Two alternate timelines in the 24th century?

[Xavier_Storma]

For people who follow the books, comics and games it should become obvious, that at some point in time after NEMESIS, the timeline seems to split up.

As far as I see it, we have two seperate timelines going:

- The first being the timeline established in the Pocket Books, the DESTINY events and its aftermath with the foundation of the Typhon Pact and the Kithomer Alliance. Were Klingons and Federation kind of unite to stand a better chance against the new imminent threat.

- The second following STO and it's path to 2409 and including IDW's "Countdown" comic book. With a full scale war being started between the Klingon Empire and the UFP.

My question is, in how far will the events of "Countdown" affect the Pocket Books timeline (which IMO is much more credible when it comes to the political situation), especially when Picard quoted Kirk's advice to stay captain as long as possible in the latest TNG novel. This contradicts "Ambassador" Picard in the comic completely.

Any ideas or insights, anyone?

 

[Broccoli]

The events in Countdown are several years off to where the Pocket novels currently are. If Pocket wants to do something with it, there is no rush on their end.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Yeah I know that, but STO and "Countdown" are set in the same timeline (Klingon-Federation war, no Borg extinction, no Typhon Pact etc.).

The timelines have been significantly different from 2380 (look up the path to 2409 for 2381 oe 2382 for example, nowhere does it mention the Borg Invasion nor the Typhon Pact).

 

[Deranged Nasat]

For people who follow the books, comics and games it should become obvious, that at some point in time after NEMESIS, the timeline seems to split up.

As far as I see it, we have two seperate timelines going:

- The first being the timeline established in the Pocket Books, the DESTINY events and its aftermath with the foundation of the Typhon Pact and the Kithomer Alliance. Were Klingons and Federation kind of unite to stand a better chance against the new imminent threat.

- The second following STO and it's path to 2409 and including IDW's "Countdown" comic book. With a full scale war being started between the Klingon Empire and the UFP.

My question is, in how far will the events of "Countdown" affect the Pocket Books timeline (which IMO is much more credible when it comes to the political situation), especially when Picard quoted Kirk's advice to stay captain as long as possible in the latest TNG novel. This contradicts "Ambassador" Picard in the comic completely.

Any ideas or insights, anyone?

Yes, Star Trek Online differs in its view of the 2380s from the novels, at least post-"Articles of the Federation". I'm not sure "Countdown" fits with either. As mentioned above, if the novels are going to accept "Countdown" then there is plenty of time-5 years following the "Typhon Pact" series- for things to change and reach that story's state of affairs. I personally hope the novels give their own take on Romulus' destruction, however, as "Countdown" and I disagreed seriously . I'm guessing they will, as "Countdown" seems difficult to reconcile given the Borg technology (the illogic of which, if attempting to reconcile with "Destiny", I argued about on an earlier thread). On the other hand, some things add up- Romulus' considerably less xenophobic outlook, for one. Picard as ambassador in light of "Losing the Peace" shouldn't pose too much of a problem- perhaps as little boy grows his parents realize he needs to live planet-side, and Picard accepts the diplomatic post in part for his child's sake.

I agree the political situation in the novels is far more interesting and logical than that of Star Trek online, by the way.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Oh yes, I also hope they will make up a better explanation for what happened with Romulus than "Countdown".

They could even start utilising Nero in one of the following books and give him more personality.

I certainly hope that the Typhon Pact plot will not be resolved completely at the end of the miniseries, and that the continuing threat will be present for many more years to come.
Maybe this Cold War could result in the destruction of Romulus...

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Oh yes, I also hope they will make up a better explanation for what happened with Romulus than "Countdown".

They could even start utilising Nero in one of the following books and give him more personality.

I certainly hope that the Typhon Pact plot will not be resolved completely at the end of the miniseries, and that the continuing threat will be present for many more years to come.
Maybe this Cold War could result in the destruction of Romulus...

The Typhon Pact is a closely-knit political alliance, so I imagine it's here to stay (though they may be stumbling blocks along the way). Maybe one member might leave or conflict might arise- Romulan and Breen would be my bet, they hate each other- but it'll hold together, I imagine. Too much effort went into it for the members not to keep it a reality.

It would be an odd "cold war" that ended in planets exploding, though. Anyway, the film confirmed it was a supernova that was responsible.

 

[rahullak]

Picard as ambassador in light of "Losing the Peace" shouldn't pose too much of a problem- perhaps as little boy grows his parents realize he needs to live planet-side, and Picard accepts the diplomatic post in part for his child's sake.

I agree the political situation in the novels is far more interesting and logical than that of Star Trek online, by the way.

Can't say I agree with a possible Picard decision to become an Ambassador. Getting a desk job for the sake of his child? Sure, quite plausible. But leaving Starfleet? Not on your life. At the very least Picard would want to be an Admiral in Starfleet and make a difference in at least that way.
Given what we know of his turning down offers of Admiralty at least four times (latest being in Losing the Peace) all in the name of "wanting to make a difference" and his passion and belief in Starfleet, it would be out of character for him to jump ship and become Ambassador to Vulcan. At least, that's my view.

