Tuvok - the first full time Vulcan

[kimc]

In thinking about it, I think you're right. Tuvok did seem to be more cynical than Spock. That is a pretty good difference between the two. I seem to recall an episode where Tuvok was discussing Spock's politics with Janeway (was it regarding the Klingons?), and I think he mentioned that he initially disagreed with him. It seemed that Tuvok and Valeris had similar views of the Klingons. Would Tuvok have entered her conspiracy if he'd gotten the opportunity? Man, that could've been a hell of a flashback episode!

That would have made for some interesting drama. Unlike Valeris though, Tuvok could be talked into Spock's way of thinking which shows he was a bit more flexible.

It's a real shame, Chakotay's best scenes (in the end, his only good ones) were discussing strategy with Janeway. I always wondered why if Tuvok is an old friend, a Vulcan, and her third officer, why he wasn't privy to those discussions as well. I always thought that was kind of a slap in the face to Tuvok. They touched on Chakotay believing that Tuvok resented him and Tuvok denying it. They could've done a lot more with that Janeway-Chakotay-Tuvok interplay than they did, which was virtually nothing. If they had, Chakotay and Tuvok would've come out as better characters (especially Chakotay).

Well the relationship between J & C is a complex one in itself but yes you have to wonder how it affected the friendship between Tuvok and Janeway.

 

[Triskelion]

T'Pol, now that was an emotional Vulcan, even before the substance abuse.


Tuvok is the man. I especially was fond of his interplay with Paris.

While he and Janeway obviously had a history, very little of that was fleshed out; it might have been nice to feel the weight of their history a bit more.

And I agree with what rocketscientist says about potential for the triumvirate with Chakotay.

The thing I really like about Tuvok was that he understood emotion. (I especially liked the scene in Meld when he strangled Neelix for being so very annoying! That was some superb taunting from Ethan Phillips, worthy of strangulation).

Some of Neelix's best stuff was from bouncing off Tuvok.

 

[Stag]

In early TOS eps including 'The Cage'. Spock very much showed emotion - he smiled evey now and again, ok maybe it was more of a grin, and he certainly did alot of yelling as in the transporter room during 'The Cage' --- "THE WOMEN!!"

Uh, that isn't very applicable. Spock's character was not totally set in the pilot episode The Cage. I'm sure you're aware of that.

Find another example of Spock crying, laughing, etc. in any other ST episode beyond the pilot where he wasn't traumatized (TMP), infected by spores (This Side of Paradise), distorted water molecules (The Naked Time), or thrown back in time (i.e. the episode where he met Zarabeth in Sarpeidon's past).

Point taken, but that is why I said the earlier episodes. I'll be damned if I can remember the episode but there was one where he is standing in the Captain's doorway and he has this smirk on his face because of something McCoy gets flustered about. Definitely by mid season 1 Nimoy has Spock nailed down and knows the character inside and out.

EDIT: Oh also in the final scene of Amok Time where Spock finds Kirk alive - definitely some emotion there.

In my mind, Spock because he is a hybrid (or as Scotty would call him a "HALF BREEEED!!") I think he overcompensates with his stoicism.

I did not know Russ and Nimoy interacted about Tuvok. That is excellent.

Oh and Jolene Blalock playing T'Pol?!? Please...I can only think of 2 reasons why I think she was a worthy Vulcan.

 

[Michael]

I much preferred T'Pol, and Blalock as a actor.

I love your subtle sarcasm.

 

[Kegek]

Always liked Tuvok. He's the one character I really think VOY should have spent more time on then it did. Russ was fantastic as a Vulcan; up there with Nimoy and Lenard. Don't consider him groundbreaking as an idea; though. Russ was one of VOY's more conservative ideas - bring in an alien from a popular species along for the ride in the DQ. Speaking conceptually rather than in execution, Chakotay - an ex-terrorist and overtly spiritual (in a human tradition rather than a ficituous one) officer - was probably the boldest idea in Voyager.

But what Tuvok was was a great character, and that's what counts.

 

[rocketscientist]

T'Pol, now that was an emotional Vulcan, even before the substance abuse.


