Tucker's Demotion

[Hopeful Romantic]

^^ I was merely pointing out that, aside from Trip's initial objection in the Decon scene (before T'Pol proved that she would stay true to the captain's orders and intentions if she took command), everyone appeared to accept T'Pol as de facto XO, no matter what it was that landed her in the position. I don't remember any resentment, any muttering, any protestations that Trip outranked her, any requests by crew members that someone else deserved the position and she should be replaced.

No complaints among the characters, anyway.

 

[Red Ranger]

I always had a problem with the Romulan/Vulcan ranking system, notably, the use of Subcommander. It should've been established that "Subcommander" and "Commander" were titles, and then they could've had either fictional or Army ranks (Major, Colonel, etc.). Then, T'Pol could've been a full Colonel, and then she would outrank Trip. -- RR

 

[Red Ranger]

^^ I was merely pointing out that, aside from Trip's initial objection in the Decon scene (before T'Pol proved that she would stay true to the captain's orders and intentions if she took command), everyone appeared to accept T'Pol as de facto XO, no matter what it was that landed her in the position. I don't remember any resentment, any muttering, any protestations that Trip outranked her, any requests by crew members that someone else deserved the position and she should be replaced.

No complaints among the characters, anyway.

Well, they're supposed to be Starfleet officers, and most of them were junior officers anyway, trained to follow the chain of command. As I recall, even in TOS, there was a minimum of grumbling when Commodore Decker took command in The Doomsday Machine, or when Commodore Stocker took over in The Deadly Years. Who knows, T'Pol might not have been the first Vulcan to ever serve on a Starfleet ship in that time fram. -- RR

 

[Nerys Myk]

^^ I was merely pointing out that, aside from Trip's initial objection in the Decon scene (before T'Pol proved that she would stay true to the captain's orders and intentions if she took command), everyone appeared to accept T'Pol as de facto XO, no matter what it was that landed her in the position. I don't remember any resentment, any muttering, any protestations that Trip outranked her, any requests by crew members that someone else deserved the position and she should be replaced.

No complaints among the characters, anyway.

Well, they're supposed to be Starfleet officers, and most of them were junior officers anyway, trained to follow the chain of command. As I recall, even in TOS, there was a minimum of grumbling when Commodore Decker took command in The Doomsday Machine, or when Commodore Stocker took over in The Deadly Years. Who knows, T'Pol might not have been the first Vulcan to ever serve on a Starfleet ship in that time fram. -- RR

Wasn't there a line somewhere indicating that Vulcans and humans had served together in the past, with less than stellar results?

 

[TheOriginalGuru]

I'm not sure how much rank plays into it, to tell the truth.

After all, after Kirk's demotion, both Spock and Scott held the rank of Captain. It's whomever the Captain assigns to the position of first officer, I guess.

Same as the Enterprise-D. Riker and Dr Crusher both held the rank of Commander. As did Troi in season 7 of TNG - but you couldn't imagine her as the first officer, could you? lol

 

[commodore64]

Ranks: Captain Archer, Subcomannder T'Pol and then Commander Tucker in that order.

In Broken Bow, when Archer is hurt, Tucker bends to T'Pol's authority and they follow her orders. Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[JiNX-01]

Ranks: Captain Archer, Subcomannder T'Pol and then Commander Tucker in that order.

In Broken Bow, when Archer is hurt, Tucker bends to T'Pol's authority and they follow her orders. Seems pretty clear to me.

Her orders were to do what Archer would want. So why wouldn't he go along?

OTOH, when T'Pol declares her intention to abandon Archer on the helix, Trip gets in her face and angrily challenges her. Clearly, he was not acknowledging her as his superior officer. Nor do I recall her threatening him with a charge of insubordination or him backing down.

 

[Major Chord]

Personally, I think it made sense to give T'Pol the 2IC position. On any ship, the engineer's place is in Engineering. On a prototype ship like Enterprise, I'd suspect that this holds even more true. And, judging by how Tucker was portrayed, I don't think he wanted command all that much. He obviously didn't despise it, but he seemed much more comfortable in the engine room than on the bridge in the center seat.

