been taken in reassimilating him. In the best possible scenario, that is - and apparently this did not come to be.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Holdfast]

as with an Apple computer virus disabling super-advanced alien ships in "ID4," a rather simple computer virus based on an abstract geometric design is supposed to cripple the incredibly powerful and technologically sophisticated Borg Collective?

The point of the episode wasn't the precise nature of the technological mcguffin devised to destroy the Borg, so they skated over the details. For me, there was more than enough there to allow suspension of disbelief and enjoy the ethical tensions of the episode.

However, just because Hugh was going to be re-assimilated after being separated from the Borg Collective, suddenly those concepts were going to make re-assimilating Hugh more dsifficult?

Well, even without the virus, the Borg had enough trouble dealing with Hugh's inviduality, as Descent showed. Maybe they "firewalled" Picard off in a way they didn't with Hugh...?

I wouldn't sweat the techy details too much. They're fun in some episodes, but in I, Borg especially, they're really only meant to be very incidental to the core of the episode in my opinion.

 

[Forbin]

Short review I wrote for a friend's movie magazine many years ago:

In this script by René Echevarria, the Enterprise crew finds a wrecked Borg scout ship with one survivor (Jonathan Del Arco). They bring him aboard at Dr. Crusher's insistence to try to save him. The crew succeeds in disconnecting him from the Borg hive mind, and too quickly manages to get the young humanoid acting and talking almost as if he were an actor from California.
The meat of this episode is the moral discussion of Captain Picard's inspired idea to plant a computer virus in this Borg and return him to the Collective, where he will be the instrument of destruction for the whole race. Doctor Crusher, as all good science fiction doctors must, gets on her high horse and argues against what to her is obviously genocide. Picard, having been assimilated by the Borg, knows that they are soulless drones who deserve no better. Wise crew hostess Guinan (Whoopee Goldberg), who's own people were wiped out by the Borg is all for the plan - at first. Chief engineer Geordi (LaVar Burton), who's gotten to know this Borg as a lonely and confused kid, convinces her to talk to him. She begins to doubt her own opinion (a rare moment for Guinan), and likewise convinces Picard to give him a chance. Some thoughtful moments are provided by solidly written and acted scenes between Goldberg and Stewart. Overall, though, the episode is too saccharine and too moralistic -- an ill-advised attempt to put a “human” face on an enemy that should remain mysterious and threatening.
For a more interesting and believable story about an attempt to rehabilitate a Borg, I recommend Peter David’s very readable NEXT GENERATION novel “Vendetta”

 

[sonak]

OK, even if you accept the idea that the way they described the virus was more like a metaphor for the way it would work than a literal description, I still say that a race as technologically advanced as the Borg, for whom technological assimilation is their SPECIALTY, would have pretty elaborate defenses against sabotage through computer virus, even assuming the creativity of Starfleet personnel.

 

[Cornholio]

umm, maybe it would've been better to use like, a trojan that would allow access to the entire collective after Hugh's re-assimilation and stuff. then they coulda done like Data did in BoBW, and put the entire collective to sleep.

For a more interesting and believable story about an attempt to rehabilitate a Borg, I recommend Peter David’s very readable NEXT GENERATION novel “Vendetta”

I've tried a couple of times, but I've never been able to read this book. it's just collectin' dust on my shelf.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I hated the whole episode. Not least because Hugh spoke more like a young actor from California than a believable alien cyborg.

Not an episode I particularly like, myself. It was a bit too corny and preachy...

 

[ProtoAvatar]

In 'I, Borg', Picard chose to condemn to death and assimilation TRILLIONS of beings - he was convinced he could stop the borg and he didn't do it, allowing the collective to continue its genocidal war against the galaxy. The morals presented in the episode were atrocious.

About the paradox's chances of objectively working: Data/LaForge presented it only summarily - it was obvious there is FAR more to the paradox than was described in a FEW SECONDS.
Data/LaForge were confident the paradox would work (along with the rest of the crew) - and, given that their knowledge of trek tech (even borg tech) is, by far, more detailed than ours, their words carry a lot of weight.