 

[Christopher]

The Typhon Pact is a closely-knit political alliance, so I imagine it's here to stay (though they may be stumbling blocks along the way). Maybe one member might leave or conflict might arise- Romulan and Breen would be my bet, they hate each other- but it'll hold together, I imagine. Too much effort went into it for the members not to keep it a reality.

Indeed. Basically the crux of the Typhon Pact story (and Margaret talked about this at Shore Leave, so it's safe to say now) is that, for a couple of centuries, the Federation has been the predominant political and cultural force in the quadrant, the most prosperous and influential state, but now the Federation has been devastated by the Borg. So there's something of a power vacuum, not just in military terms, but in terms of all those things -- economics, politics, cultural influence, prestige. The nations of the Typhon Pact combined have the potential to be not so much an enemy to the Federation as a replacement for the Federation in the role of the quadrant's political and cultural superpower. The UFP may have to settle for being the Second World from now on instead of the First World. That's definitely a long-term story. There's no way things are just going to go back to the old status quo, because the Federation itself has been profoundly changed.

There's certainly no way to reconcile that with the ST Online universe. But that's not surprising, since different licensors have usually gone their own ways aside from the occasional crossover. Whether it's compatible with Countdown is a different matter, but given that Countdown has been tied somewhat closely with the ST:O continuity, my preference would be to take the books in a different direction that builds on what already exists within the books. Of course the books will have to acknowledge the basics that were in the actual movie -- the supernova, Romulus destroyed, Spock vanished, the existence of red matter. But everything else from Countdown is just one possible interpretation, like any tie-in.

 

[rahullak]

^^

Perhaps we could have a series featuring the exploits of the nations of the Typhon Pact? A Star Trek of The Nations of the Typhon Pact or something similar charting their missions and their own version of democracy etc.

 

[JD]

You haven't been to Trekmovie or the 2010 schedule thread yet, have you? They've already announced the line up for the Typhon Pact miniseries:
Here the info from Trekmovie.com (which was copied into the thread),

FALL INTO THE 24TH CENTURY AND THE TYPHON PACT
In the Fall…the bill comes due. In the "Destiny" series (and books that followed), the Federation president struck a Faustian bargain to assemble a fleet to take on the Borg invasion, and that give rise to The Typhon Pact, which is a ‘Warsaw Pact’ coalition of bad guys (Romulans, Tholians, Gorn, Breen, Tzenkethi, & Kinshaya). In the Fall Pocket Books will do four books, all set in 2382, with four captains (including bringing Deep Space Nine in line with the rest of the 24th century books), all telling the story of how Starfleet deals with rise and threat of the Typhon Pact. Each book will focus on one captain and one or two aliens in the Pact. According to Clark, the books in this series are tied together and follow each other, however they are not as interwoven as the "Destiny" trilogy and so readers could read just one or two and still feel like they aren’t missing something.
October
"Seize the Fire" (TITAN) by Michael Martin
Captain Riker and the USS Titan face the Gorn who are looking to step up and secure their position with in the Typhon Pact.
November
"Zero Sum Game" (AVENTINE) by David MackAventine under the command of Captain Dax is assigned to aid with the insertion and extraction of Starfleet operatives behind Breen lines
December
"The Rough Beasts of Empire" (DS9) by David R. George III
The Deep Space Nine series jumps forward to 2382. The book is a tale of intrigue and machinations with DS9 characters dealing with the Romulans, who are a divided people looking to cement their rightful position as the leader of the Typhon Pact, by any means necessary. The book will also deal with the Tzenkethi.
January 2011
"Path of Disharmony" (TNG) by Dayton Ward
Picard’s Enterprise is assigned to the least glamorous mission, babysitting a conference on Andor, but it is here that the Typhon Pact will show their strength by daring to reach into the heart of the Federation to raise their standard as the pre-eminent power. This book will also focus on the Tholians.

 

[rahullak]

^^
Uh, actually I did, but thanks anyway.

What I meant was a series looking at things entirely from the perspective of the Typhon Pact instead of from the perspective of UFP. With new characters, new Typhon Pact "heroes/protagonists" and other unknown "villains/antagonists".
They could be like the Peacekeepers in the Starfleet Command games: they try to keep the peace, but much less tolerantly and more ruthlessly than the Federation....

 

[LutherSloan]

I have to say that I'm still a bit surprised that the Tholians, the massive xenophobes they are, can form any kind of alliance with anyone.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

I am happy that the direction goes a different way than what STO and "Countdown" have to offer.

IMO what happens in the books is more plausible and thought through.

 

[Sci]

Indeed. Basically the crux of the Typhon Pact story (and Margaret talked about this at Shore Leave, so it's safe to say now) is that, for a couple of centuries, the Federation has been the predominant political and cultural force in the quadrant, the most prosperous and influential state, but now the Federation has been devastated by the Borg. So there's something of a power vacuum, not just in military terms, but in terms of all those things -- economics, politics, cultural influence, prestige. The nations of the Typhon Pact combined have the potential to be not so much an enemy to the Federation as a replacement for the Federation in the role of the quadrant's political and cultural superpower. The UFP may have to settle for being the Second World from now on instead of the First World. That's definitely a long-term story. There's no way things are just going to go back to the old status quo, because the Federation itself has been profoundly changed.

