Spoilers TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread
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My biggest problem with Martin's writing is shall motivations and very stilted, unnatural dialogue.
Why all the hate? I liked the Romulan war books, and Seize the Fire, the STO book was good too not great but good. Constructive criticism is one thing but the catcalls from the peanut gallery is another. Especially the ones who admit to not having read this most recent book.
It's true Martin and Mangels write better together because their skills complement each other. Complaining that separately their writing isn't quite as good is like complaining that the Olympic team sets a higher standard than the professional teams the players are gotten from.
It's true Martin and Mangels write better together because their skills complement each other. Complaining that separately their writing isn't quite as good is like complaining that the Olympic team sets a higher standard than the professional teams the players are gotten from.
I've definitely read the most recent book, and I think this criticism is absolutely fair. I'm allowed to complain if I want to; Andy stopped writing with him, and his books got less good. Worse than basically any of the rest of them for the last couple years. Pointing that out is legitimate.
Especially since it was, it appears, Michael's choice to stop writing with Andy. Andy has been very diplomatic talking about it a couple times, but I get the feeling that the ending of that partnership was completely Michael and Andy was as surprised as anyone else.
To be honest Seize the Fire was the worst of the Typhon Pact books. It's one reason I won't be buying this one....
I read half of his most recent book, it was terrible.
And you are entitled to your opinion just as we are entitled to ours. However, as Thrawn pointed out, Martin's books have been rated comparitively low here. At Amazon.com, his books aren't well reviewed either.
Catcalls from the peanut gallery? Are we mocking or trying to provoke Mr Martin? No. We've read his books and made our judgements based upon past experience.
I believe I've read all of Martin's trek works, including Seize the Fire. And I had forgotten about the STO book which was just plain terrible. However, I don't even judge Martin by that one because what I hated most about it was the way it was formatted- as series of interviews. Since I believe that was an editorial decision, I don't critize him for that.
I do think Martin conceives very interesting plots and has great love for Star Trek. However, I have witnessed his execution consistantly fail my expectations and deliver a underwhelming reading experience while authors whose works I love like David Mack and Peter David have always exceeded my expectations to the point I will buy a book authored by them only on the merits of their name on the cover. Other authors like David R George and Christopher Bennett usually write books I love but have delivered a few books I didn't enjoy so based upon my enjoying them most of the time, I don't hesitate to pick up their latest book.
I must be over the minority but I like the series. What gets me is the long wait between books. I get that with the Typhon Pact series taking center stage, other books of the 24th century will have to be put on hold but gosh, 33 freaking months? Come on, I'm dying here. I'm glad Titan and Voyager have books coming back-to-back.
I haven't read the book as it hasn't come yet but as I'm all caught up on the 24th literature, when it does arrive, I will jump right in. I'm hopeful the novel will keep up the winning streak of books set in the TNG era.
I haven't read the book as it hasn't come yet but as I'm all caught up on the 24th literature, when it does arrive, I will jump right in. I'm hopeful the novel will keep up the winning streak of books set in the TNG era.
^I love the series, too. i don't think any of us who have said we aren't buying this book have said we don't love Titan.
Titan is a great series. Titan and Voyager are the series carrying the tradition of exploration while many other books have dealt with political issues and keeping the peace.
The disfavor is aimed at a writer, NOT titan.
Titan is a great series. Titan and Voyager are the series carrying the tradition of exploration while many other books have dealt with political issues and keeping the peace.
The disfavor is aimed at a writer, NOT titan.
Despite how it was labeled, Typhon Pact: Seize the Fire is a full-fledged Titan novel. It's really more a Titan novel than a Typhon Pact novel, because the fact that the Gorn are members of the Pact is only a peripheral detail that gets mentioned a few times but has very little impact on the story.
Really, that was the idea of the first few TP books -- to be in the vein of old crossovers like Invasion! or Section 31, a group of standalone adventures in the various series that were loosely linked by a common element or theme. One is unambiguously TTN, one novel (and one e-novella) is unambiguously TNG, one is unambiguously DS9, and only one is kind of a hybrid that's hard to pin down. It's only the more recent Typhon Pact books that are full-on multi-series crossovers.