 

[Timo]

In 'I, Borg', Picard chose to condemn to death and assimilation TRILLIONS of beings - he was convinced he could stop the borg and he didn't do it, allowing the collective to continue its genocidal war against the galaxy. The morals presented in the episode were atrocious.

...Of course, by the same token, proceeding with the plan would have killed trillions, too, or perhaps subjected them to a fate worse than death. The morals presented in the episode thus sound pretty mundane: do you kill all the Huns/Nazis/Japs/Commies/bad guys so that they don't kill you - or should you be better off killing yourself, so that you don't become a worse guy?

given that their knowledge of trek tech (even borg tech) is, by far, more detailed than ours, their words carry a lot of weight.

Then again, it's a story point often enough that our heroes only have a tender grasp of the true nature of the Borg. Their very best (no doubt nicely represented by LaForge and Data) might not amount to much in the end. But in this episode, our heroes would not yet be aware of the true limits of their knowledge and skills, so the point about them being confident stands.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ProtoAvatar]

In 'I, Borg', Picard chose to condemn to death and assimilation TRILLIONS of beings - he was convinced he could stop the borg and he didn't do it, allowing the collective to continue its genocidal war against the galaxy. The morals presented in the episode were atrocious.

...Of course, by the same token, proceeding with the plan would have killed trillions, too, or perhaps subjected them to a fate worse than death. The morals presented in the episode thus sound pretty mundane: do you kill all the Huns/Nazis/Japs/Commies/bad guys so that they don't kill you - or should you be better off killing yourself, so that you don't become a worse guy?

The comparison fails because the borg are, every single one of them, an enemy army on a genocidal mission.
Do you have the right to kill enemy soldiers in self-defense?

given that their knowledge of trek tech (even borg tech) is, by far, more detailed than ours, their words carry a lot of weight.

Then again, it's a story point often enough that our heroes only have a tender grasp of the true nature of the Borg. Their very best (no doubt nicely represented by LaForge and Data) might not amount to much in the end. But in this episode, our heroes would not yet be aware of the true limits of their knowledge and skills, so the point about them being confident stands.

Timo Saloniemi

Their grasp of the borg tech by that point is FAR better than ours, now.
Among the highlights - both Picard and Data had intimate knowledge of the hive mind, tricorder scans of borg ships, the remnants from Ent:Regeneration and BOWB, etc.

And Data/LaForge&crew were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the paradox will work.

 

[Timo]

The comparison fails because the borg are, every single one of them, an enemy army on a genocidal mission

That's the exact argument used for nuking Hiroshima or burning Tokyo. In retrospect, though, Washington might have been better off nuking McArthur or burning LeMay; the tactical outcome would not have been drastically different, but the political capital gained would have been significant. The Feds would have to live with the fact that they murdered trillions, in a universe where countless other civilizations would not be such easy prey, and might well find a rare moment of unity in ridding the neighborhood of these madmen called men.

Their grasp of the borg tech by that point is FAR better than ours, now.

It might still amount to essentially zip, though. After all, the only live Borg they ever had the chance to examine prior to developing that weapon would have been Hugh, a Borg isolated from the Collective that was the target of the weapon. Locutus would have been a "near-Borg", and connected to the Collective at least partially during his captivity aboard the E-D, but we later learn the Collective lied a lot to Locutus on important matters...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ProtoAvatar]

The comparison fails because the borg are, every single one of them, an enemy army on a genocidal mission

That's the exact argument used for nuking Hiroshima or burning Tokyo.

Straw-man argument.

Hiroshima and Tokyo were inhabited by civilians, who, of course, were not continuously commiting genocide.

The borg are, all of them, soldiers unleashing a horror beyond human comprehension on the Milky Way galaxy. Killing them is pure self-defense - and it would have saved TRILLIONS of innocent beings.
And any species who had contact with the borg would have thanked humanity - you see, those TRILLIONS of lives saved belonged to their citizens.

One more thing - in 'I, Borg', it was established only that the paradox will dismantle the borg hive ming, destroy the so-called borg 'culture'.
For all the episode establishes, the drones would merely become individuals, not killed.

Their grasp of the borg tech by that point is FAR better than ours, now.

