Spoilers TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread
- Thread starter Sho
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Yikes!Does anyone remember when Trek and Treklit were fun?
Adventures with people you would like to be friends with.
Does anyone have any affection for any of the Titan crew?
For such an initally fun and freewheeling commander like Riker,boy does he run a dull ship.
Adventures with people you would like to be friends with.
Does anyone have any affection for any of the Titan crew?
For such an initally fun and freewheeling commander like Riker,boy does he run a dull ship.
This crew COULD be so much fun, though. There are so many interesting ideas for characters among the aliens. They just haven't been written well lately. Even Synthesis was pretty good on its own but casting everyone as really sort of paranoid and dark compounded the sense of dour unhappiness that seems to plague this series.
I'm saying, get KRAD in here. Or David McIntee. Or Kirsten Beyer, if she'd want to write anything besides Voyager. Or even David Mack, but writing a funny novel instead of a brain shattering one; he's written some of the funniest things in TrekLit (like the Kebron story in the NF story collection). Christopher is one of my very favorite writers, but he's definitely prone to soul-searching deep profound narratives, and between him and Swallow's action-oriented paranoia and Martin's humorlessness, this crew never comes off as any fun to be a part of.
I'm saying, get KRAD in here. Or David McIntee. Or Kirsten Beyer, if she'd want to write anything besides Voyager. Or even David Mack, but writing a funny novel instead of a brain shattering one; he's written some of the funniest things in TrekLit (like the Kebron story in the NF story collection). Christopher is one of my very favorite writers, but he's definitely prone to soul-searching deep profound narratives, and between him and Swallow's action-oriented paranoia and Martin's humorlessness, this crew never comes off as any fun to be a part of.
Just finished this one. Sigh.
I voted average, because it is so painfully average. I agree with the previous comments here: characterization has taken a step backwards (why is Ra-Havreii still fretting about the Luna? STILL?). Pava didn't impress me as a character. I didn't care for how the Andorians were portrayed; for a species that were a founding member of the Federation and its core ideals, they sort of dropped all of that pretty fast, didn't they? And I get that they are facing extinction, but there's not one ounce of emotional depth from the Therin's crew... I kept waiting for their commander to start laughing with a maniacal "MUHAHAHAHAHA!".
The Ta'ithan species were also cardboard representations, like the Hranrar species from Seize the Fire. The world-building that Titan has been known for has been extremely watered down over these past two novels (which is a shame, considering their excellent predecessor, Synthesis). Oh, and SecondGen White-Blue, whom I really liked, sacrifices himself off-screen with just Tuvok to fill in the details. WTF?
I'll say this: Fallen Gods was better than Seize the Fire, but only just. It's not an awful novel (even if the prologue is rough to get through), and it provides some interesting developments in the wake of the ongoing Typhon Pact storyline. Riker provides an interesting solution to the Andorian crew situation (which was one of the better pieces of the novel, since the solution perfectly aligns with his character). But the prose is flat and at times stilted.
The "wow factor" hasn't been there these past two novels. I hope that we get a different writer for the next Titan novel. One of TrekLit's best series has gone into a slump and I hope the editor makes moves to correct it.
I voted average, because it is so painfully average. I agree with the previous comments here: characterization has taken a step backwards (why is Ra-Havreii still fretting about the Luna? STILL?). Pava didn't impress me as a character. I didn't care for how the Andorians were portrayed; for a species that were a founding member of the Federation and its core ideals, they sort of dropped all of that pretty fast, didn't they? And I get that they are facing extinction, but there's not one ounce of emotional depth from the Therin's crew... I kept waiting for their commander to start laughing with a maniacal "MUHAHAHAHAHA!".
The Ta'ithan species were also cardboard representations, like the Hranrar species from Seize the Fire. The world-building that Titan has been known for has been extremely watered down over these past two novels (which is a shame, considering their excellent predecessor, Synthesis). Oh, and SecondGen White-Blue, whom I really liked, sacrifices himself off-screen with just Tuvok to fill in the details. WTF?
I'll say this: Fallen Gods was better than Seize the Fire, but only just. It's not an awful novel (even if the prologue is rough to get through), and it provides some interesting developments in the wake of the ongoing Typhon Pact storyline. Riker provides an interesting solution to the Andorian crew situation (which was one of the better pieces of the novel, since the solution perfectly aligns with his character). But the prose is flat and at times stilted.
The "wow factor" hasn't been there these past two novels. I hope that we get a different writer for the next Titan novel. One of TrekLit's best series has gone into a slump and I hope the editor makes moves to correct it.
So - it seems the current andorian development will be excused by them being under heavy tholian mind-control.
Better than what was painted so far in the books - which was the andorians having a moral inversion 'just because'. Unfortunately, this 'better' is not saying much:
I liked the andorian development in star trek: Enterprise.
But their showing in the 'typhon pact' line is them being either moustache-twisting villains or people with such a coherence/logic in thought that they developing interstellar travel makes the pakled similar achievement credible - and now, them being mere puppets, controlled by their betters.
And there's also the fact that mind control for shock value - and for eventual redemption/reset - is heavily used as a troupe in SF - and, as such, not engrossing.
The DS9 relaunch itself used the exact same troupe (with the "difference" of having the applied phlebotinum be parasites as opposed to tholian technology).
