Beautifully said, Chris. Welcome to the Trip/T'Pol thread. Glad you shared your thoughts about our favorite couple. 
Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do
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I’ll give my two cents and maybe others will jump in as well.
I think the last T/T scene works on a number of levels. While Archer’s scene (with the Coalition reps) showcases the forging of interspecies alliances at the macro-level, the T/T scene seems to reflect the same interspecies unity, but at a more personal, micro-level. In addition, I think the scene was intended to give some sense of progress to the T/T relationship and individual developmental arcs. So we see T’Pol, who started out with a somewhat arrogant, hypercritical view of humans, and Trip, who previously had a rather parochial view of other cultures, united, reaching out to each other, and taking comfort in the idea that a child of dual heritage like their Elizabeth might come to be and thrive in the future. Also, relationship-wise, we see T/T take a step beyond the angst and issues of the past to unite in their grief and hope for the future.
The imagery in that scene is powerful as well. T’Pol, who has struggled with her emotions and sense of identity, actually seems to project a sense of balance as she sits in her Vulcan robes but still reaches out to an emotional Trip. And the two hands clasped over the IDIC is a powerful symbol of both their unity and hope for the future.
Well, in certain interviews, Manny Coto mentioned that he considered Terra Prime to be more of a season/series conclusion for ENT (with TATV as more of a franchise finale) and indicated that he wanted the series to end majestically and in a way that was classic Star Trek. With that in mind, I think perhaps he wanted to end on a positive, hopeful note while leaving open possibilities for the future – and to me, that’s what I see in those last two scenes. Here are some comments he made about the T/T relationship (relative to the last few episodes) in an interview shortly before the finale aired.
Re: the handclasp, I’m not sure if that was an ad-lib by Jolene or if it was one of those scripted, last minute changes during filming, but it does bookend nicely with that first T/T meeting in Broken Bow.
Welcome, Chris. It’s great to see new fans of ENT here.
Yes, there is a certain degree of foot dragging that seems to occur with these romantic pairings in potentially long running series (Ross/Rachel, Harm/Mac, etc.) – I guess the writers don’t want to resolve things too quickly, but if it goes on too long, the lack of resolution becomes frustrating as well. To me, it seemed like the issue with T/T wasn’t necessarily whether to continue the relationship, but when and how to clearly define it. It seemed like the writers had opportunities to kill the relationship if they had wanted to do so, and yet, they continued it as a significant storyline for both characters up until the end. And in the process (as Jolene indicated), it seemed they tried to walk a line and at times ended up treading water or telling the same story over and over – “will they/ won’t they admit their feelings” or a “one step forward, two steps back” type of dynamic.
What’s ironic is that (as mentioned earlier) Jolene seemed to have a more favorable view of the relationship in S4 and even up to Terra Prime seemed to be expecting a positive outcome. But then she (and the other cast members as well) apparently were blindsided by B&B’s ending in TATV.
And even though I think the S4 angst was a bit overdone at times, I do give Manny Coto credit for trying to bring some definition to the relationship (e.g., the bond) and at least positioning the characters to move forward.
Nicely stated. There is something appealing to me as well about seeing diverse characters overcome personal challenges and demons to forge a relationship despite seemingly overwhelming outside forces. (I liked that element about Aragorn/Arwen as well.) I just wish we had seen more of the “relationship forging” with T/T. Oh well, I still hope to see something like that in the coming novels.
Edited for clarity
TTB: you just made my day. Thanks for that great explaination. I know that a lot of these questions have probably been asked a million times before, but you (and others on this board) have been so great to restate for us newbies. I'm going to snurch that quote by Coto btw...it's just too shippy for me to pass up on.
Well said Tothe bridge I think you summed so well what was special about Trip & T'Pol and Chris as well welcome Chris.They're so fascinating to watch like Breaking Ice the big impact Trip had on T'Pol with Trip confessing he read her letter he apologizes and then the conversation they have later on when he tells her she has lived long enough with humans that she's free to chose she refuses to marry Koss. And Trip and T'Pol share a secret between them and her trust for confiding in Trip begins with this episode.I like the end scene she's in her quarters and has a piece of Peacan Pie.
I just hope that with the forthcoming novels, (which, I'll admit, I've just started reading) we don't get some sappy nonsense, just because the writers feel like clarifying things.
It is possible to brings two characters together in fiction while not jeopardizing the foundation that each character is built upon. One can write organically.
It is possible to brings two characters together in fiction while not jeopardizing the foundation that each character is built upon. One can write organically.
Well, let me ask everyone this...Is Last Full Measure worth a read? I haven't taken a look at it. I'm about half of the way through TGTMD right now. So...Last Full Measure. Anyone?
Last Full meaure it's important to read the prolog and the epilog it sets up events for the Enterprise relaunch and future stories in upcoming books.Last Full measure takes place during season3 right before the episode Anomaly.I don't want to spoil it since you haven't read it but to answer your question yes you need to read it find about Trip and what happened to him.
Like Reanok indicated, the prologue/epilogue of LFM and actually a few elements of the main story are linked to certain events in TGTMD. So, while not absolutely essential to understanding TGTMD, LFM does provide some additional context.