It seems to me that at the time of Broken Bow, Starfleet was a far less formal organization than the Starfleet of the 23rd or 24th century, where rank mattered less than ability. If the captain was taken out of action (if T'Pol wasn't in the picture), I could easily see another bridge officer like Reed taking command until the ship is out of danger, then having Tucker take over as "acting captain" later.

Tucker would be an ideal first officer in the respect that he seemed like a people person, and if I'm not mistaken, it's normally the job of the First Officer to voice all crew concerns to the captain, and give evaluations, and the like. The XO is tasked with the well being of the crew. However, I can easily see this as the reason T'Pol was allowed to fill that role. What better way to get to understand the intricacies of humans than to interact with them that closely on a regular basis?

 

[ALF]

A practical question - how exactly can one engineer who spends his entire workday in engineering be an XO?

There's the answer. He couldn't. Clearly T'Pol would be of better use as first officer whereas Trip should have been in the engine room.

 

[Bluesteel]

I think it was his horrible English. I bet all the candidates he beat feel terrible.

 

[NXOner]

Couldn't T'Pol have been 'Executive Officer' thereby circumventing the First Office thing? As with Decker in ST-TMP.

 

[Timo]

"XO" and "First Officer" are just two names for the same thing, in all the real-world navies at least. They depict the guy or gal who's second in command and helps manage the ship for the CO.

When the Enterprise left dock in "Broken Bow", she was obviously lacking a First Officer. She was lacking a dozen other important things, too: no Science Officer aboard, no Chief of Security, no phase cannon... Which was only understandable. After all, the ship was expected to perform an eight-day milk run to a nearby star system and back. T'Pol was aboard as an observer that Starfleet didn't want aboard and Vulcan High Command didn't want to be helpful to Starfleet.

When Archer decided he didn't want to return home after all, he was left with a ship short of key officers. T'Pol had shown her willingness and competence to be the Science Officer and the Executive Officer both, and she was probably far more experienced in both roles than anybody else aboard, Tucker certainly included. And Trip never wanted to be the XO, either.

It makes perfect sense, insofar as dramatic convolutions do. Archer did the best he could with the officer material he had. Had he returned to Earth for a refill, Vulcans would no doubt have ruined everything, dictating terms on what the ship could do and with what sort of officers and crew. By staying out there, Archer forced the situation, and thus preserved Earth's sovereignty, even if it meant enrolling a Vulcan national as a de facto XO for the ship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

^^ Best explanation I've read, Timo. Thanks.

 

[commodore64]

Her orders were to do what Archer would want. So why wouldn't he go along?

Remembering back, Trip and T'Pol argued about what to do. Trip was pretty sure she wasn't going to do what Archer wanted and put up a fuss until she indicated what her order was. Then he backed off and bowed to her authority, almost quite literally.

When Archer finds out T'Pol took control of his ship, he is surprised, mostly because she did what he wanted. I don't recall him ever saying, "Why did she usurp Trip?!"

Further in Cogenitor, T'Pol tells Trip several times an order that Archer backs up. I think Archer agreed, but it seemed pretty clear to me there was a command line: T'Pol (XO, first officer) and then Trip and then Reed ....

 

[gblews]

Further in Cogenitor, T'Pol tells Trip several times an order that Archer backs up.

Just curious here, haven't seen the episode in a while, to what order are you referring?

 

[Tallis Rhul]

This is one of the things that made the first season of Enterprise really enjoyable actually. Yes, they ARE apples and oranges, it's also totally arbitrary that T'Pol decides that Subcommander in the Vulcan command heirarchy is higher than Commander in its Starfleet counterpart. The "sub" by logic alone dictates that is kinda shouldn't be

However, once this decision's up and running... they bully the living CRAP out of T'Pol! I felt sorry for her (even though she kinda didn't care being Vulcan and not expressing emotions and all). On many occasions she was openly mocked by Archer and Trip, which was a bit harsh considering she actually sacrificed a fair amount to stay and help them out...