It might still amount to essentially zip, though.

Highly unlikely, considering the amount of information Starfleet gathered on the Collective until then (Locutus being a 'near-borg' is unsupported speculation).


Timo, when Picard made his choice, he was CONVINCED the paradox would have worked on the Collective.

He decided to condemn to death and assimilation TRILLIONS of beings in the delta quadrant and elsewhere by allowing the borg to survive and continue their megadeath work.
Then, Picard put his decision into practice.

The blood of all the borg's victims since 'I, Borg', of BILLIONS, stains Picard's hands, too, because he could stop it all and he didn't.

As for the true scale of the death and suffering Picard enabled - the Federation, also, is marked for death by the borg; indeed, a conservative estimate would be that the borg will assimilate or kill everyone in the Milky Way in ~5000 years.

 

[Timo]

Hiroshima and Tokyo were inhabited by civilians, who, of course, were not continuously commiting genocide.

But the stated USAAF rationale for bombing these places was that the civilians were continuously committing genocide. There was a strategic decision there to treat all civilians as part of the Japanese war effort, necessitating the killing of them all (or sufficiently many to weaken the war effort, with the hoped-for yet not really believed-in side effect of weakening enemy morale). So the situation would have all possible relevance to Picard's decision on whether to annihilate the "civilian" Borg or not.

For all the episode establishes, the drones would merely become individuals, not killed.

Luckily for both drama and realism, VOY offered a wider range of possible outcomes.

Based on what we saw in VOY, a sudden disbanding of the Collective would probably lead to a large percentage of the Borg Drones becoming free-thinking individuals again, and a large percentage of them being able to cope with the fact - so probably trillions might not die after all, but mere hundreds of billions. From Picard's point of view, such an outcome might be quite acceptable and attractive even after he found some resonance with Hugh.

Still, Picard would be essentially working on a hunch, unable to tell the real outcome of his actions. And we agree that his hunch was that he was going to kill trillions.

So it's very difficult to see how a decision of action would have been different from a decision of inaction in the moral sense. Trillions would have been marked for death in either case - merely the color of their uniforms would have been different. As already pointed out, that's classic wartime decisionmaking, a perfectly standard moral dilemma of them vs. us, and there is no inherent moral high ground in choosing us over them. One would have to devise that high ground out of specific value judgements on us and them; are we really better than the Borg, and by how much?

a conservative estimate would be that the borg will assimilate or kill everyone in the Milky Way in ~5000 years.

A bit unlikely, because they have already had hundreds of millennia to do it. It seems they simply aren't interested in assimilating everyone. At least not at the same time...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Timo

"But the stated USAAF rationale for bombing these places was that the civilians were continuously committing genocide. "

The "USAAF rationale" was a poor excuse for genocide - one not supported by facts.
Letting the civilian population of Hiroshima and Nagasaki live would not have resulted in genocide - in hundreds of thousands of americans dead - under any circumstances.

There were atomic - and, according to some historians - non-atomic solutions for ending the was without killing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. There were other options.


In trek, the borg outnumbered the federation to a ridiculous degree - in Voy: Scorpion, it was established that the borg have millions of cubes (a conservative estimate being hundreds of thousands of cubes).
The borg assimilated thouands of species - some more advanced than the federation - and now, the federation was a target (low priority, but still a target). And the borg are relentless.
In other words, given enough time, the federation would have lost - the difference in power was just too large for any other outcome.

The paradox from TNG: I, Borg was a gift from the heavens, a ticket out of the cemetery - not just for the federation, but for thouands of other species, for TRILLIONS of people. Not one from the thousands of species the borg previouly assimilated had this chance. There were no other options for survival.


And yet, Picard choose NOT to use the paradox - to condemn to death or assimilation TRILLIONS, including the federation he was sworn to protect.
And why? If one watches the episode, one sees it's because Picard didn't want to use one being - Hugh.

Picard has a very black-white view of the universe.
But in war the choice is more often than not between gray choices, one can only choose 'the lesser evil' - war is grotesque this way.
Picard could not accept that - he wanted the 'white' choice; and so, he chose to ignore the medium/long-term effects of his choice (the borg killing and assimilating) and focus on the short-term (not using Hugh), on how he was, once again, morally pure.


