Turnabout Intruder

[Lance]

Number One commanded the Enterprise in Pike's absence in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie" (TOS) and Uhura took command in "The Lorelei Signal" (TAS). It could very well be true that none of the twelve or thirteen (possibly fewer at the time Kirk was given command, and also at the time of "Turnabout Intruder," if the ones lost during the course of the series had not all been replaced by then) ships of the Enterprise's type—which are what the writers of TOS specifically meant when they said "starships"—had female captains, thus lending support to Lester's perception of that small circle as a boys-only club, but there was clearly no actual regulation that categorically precluded women from command.

Just wanted to say, I like this as an explanation. It kind of covers all the bases well, and Janice Lester was of unsound mind, so her perceptions are suspect to begin with. That she might equate that limited pool of 'starship' captains as being something of a broader issue is not out of character.

This controversy will never end.

It goes on and on, my friend. Some people, started singing it, not knowing what it was. And they'll continue singing it forever, just because.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I love the actress' performance of James T. Kirk. She played it, very well. What I can't stand about this episode is that the mutiny/execution bit went too far. And went on for far too long. Shatner's overacting helps, somewhat, in trying to keep it lively, but the proceedings are far too farcical to be believed.

 

[Lance]

I love the actress' performance of James T. Kirk. She played it, very well. What I can't stand about this episode is that the mutiny/execution bit went too far. And went on for far too long. Shatner's overacting helps, somewhat, in trying to keep it lively, but the proceedings are far too farcical to be believed.

The whole General Order 4 thing is the bit that takes me out of it. It's too bizarre. I can believe that the enlightened future Earth having disposed of the death penalty (as most Western civilizations have here on Earth today), but keeping a death penalty on the books anyway just in case, or whatever, just seems ridiculous to me.

General Order 7 (from "The Menagerie") at least had the caveat that it was attached to one particular planet and one particular circumstance. Violate Talos IV and we reserve the right to execute you. It's a bit extreme, but it's explainable. Almost.

We never learn exactly what General Order 4 actually is, but the implication in the episode is that it's attached to some kind of mutiny/treason type situation. Which is weird, because Sulu and Chekov talk about the death penalty being forbidden with "one exception":

SULU: The death penalty is forbidden. There's only one exception.
CHEKOV: General Order Four. It has not been violated by any officer on the Enterprise.​

If there's an "exception", gentlemen, then it means the death penalty is not "forbidden".

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Just wanted to say, I like this as an explanation. It kind of covers all the bases well, and Janice Lester was of unsound mind, so her perceptions are suspect to begin with. That she might equate that limited pool of 'starship' captains as being something of a broader issue is not out of character.

Quite. We shouldn't deny the possibility of any lack in equal representation for women among elite starship command assignments (all such commanders we saw on the series were indeed men, after all), but neither must we accept unquestioned the suggestion that such sexism is explicitly codified (in contradiction of other evidence), nor Lester's belief that her womanhood—of which she is possessed a pronouncedly irrational "hatred" according to Kirk—is truly her sole or even primary disqualification for such a position.

 

[johnnybear]

Even with a death penalty on the books it doesn't mean that the Captain will actually use it, does it! And Kirk was a pretty nice guy!
JB

 

[3D ChessMaster]

AE was interesting at least. TI was okay, just monotonous at times. They must really have slashed the budget on this last episode because I don't recall seeing a single crewmember wanding around the corridors, except for the 2 red shirt security dudes.

It does look like they are minimising costs on this last show - maybe to pay for the drinks at the farewell party. No Uhura is noticeable, even though she seemingly only says 'hailing frequencies open' in many episodes when one sees an episode without her like TI then one sees how important her presence was for the 'vibe' of the show.

In the court martial sequence there are so many 'reaction' shots of Chekov and Sulu together not noticeably reacting to the trial.

The trial goes on for a while but It's not unreasonable that it takes a while for the crew in court to be convinced that Kirk and Lester are swapped and of course , a trial scene is cheap to film.
Susan Smith as Lester/Kirk does a convincing acting job though,
I think she really sells the scenes where 'Kirk in Lester' pretends to take a sedative then escapes to search out Spock and Bones.
It also interesting in the plot that it seems that the security Redshirts may actually have carried out the executions if Kirk/Lester hadn't swapped back in time, shades of the Stanford Prison or Milgram experiments?