Have you read some of the earlier novels? Comparatively, I think LFM is a step up from some of the novels that came before in terms of characterization, and I enjoyed it quite a bit for that and other reasons. However, since the timeline for the story is sandwiched between "The Expanse" and "Anomaly" episodes, the writers (Martin & Mangels who also wrote TGTMD) might've been somewhat limited in how expansive they could be with characters and events.
Still, the main storylines were interesting to me, as were some of the character insights for Reed and Archer. And since one of the storylines focuses on Travis, I think his personality comes out more than in the tv series.
So, I'd say it's worth a read, but after reading TGTMD, you may find LFM a bit more limited in scope.
It probably depends on your definition of "sappy."
I don't expect anything along the lines of a Harlequin romance, but I'd expect the T/T relationship will continue to be explored (since it was a significant storyline) and there could be elements of "emotionality" and angst, considering their history and the circumstances as presented post "Terra Prime." I'll be interested to read your thoughts on TGTMD when you finish it.
MackDaddy said:
Hey guys ,i have a favorite cap ,from affliction ,here it is ,if someone can post it for me ,thanks
Hehehe, real cute...
I see T'Pol is anticipating her impending nuptials by wearing a wedding band ahead of time.
Nice pictures, MackDaddy -- especially the dancers. Gotta love those shoes "Trip" and "T'Pol" are wearing in the motorcycle one, too.
Almost forgot to post caps for the last part of the "Bound" corridor scene.
Aftermath of the kiss....
A bit of bravado from Trip?
Trip tells T'Pol that he actually requested a transfer back to ENT three days ago.
T'Pol seems a bit miffed about his little ruse.
But Trip goes on to say that ENT is where he belongs and this thing between them (i.e., the bond) isn't a big deal (but IIRC, the script notes say that they both know it is a big deal).
And as he starts to walk away, Trip says "I guess we got a lot of work to do," -- a dual meaning.
And T'Pol responds with a great range of expressions as she ponders his true meaning
and seems to realize that now that Trip's back
she's "happier" than she's been in awhile (as referenced in script notes).
Nice scene....
Almost forgot to post caps for the last part of the "Bound" corridor scene.
Aftermath of the kiss....
A bit of bravado from Trip?
Trip tells T'Pol that he actually requested a transfer back to ENT three days ago.
T'Pol seems a bit miffed about his little ruse.
But Trip goes on to say that ENT is where he belongs and this thing between them (i.e., the bond) isn't a big deal (but IIRC, the script notes say that they both know it is a big deal).
And as he starts to walk away, Trip says "I guess we got a lot of work to do," -- a dual meaning.
And T'Pol responds with a great range of expressions as she ponders his true meaning
and seems to realize that now that Trip's back
she's "happier" than she's been in awhile (as referenced in script notes).
Nice scene....
tothebridge said:
Like Reanok indicated, the prologue/epilogue of LFM and actually a few elements of the main story are linked to certain events in TGTMD. So, while not absolutely essential to understanding TGTMD, LFM does provide some additional context.
Have you read some of the earlier novels? Comparatively, I think LFM is a step up from some of the novels that came before in terms of characterization, and I enjoyed it quite a bit for that and other reasons. However, since the timeline for the story is sandwiched between "The Expanse" and "Anomaly" episodes, the writers (Martin & Mangels who also wrote TGTMD) might've been somewhat limited in how expansive they could be with characters and events.
Still, the main storylines were interesting to me, as were some of the character insights for Reed and Archer. And since one of the storylines focuses on Travis, I think his personality comes out more than in the tv series.
So, I'd say it's worth a read, but after reading TGTMD, you may find LFM a bit more limited in scope.
It probably depends on your definition of "sappy."
I finished it tonight.
Chris, if you check back in time to edit your post-- would you mind enclosing your TGTMD review in spoiler code, for the benefit of those (if there are any left, hee) who haven't read the book yet? Thanks.
I just wanted to say T&T were the reason I watched ENT they made it must watch for me. TATV is still a bitter moment for me and I still get angry about it. I can't wait for when I get money so I can buy the series and interact with you guys some more. I was a casual Trekkie before when I watched wasn't online but I feel better that I was not alone in my anger about TATV.
chris you didnt have to delete it..
for those who dont know hit reply within
a post.
at the bottom of the page is the various
posting code.
click on spoiler.
in the first box that appears type in the subject.
click on ok and then another box appears.
just type what info may be conisidered
spoilerish in there.
about a box per paragraph.
and you dont have to fill out the subject thing.
just click ok for the spoiler box to appear.
go back in the thread and see where all
the spoiler space appears.
and while most of the regulars have read the
book there are some new people who wander in
who havent.
for those who dont know hit reply within
a post.
at the bottom of the page is the various
posting code.
click on spoiler.
in the first box that appears type in the subject.
click on ok and then another box appears.
just type what info may be conisidered
spoilerish in there.
about a box per paragraph.
and you dont have to fill out the subject thing.
just click ok for the spoiler box to appear.
go back in the thread and see where all
the spoiler space appears.
and while most of the regulars have read the
book there are some new people who wander in
who havent.
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