Tuvok is the man. I especially was fond of his interplay with Paris.

While he and Janeway obviously had a history, very little of that was fleshed out; it might have been nice to feel the weight of their history a bit more.

And I agree with what rocketscientist says about potential for the triumvirate with Chakotay.

The thing I really like about Tuvok was that he understood emotion. (I especially liked the scene in Meld when he strangled Neelix for being so very annoying! That was some superb taunting from Ethan Phillips, worthy of strangulation).

Some of Neelix's best stuff was from bouncing off Tuvok.

You're right about Neelix. I generally despise that character for many reasons but one of the very few ways he was effective, maybe the only one, was as a decent foil for Tuvok, usually irritating him somewhat unintentionally and with no malice, unlike Dr. McCoy who took great glee in irritating Spock.

It's a real shame, because I just think more could and should have been done with Tuvok. He was such an interesting character and when Russ had a chance to shine, he made that character work. But, no the whole, they didn't do a whole lot with him besides a little interplay with Paris, a little with the captain, and a bit more with Neelix. Tuvok just came across to me as being kind of solitary.

Well, whatever. I really liked the character and I thought Russ did a great job with him. He totally convinced me he was a Vulcan.

 

[rocketscientist]

In early TOS eps including 'The Cage'. Spock very much showed emotion - he smiled evey now and again, ok maybe it was more of a grin, and he certainly did alot of yelling as in the transporter room during 'The Cage' --- "THE WOMEN!!"

Uh, that isn't very applicable. Spock's character was not totally set in the pilot episode The Cage. I'm sure you're aware of that.

Find another example of Spock crying, laughing, etc. in any other ST episode beyond the pilot where he wasn't traumatized (TMP), infected by spores (This Side of Paradise), distorted water molecules (The Naked Time), or thrown back in time (i.e. the episode where he met Zarabeth in Sarpeidon's past).

Point taken, but that is why I said the earlier episodes. I'll be damned if I can remember the episode but there was one where he is standing in the Captain's doorway and he has this smirk on his face because of something McCoy gets flustered about. Definitely by mid season 1 Nimoy has Spock nailed down and knows the character inside and out.

I believe you're referring to Mudd's Women. Spock did have a smirk there. That was a very early episode though, so the character still wasn't totally nailed down. Remember that Nimoy had no road map for what Vulcans were supposed to be like. He and the writers were inventing Spock as they went along.

EDIT: Oh also in the final scene of Amok Time where Spock finds Kirk alive - definitely some emotion there.

Well, Spock was coming down from the throws of Pon Farr. Plus, he was kind of traumatized, since he thought he'd killed his best friend. That said, I think you pointed out the best example of Spock losing it in ST with that one. I find that one very hard to defend.

In my mind, Spock because he is a hybrid (or as Scotty would call him a "HALF BREEEED!!") I think he overcompensates with his stoicism.

He very well might. That's what I was referring to wrt Spock's insecurity. He tries, at least he initially did up till his encounter with V'Ger, to act more Vulcan than most Vulcans. Guinan made the same observation about Worf on TNG. He was insecure because for a large part of his adolesence he was raised by humans instead of Klingons. Those are aspects that make Spock and Worf such interesting charcters imo.

Here's a question: Since Spock is half-human (or at least a bit human, physiologically, he appears to be mostly Vulcan), does that blunt those volatile Vulcan emotions? Basically, does his little bit of humanity help Spock to be more serene than other Vulcans like Tuvok?

Y'know, I don't think Spock's human genes really hurt him wrt being Vulcan at all. We saw several examples in ST where we see how much other Vulcans respect and revere Spock.

 

[RoJoHen]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Sarek is really the best Vulcan. He never showed emotion (ya know, except when he was crazy and dying), but at the time you could see that it was there, which is exactly how a Vulcan should be.