 

[UnknownSample]

The strange feeI could never put my finger on is probably explained by a lack of extras in the corridors.

 

[Spock's Barber]

The strange feeI could never put my finger on is probably explained by a lack of extras in the corridors.

Yeah, it was like Kirk and his small party beamed onto the fake Enterprise from 'Mark of Gideon'. Almost totally deserted.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Of course, Chekov's reference to G-O-4 is one of TOS' many continuity errors, as there is ony the one dealth penalty, and that is specified by G-O-7.

 

[3D ChessMaster]

Of course, Chekov's reference to G-O-4 is one of TOS' many continuity errors, as there is ony the one dealth penalty, and that is specified by G-O-7.

Wouldn't Lester be justified in a death sentence on Kirk and Spock then as they both technically breached G O 7 during The Menagerie?

 

[UnknownSample]

Wouldn't Lester be justified in a death sentence on Kirk and Spock then as they both technically breached G O 7 during The Menagerie?

Damn it, you're right. How did they escape justice so long? Kirk and Spock must die!

 

[Push The Button]

The best part of this episode is the corridor conversation between Scotty and McCoy. The two old men aboard the ship, discussing how they're going to straighten this crazy s$&t out. Gold.

 

[The Old Mixer]

it's not terrible

High praise indeed.

 

[Marsden]

I'm going to make a few statements on this.

Almost every single other ship or captain shown besides Enterprise and Kirk had some terrible mishap and needed to be rescued, or was destroyed out right. If they cast a woman in one of those roles it would have been construed as a woman captain was inferior.

Another category is the villain captains. I think that also would be perceived, at the time, as a woman either "cracking under pressure" (Decker) or being untrustworthy of such a position (Tracey). Decker's nuttiness is one of the best things about "The Doomsday Machine" If replace with an actress, no matter how good, it would have been "poor thing, can't handle it" instead of Jim shaking him by the shoulders and yelling Snap out of it, Man!

If they had a woman giving Captain Kirk orders, it wouldn't have necessarily been seen as progress of women's equality but as a bossy woman telling our hero what to do, especially since Kirk ended up either modifying or even disregarding some orders because of the evolving situation.

For those rare times when the other ship shown or mentioned without need of rescue or befalling other tragedy, the captain was barely mentioned.
I don't remember the Yorktown's Captain at all, nor the Hood or Potemkin.
Any of them could be women, Vulcans, Andorians, or what have you. It's really speciest to assume it has to be a Human captain for each one.

 

[scotpens]

. . . What I can't stand about this episode is that the mutiny/execution bit went too far. And went on for far too long.

Like many third-season episodes, this one feels like a half-hour's worth of story padded out to an hour.

Wouldn't Lester be justified in a death sentence on Kirk and Spock then as they both technically breached G O 7 during The Menagerie?

At the end of "The Menagerie," Commodore Mendez (the real Mendez, via subspace radio from Starbase 11) declared that General Order 7 was suspended for the occasion and that no action would be taken against Spock.

 

[3D ChessMaster]

That spoils my idea for a space version of Alias Smith and Jones. With Kirk and Spock roaming incognito from adventure to adventure until they are given amnesty for General Order 7

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Wouldn't Lester be justified in a death sentence on Kirk and Spock then as they both technically breached G O 7 during The Menagerie?

Perhaps you are just trying to be funny...regardless, one flaw in that argument is that to sentence Lester to death because of Kirk's breach of G-O-7 would be to acknowledge that Kirk's consciousness is contained within Lester.

 

[Spock's Barber]

What did Janice say at the end......"I want you dead!" General Order 4 was her ticket to elimnating Kirk "legally".

 

[rRico]

Dr Lester is a shrill, unstable cartoon villain who lusts after a man's powerful job

Dr. Lester would make a great captain in the Mirror-Universe.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Dr. Lester would make a great captain in the Mirror-Universe.

Okay THAT I could get on board with (heh heh, sorry) if they did her justice. If they made her competent and her motives weren't solely revenge against Kirk for being a man and all that silliness. That could be cool.