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'Grammar nazi' style hair-splitting. Is this really all you could find?
My arguments must be more compelling than I thought.
^ Damn, your original version (which I got in the notification email) read "semantic hairsplitting", and I was not going to be able to resist the sweet irony of pointing out that semantics is about meaning rather than orthography. Then again, grammar isn't about orthography either. But it lacks punch now! 
I was just correcting a mistake; I thought you'd want to be accurate since you always talk about how painstakingly backed up by facts your arguments are.
I hated this book, I didn't disagree with anything you said about it. I liked the Andorian story in the other books, but this thread isn't really the place for that anyway.
Don't read a hostile tone into a simple correction next time, ok?
^ Damn, your original version (which I got in the notification email) read "semantic hairsplitting", and I was not going to be able to resist the sweet irony of pointing out that semantics is about meaning rather than orthography. Then again, grammar isn't about orthography either. But it lacks punch now!
Fell free to point it out, Sho:
'Grammar nazi' is more widely used, and, as such, has less punch than 'vocabulary nazi' or 'orthography nazi' - choices immediately available to me in response.
PS
If I left my post with 'semantic hairsplitting'? My response to you pointing out that 'semantic hairsplitting' does not really fit would involve pointing out the irony that it fits perfectly as a characterization for your post.
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Backed by arguments (established facts, deductions, reasonable inductions, etc), yes.
That's a different thing than being annaly sure my post is gamatically/orthographycally correct. This is an issue quite different from arguments/proof. In this area, my standards for posts written on a bbs are rather lax.
Considering its developments in this book, the andorian plot-line is fair game for discussion in this thread.
Regarding grammar and orthography - speaking as a linguist, I can tell you that proper spelling and grammar is a powerful signaling tool for other people about how seriously you take them and yourself on a messageboard such as this. You tend to get a pretty hostile reception to your posting, which I'm sure you've noticed. I'm assuming that you don't enjoy that, so I suspect that if you made a greater effort to be exact in these areas, people would likely take you more seriously when you claimed that your arguments were made with similar care.
I'm not intending to criticize; it's just sometimes difficult for people to realize how they appear to others (myself included). By virtue of your incorrect use of language, your posts often seem amateur-ish, which probably leads people to take them less seriously. I'm sure you're an intelligent and capable person, but it doesn't LOOK that way at first glance, if that makes any sense. As you can probably tell by looking around, the social norm on this board is to pay close attention to these things. When you don't, it comes across as disrespectful, which I'm sure isn't what you intend.
Either way, back to the Andorians, given that this novel takes place a year before Raise The Dawn, I'm sort of hoping that Raise The Dawn is more the direction that story is ultimately going, and not this. Everything about the Andorians in this book was completely stupid.
I'm not intending to criticize; it's just sometimes difficult for people to realize how they appear to others (myself included). By virtue of your incorrect use of language, your posts often seem amateur-ish, which probably leads people to take them less seriously. I'm sure you're an intelligent and capable person, but it doesn't LOOK that way at first glance, if that makes any sense. As you can probably tell by looking around, the social norm on this board is to pay close attention to these things. When you don't, it comes across as disrespectful, which I'm sure isn't what you intend.
Either way, back to the Andorians, given that this novel takes place a year before Raise The Dawn, I'm sort of hoping that Raise The Dawn is more the direction that story is ultimately going, and not this. Everything about the Andorians in this book was completely stupid.
Finally, something on subject!
M Martin - the author - was pretty explicit (as in directly/unequivocally stating it) in a previous interview that the plan for the andorians was to join the typhon pact in this book.
The fact that this did not come to pass indicates either that the author did not know what he was talking about (unlikely) or that he was 'talked' out of it.
The - editorial? - choice for the andorian plot seems to require them not to fall beyond the redemption event horizon.
The setting up scenes for the mind-control explanation to the andorian aggressivity are obvious in this book.
Meaning - the future of this plot line is rather obvious. The federates (future DS9 relaunch cast, probably) with help from a token andorian save the andorian people from The Mule-style mind control, all ending with a happy rejoining of the federation family.
Sort of like bajor and the bajoran parasites, only with different names - well, some different names.
That's what you get when you use already overused tropes.
I really don't think that the events of Paths Of Disharmony will turn out to have been caused by mind control - is that what you're suggesting? Have you read the scenes that concern that in this novel? Because, crap as this novel was, I don't think that's what they were implying at all.
The scenes were establishing the tholians have a mind control tech highly effective on the andorians - and used on quite a few andorians in sensitive positions, immediately after Paths of disharmony (and this is only the morsel we got to know so far).
The situation could only be worse for the andorian free-will, a few years afterwards.
And, given that these scenes had no impact on the rest of the book, they are almost certainly dictated from the editorial/etc above, for continuation of the meta-andorian plot-line.
The situation could only be worse for the andorian free-will, a few years afterwards.
And, given that these scenes had no impact on the rest of the book, they are almost certainly dictated from the editorial/etc above, for continuation of the meta-andorian plot-line.
How do you get that from this:
"It has been used successfully on Andorian test subjects." ... "To make those test subjects especially susceptible to suggestion."
In fact, later on in the same scene he even complains about the Andorian ruling council, which seems to me like it paints him as a rogue, and indicates that the ruling council is not under Tholian control.