And it's not like anything has been "put on hold" either. Since the Pact was introduced in A Singular Destiny, we've had plenty of 24th-century novels that weren't part of that series, including three VGR novels (with a fourth upcoming), two TNG novels (Losing the Peace and Indistinguishable from Magic), Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions, three non-TP-labeled TTN novels (counting the new one), two DTI novels, and a couple of New Frontier novels. Plus there's a whole TNG trilogy coming up soon.
So I don't get where this perception comes from that the Typhon Pact has monopolized the 24th-century novels. Since the debut of the Pact, and counting upcoming 2012 books, non-TP 24th-century books have outnumbered TP-related books by roughly 2 to 1.
FWIW, I did try to leave room for this in my opening blurb by mentioning the 20-months-ago Seize the Fire after the 33-months-ago Synthesis, but not having read the books yet I was unsure myself about where the Pact ends and the Titan begins, so to speak, that's why I didn't confidently frame it that way. And I guess that's ultimately the takeaway - for those who don't have the benefit of reading the long explanation here or some other substitute research, the branding is open to misinterpretation.
Now, this is all a bit moot to discuss as long as the books under the TP banner sell well, which I presume they do, making it one of the reasons it keeps being used along with other editorial concerns. I'm still happy they're keeping the individual brands alive, too, though, just to not have all the eggs in one basket, marketing-wise.
Now, this is all a bit moot to discuss as long as the books under the TP banner sell well, which I presume they do, making it one of the reasons it keeps being used along with other editorial concerns. I'm still happy they're keeping the individual brands alive, too, though, just to not have all the eggs in one basket, marketing-wise.
Christopher, I really admire your patience. I have seen you explaining this so clearly so many times on the forum, and still people don't seem to get it. The fact that you remain so calm, is admirable.
Perhaps you could make a topic explaining all this, then have the mods close it and make it a sticky. This way, you don't have to re-explain something that's so simple every single time, and only copy and paste the link to the sticky.
I don't think it was the reaction was that bad. Most of the posters seemed to have fairly clear criticisms about Martin. It's not like they were all calling him an idiot who can't write or something else along those lines.
Even there, I would argue that Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn are really Deep Space Nine novels. Yeah, the Enterprise crew appears, but they're mostly guest stars -- the Deep Space 9 crew is the center around which those novels pivot.
^Yeah, good point. I initially had PoN/RtD listed in my personal chronology as not series-specific beyond Typhon Pact, but after finishing the duology, I realized it worked better to categorize the whole thing as DS9. I even retroactively moved Rough Beasts of Empire there, since the three books pretty much form a trilogy. It's not a perfect fit, but a reasonable one.
Rough Beasts of Empire is a tough one to classify. Even given that Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn were essentially DSN novels, I find myself thinking that Spock was the pivot around which the main action of Rough Beasts turned, with Sisko really as a supporting character. So I'm inclined to classify it as either a TOS/DSN crossover, or a TOS novel with a DSN subplot.
I wouldn't say that just including Spock makes something a TOS novel. After all, adding Worf to DS9 didn't make it TNG. And "Unification" was a TNG episode, not a TOS episode. TOS is the whole situation and cast, not just one member of it. Not to mention that Spock's ambassadorial role and involvement with Romulus are plot threads arising from TNG, so if anything, RBoE owes more to TNG than to TOS.
So I wouldn't call it a DS9/TOS novel; I'd call it a DS9/Ambassador Spock novel.
So I wouldn't call it a DS9/TOS novel; I'd call it a DS9/Ambassador Spock novel.
When Titan started I loved it. Exploration in Star Trek, what a concept! The first two books were tying up loose ends from a number of sources but then it was full on Strange New Worlds. Boo-yah!
Then somebody decided that Michael Martin should write Titan and things went downhill fast. Titan went from must read to wtf? to sorry, no. Until somebody who can actually write a compelling exploration story takes over the series Titan is off my list.
There's very few authors who's names on the cover guarantees that I won't buy it. Diane Carey is one. Michael Martin is now another.
Then somebody decided that Michael Martin should write Titan and things went downhill fast. Titan went from must read to wtf? to sorry, no. Until somebody who can actually write a compelling exploration story takes over the series Titan is off my list.
There's very few authors who's names on the cover guarantees that I won't buy it. Diane Carey is one. Michael Martin is now another.