"Trillions would have been marked for death in either case - merely the color of their uniforms would have been different. As already pointed out, that's classic wartime decisionmaking, a perfectly standard moral dilemma of them vs. us, and there is no inherent moral high ground in choosing us over them. One would have to devise that high ground out of specific value judgements on us and them; are we really better than the Borg, and by how much?"

As far as 'rules of war' are concerned, the borg are an enemy army on a genocidal mission; one has the right to kill them (or otherwise stop them) in self-defense.

However, this is one case when you can say that you are 'better' than the borg. Why? Because the borg were made to be ridiculously evil:
They killed and assimilated TRILLIONS in the past and you're absolutely sure they'll continue to do so - you most definitely won't (and didn't);
You kill them (if you do) in self-defense, in order to stop them from destroying your civilization and many others - the borg have no other motivation beyond the unrelenting 'will to conquer', beyond their hunger.

 

[Praxius]

Just to pop in here in regards to the "Virus" idea in the episode, at the time of the episode being made (1992), Computer internet viruses and anti-virus programs were not all that prominent and not as big of an issue like they are today..... thus by today's understanding, one would assume that the Borg would have have various anti-virus systems in place in their collective to prevent such an attack from occurring. Sure computer viruses and/or the concept of them existed since the 70's, they never really became main stream issues until around the mid-90's..... which is why I can excuse the episode of not being very accurate with the overall concept of how a computer virus would spread in the collective and/or if the Borg had counter measures in place for such an attack.

 

[neogothboy74]

I like "I, Borg", but the problem I have with it is that at the end they make a big deal out of the fact that Hugh refers to himself as I: "I will not assist you." But Hugh referred to himself as I earlier in the episode: "Do I have a name?". The first time I saw it I thought it was a flaw that he'd said it the first time, but then when Picard got all excited about it later it made me wonder why Geordie and Crusher didn't react? It's just one of those little annoyances...but I liked "I, Borg", but possibly because I thought Hugh was cute. lol

 

[StarryEyed]

Just to pop in here in regards to the "Virus" idea in the episode, at the time of the episode being made (1992), Computer internet viruses and anti-virus programs were not all that prominent and not as big of an issue like they are today..... thus by today's understanding, one would assume that the Borg would have have various anti-virus systems in place in their collective to prevent such an attack from occurring. Sure computer viruses and/or the concept of them existed since the 70's, they never really became main stream issues until around the mid-90's..... which is why I can excuse the episode of not being very accurate with the overall concept of how a computer virus would spread in the collective and/or if the Borg had counter measures in place for such an attack.

You didn't need to understand the concept. We already knew at that time that the Borg had been around for a long time and were a terrible threat to countless other races long before the Federation even knew of their existence. Doesn't it stand to reason that other races would have tried the same thing long ago? I mean, the crew of a single starship came up with this thing in a matter of hours.

 

[Tiberius]

as with an Apple computer virus disabling super-advanced alien ships in "ID4," a rather simple computer virus based on an abstract geometric design is supposed to cripple the incredibly powerful and technologically sophisticated Borg Collective? Did the writers of this episode get the idea from the 1960s TOS episodes where Kirk would disable advanced computers with stupid word games and logic puzzles?

Bear in mind that we aren't dealing with one guy, we;re dealing with a team of engineers who have developed this with the help of an android. AND they have all the knowledge about the Borg (including the wealth of data they got from Picard), so it's not like they haven't got experience with Borg technology.

Secondly, didn't the Borg assimilate Captain Picard AS AN INDIVIDUAL? A man who had well-defined ideas about freedom, individuality, and self-determination. However, just because Hugh was going to be re-assimilated after being separated from the Borg Collective, suddenly those concepts were going to make re-assimilating Hugh more dsifficult?

I have this idea that the Queen wanted to assimilate Picard as a form of rape - to dominate him. it had nothing about using him as a spokesperson. I mean, the Borg deciding they need an ambassador isn't really their style, is it. the Queen wanting to make Picard see that he is helpless to resist is very much a Borg Queen thing.