If I'm not mistaken, in "The Loss", Dr. Crusher tells Troi to talk to someone, and that there are a number of certified therapists on board.
Troi the only counselor?
- Thread starter 2of1million
- Start date
Crusher doesn't specify that Troi should talk to a qualified therapist, though - only to a psychologist, which is a completely different thing.
Crusher also jokes that
Since she doesn't send Troi to anybody, it would rather appear there is no heir to that throne aboard, now wouldn't it?
And Guinan (whom Troi ends up talking to) claims that Troi is the one and only therapist aboard, although her truthfulness is highly suspect as usual.
Timo Saloniemi
Crusher also jokes that
Since she doesn't send Troi to anybody, it would rather appear there is no heir to that throne aboard, now wouldn't it?
And Guinan (whom Troi ends up talking to) claims that Troi is the one and only therapist aboard, although her truthfulness is highly suspect as usual.
Timo Saloniemi
2of1million said:
This has been bugging me! Recently I have watched the 4th season episode "The Loss". In that one Deanna loses her empathic abilities and because of it wants to resign. Guinan then says that would mean there would be no counselor on board. So are they trying to tell me that Troi is the only counselor on board a ship with over 1000 people?? I find that hard to believe. I'd hope there are other counselors for a ship that big.
Who needs a counselor anyway. I think Ezri would be a better counselor for the Enterprise, too...
They definetly need at least the one strong counsellor. She also has a lot to do with activities and such with the civilians and children on board. I picture it as being Troi doing most of the psychologist type work, especially of the crew, but with some support staff, who may or may not be Starfleet. Schoolteachers for instance. Then she also has her bridge time, and in the end, ends up taking a shift in the big chair now and then. So I think Troi would be busy enough.
I'm still waiting for my appointment. The list is long...
I'm still waiting for my appointment. The list is long...
Very informative, Timo, and it pretty much agrees with what I was saying. I agree with those who think that Troi would be the only dedicated counselor, with others possibly aiding in some of her duties. It was a conceit of this show that a starship even needed a counselor. As either Ron Moore or David Eick said, "Only in the '80s would you have a therapist sitting next to the captain on the bridge."
As much as I like Troi and disagree with those who say she only ever stated the obvious, it's painful to see just how poorly her character is written. Even the episodes that could've utilized her character in a professional way deferred to either Data
or Picard.The thing is, Troi was probably created as a character who could comment on human-psychology in a broad way. Ie. the drive to improve etc, but in the end these points were left to Picard or Data.
Evenso, she was a character with a great deal of potential. For instance, she could've easily been made into a xeno-psychology expert and a diplomate/mediator much like Picard was but then taking second chair or taking over all together when Picard was unavailable or the situation deemed too dangerous for him. We see glimpses of this type of character in First Contact (the episode), one of the early episodes of season 3, where the Enterprise is held captive by a xenophobic race and Picard talks his way out of it due to some technicality in the contract, Face of the Enemy, Timescape and a handful more.
Overall, I feel her character suffered because the writers didn't know how to handle her, but also because as time wore on, more and more of the spotlight was given to Data. Leaving an android with more insight to the crew's motivation than the onboard empath
A good deal of it was no doubt driven by the realities of TV production. What looks good on paper can go in a completely different direction based on what the actors bring on-camera. Troi babbling on in that put-on accent was painful...who could blame the writers for short-shrifting her in favor of giving Stewart and Spiner more dialogue?
Oh, I don't know. There seems to be a couple of Troi episodes every season, plus the Troi's Mother episode.
I don't think the character was under-written, compared to the others.
But as for Stewart and Spiner, well who can argue with that point. I think their characters really came into thei r own first, and Data was a focus from the get-go, regardless of Sirtis's Troi developing.
Following this line, I feel the strongest character portrayals were Picard, Data, Worf, Guinan, Barclay, and then Riker/Troi/Geordi/Crusher/O'Brien all about equal.
I don't think the character was under-written, compared to the others.
But as for Stewart and Spiner, well who can argue with that point. I think their characters really came into thei r own first, and Data was a focus from the get-go, regardless of Sirtis's Troi developing.
Following this line, I feel the strongest character portrayals were Picard, Data, Worf, Guinan, Barclay, and then Riker/Troi/Geordi/Crusher/O'Brien all about equal.
Useless character.
Never should have made it to the screen.
Never should have made it to the screen.
Flattering, this uniform is...
It would be sensible for Troi to have someone SHE could talk to. It helps (most would say it's necessary, especially with psychodynamic psychotherapy) but it's never really clear what sort of model Troi actually uses. If it's purely counselling rather than therapy, I guess she could manage with just Crusher to talk to.
I don't like counselors in Star Trek.
I prefer characters to discuss their problems with each other, rather than making an appointment with the ship's therapist. Granted, yes it makes sense for a counselor to be aboard a ship, but I feel it adds more depth to characters and strengthens relationships between them to talk to each other.
I prefer characters to discuss their problems with each other, rather than making an appointment with the ship's therapist. Granted, yes it makes sense for a counselor to be aboard a ship, but I feel it adds more depth to characters and strengthens relationships between them to talk to each other.
Given the community-in-space nature of the Galaxy class, it certainly makes sense to have a therapist on board...but it was a conceit of this show that said character would be a main cast member and have a seat next to the captain on the bridge. If Troi hadn't had special powers--and such powers were not supposed to be a requirement for the job--would the captain really need an officer dedicated to helping him "read" people? Seems like that's something that he and his first officer should be well trained in.
I think the fact that Troi was an empath did the character a dis-service because the writers often seemed to confuse her empathy and her ability to do her job. She's badly written on all fronts, except for a few notable exceptions when I find myself warming to her. I like Troi when she has moments of hardness. Maybe that's because it's a refreshing different side to her character, or because Marina can act it better.
...Regarding whether a slightly different Troi would have had a place on the bridge, I'd argue in general that Picard-like important captains of big ships can and will extensively "customize" their bridge crews.
Picard might be the only captain in the Fleet with a counselor on the bridge. Or a combined Tactical/Security chief. Other skippers might not have an Ops station on the bridge, because their Ops departments require two rooms and 24 people to do the job Data handles solo.
Varley might have been the only one with an archaeology genius there; Keogh might have been unique in having a whole separate bridge alcove dedicated to tactical analysis; Keel might have chosen never to be on the same bridge with his XO. We just don't know because we only concentrated on Picard's bridge.
Timo Saloniemi
Picard might be the only captain in the Fleet with a counselor on the bridge. Or a combined Tactical/Security chief. Other skippers might not have an Ops station on the bridge, because their Ops departments require two rooms and 24 people to do the job Data handles solo.
Varley might have been the only one with an archaeology genius there; Keogh might have been unique in having a whole separate bridge alcove dedicated to tactical analysis; Keel might have chosen never to be on the same bridge with his XO. We just don't know because we only concentrated on Picard's bridge.
Timo Saloniemi
^That's the best rationalization for a lot of bridge-staff related problems I've ever seen, Timo, and could explain why Kirk had a combined First/Science Officer where Picard had an exclusive First Officer, why Worf was a 'strategic ops' office, and other dramatically driven weirdness.
...Picard would also face political pressures when casting the bridge crew of the Federation Flagship. Worf might have been burdened on him by high-level decree, for example. And Starfleet might have considered it a splendid idea to have the daughter of a certain Betazed noblewoman and ambassador aboard, too.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