But if this is a Tuvok thread, I'll say he did a great job. It's the times when he shows emotion, however, than make me really not like Russ as an actor. He's great as the emotionless Vulcan, but when the emotions hit, he comes across as goofy.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

Tuvok was the best character on Voyager, IMHO. Also Tim Russ did talk to Leonard Nimoy regularity about the Character and the Vulcan race. personally, I've see Russ at cons 3 times over the years, he's a good guy, IMHO.

He did talk to Nimoy? I didn't know that!

That's pretty cool.

Tim Russ mentioned it one or twice on the con circuit, and on TV. Tim even got a chance to talk to Patrick Stewart during the TNG episode where Tim was playing a terrorist.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Tuvok was the best character on Voyager, IMHO. Also Tim Russ did talk to Leonard Nimoy regularity about the Character and the Vulcan race. personally, I've see Russ at cons 3 times over the years, he's a good guy, IMHO.

He did talk to Nimoy? I didn't know that!

That's pretty cool.

Tim Russ mentioned it one or twice on the con circuit, and on TV. Tim even got a chance to talk to Patrick Stewart during the TNG episode where Tim was playing a terrorist.

that's cool. Tim Russ has been on TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Not many people can say that

 

[Michael]

He did talk to Nimoy? I didn't know that!

That's pretty cool.

Tim Russ mentioned it one or twice on the con circuit, and on TV. Tim even got a chance to talk to Patrick Stewart during the TNG episode where Tim was playing a terrorist.

that's cool. Tim Russ has been on TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Not many people can say that

And Star Trek VII.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Tim Russ mentioned it one or twice on the con circuit, and on TV. Tim even got a chance to talk to Patrick Stewart during the TNG episode where Tim was playing a terrorist.

that's cool. Tim Russ has been on TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Not many people can say that

And Star Trek VII.

yep!!

I've actualy had arguments with people that it's not Tuvok in that movie

 

[RoJoHen]

I say it's not Tuvok only because I'm pretty sure he doesn't have Vulcan ears. Otherwise, I have no problem with that being him.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

In ST:Generations, it wasn't Tuvok: No Pointy Ears. However, it was Tim Russ playing a human that looks allot like Tuvok, go figure.

 

[Stag]

In ST:Generations, it wasn't Tuvok: No Pointy Ears. However, it was Tim Russ playing a human that looks allot like Tuvok, go figure.

Either I never noticed or I have forgotten, where is Tim Russ in Generations?

 

[Michael]

In ST:Generations, it wasn't Tuvok: No Pointy Ears. However, it was Tim Russ playing a human that looks allot like Tuvok, go figure.

Either I never noticed or I have forgotten, where is Tim Russ in Generations?

In the background on the bridge of the Enterprise-B.

 

[CorporalClegg]

It's too bad they never got Russie onto Enterprise.

He would then be the answer to the trivia question:

"Which actor has appeared with every Star Trek captain?"

 

[Stag]

In ST:Generations, it wasn't Tuvok: No Pointy Ears. However, it was Tim Russ playing a human that looks allot like Tuvok, go figure.

Either I never noticed or I have forgotten, where is Tim Russ in Generations?

In the background on the bridge of the Enterprise-B.

Thanks, I totally forgot about that.

 

[Kio]

Speaking conceptually rather than in execution, Chakotay - an ex-terrorist and overtly spiritual (in a human tradition rather than a ficituous one) officer - was probably the boldest idea in Voyager.

I hadn't thought about it that way, but you're right, Chakotay is an ex-terrorist. The way his spirituality was portrayed was a little cheesy at times, but it did make him unique.

Back to Tuvok, I think the writers fit him into show perfectly. He wasn't an outsider dealing with issues of alienation, which was good since that role was better filled by other Voyager characters. But they still managed to use his Vulcan-ness to its fullest.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Tuvok was the best character on Voyager, IMHO. Also Tim Russ did talk to Leonard Nimoy regularity about the Character and the Vulcan race. personally, I've see Russ at cons 3 times over the years, he's a good guy, IMHO.

He did talk to Nimoy? I didn't know that!

That's pretty cool.

I didn't know that either, but its not surprising. I always found Russ' performance as Tuvok to be very evocative of Nimoys portrayal of Spock. He was easily my favorite VOY character.