Fascinating! Especially considering that that parallels what the United States is going through today -- not necessarily in terms of being severely weakened (though, between Iraq, the economy, and Hurricane Katrina, we have been somewhat weakened), but in terms of having to deal with the fact that the rest of the world is becoming so prosperous and powerful themselves that we are either no longer the world's sole superpower, or will not be such very soon.

Just as the Federation is moving from a unipolar quadrant to multipolar quadrant, so too is the U.S. in real life moving from a unipolar to multipolar world.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Indeed. Basically the crux of the Typhon Pact story (and Margaret talked about this at Shore Leave, so it's safe to say now) is that, for a couple of centuries, the Federation has been the predominant political and cultural force in the quadrant, the most prosperous and influential state, but now the Federation has been devastated by the Borg. So there's something of a power vacuum, not just in military terms, but in terms of all those things -- economics, politics, cultural influence, prestige. The nations of the Typhon Pact combined have the potential to be not so much an enemy to the Federation as a replacement for the Federation in the role of the quadrant's political and cultural superpower. The UFP may have to settle for being the Second World from now on instead of the First World. That's definitely a long-term story. There's no way things are just going to go back to the old status quo, because the Federation itself has been profoundly changed.

Fascinating! Especially considering that that parallels what the United States is going through today -- not necessarily in terms of being severely weakened (though, between Iraq, the economy, and Hurricane Katrina, we have been somewhat weakened), but in terms of having to deal with the fact that the rest of the world is becoming so prosperous and powerful themselves that we are either no longer the world's sole superpower, or will not be such very soon.

Just as the Federation is moving from a unipolar quadrant to multipolar quadrant, so too is the U.S. in real life moving from a unipolar to multipolar world.

That's what good TREK is... a mirror for present events, offering a solution. Best example would be THE UNDICOVERED COUNTRY (my favorite of the TOS movies) which did just that.

Previous TREK books have also mirrored our world. Take "A Time to Kill/to Heal" for example, when the Enterprise had to deal with a situation similar to the Iraq War and it's aftermath.

TREK books have simply become awesome in the years since NEMESIS, and I hope they will continue for a long time to come.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I have to say that I'm still a bit surprised that the Tholians, the massive xenophobes they are, can form any kind of alliance with anyone.

Well, we have seen tolerant and open minded Tholians in the past: Nezrene and Tasthene in "Vanguard", even Admiral Yilskene and Ambassador Kasrene in "The Sundered". Of course, the current ruling political faction seems to draw much more upon the traditional xenophobia, as you say. On the other hand, the Tholians' goal in joining the Pact was, according to Tezrene, to spite the Federation. Their motivation seems much less "noble" and sympathetic, so to speak, than that of the Gorn, Kinshaya and Romulans. Maybe, given what the Ruling Conclave seems to think is an inevitable "cold war" between the Assembly and the Federation, they felt it was the lesser of two evils to be in a position of influence as part of the new superpower.

 

[Christopher]

^The Andorians seemed pretty xenophobic in the 22nd century. They called humans "pinkskins" (ignoring all the other hues we come in) and didn't get along with Vulcans, Tellarites, or just about anybody. But they came to learn the value of a cooperative alliance with their former adversaries.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^The Andorians seemed pretty xenophobic in the 22nd century. They called humans "pinkskins" (ignoring all the other hues we come in) and didn't get along with Vulcans, Tellarites, or just about anybody. But they came to learn the value of a cooperative alliance with their former adversaries.

Indeed . Perhaps the Tholians might even play an essential role in keeping the Pact together? The information provided on the 2010 books seemed to suggest the Gorn, Romulans etc were jockying and competing for influence and authority within the Pact. Given that the Tholian's motivation for joining was less "we want more influence" and more "we just want to be part of it to spite our enemy", maybe, ironically, they might be in the best position to sooth the others and remind them the whole is more important than each member's position in it. That would perhaps be a natural outgrowth of their Lattice experience, too. Hmmm, that might be the key to a "better" Tholian Assembly...

 

[Sci]

^The Andorians seemed pretty xenophobic in the 22nd century. They called humans "pinkskins" (ignoring all the other hues we come in) and didn't get along with Vulcans, Tellarites, or just about anybody. But they came to learn the value of a cooperative alliance with their former adversaries.

To be fair to the Andorians, though, they didn't, apparently, have a habit of making First Contact with economically-devastated and technologically primitive worlds in order to establish virtual puppet governments that would do whatever they wanted in a form of "soft imperialism" -- which is apparently what the Vulcans did both to Earth and to Coridan. (And, for that matter, Andor: Paradigm established that Andor has been a parliamentary democracy the entire time it's been unified, whereas Vulcan was a de facto military dictatorship before V'Las was overthrown.)

But, there again, the Vulcans, too, learned to embrace mutual equality and cooperation and to reject imperialism.