Trip & T'Pol: The Good That They Do

[Reanok]

I find Harbinger a guilty pleasure I enjoyed it. I do wonder about T'Pol's jealousy and posessiveness towards Trip and the way she reacted when she saw Trip & Amanda in the training session and her conversation with Amanda she was hurt that Trip would talk about his sister to Amanda and not with her.After all the weeks they spent in the Expanse I think some part of her felt hurt & Disappointed about him using Np on Amanda.I did like the banter in the scene with Trip & T'Pol it didn't bother when she said to Trip "You're attracted to me." And when she kissed him hiss . Trip was shocked and suprised beyond words.I think the Morning after scene could've been handled differently though when they had that conversation T'Pol was afraid of the strong feelings of attraction she has for Trip.His feelings were hurt by her rebuff but it seems there was going to be more than neroupressure was going on.

 

[Captain X]

Harbinger is a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine too. Sort of like Bound.

Also, in E2, old T’Pol indicated that the reason she pushed Trip away was because of the powerful and frightening emotions he caused her to feel.

I just wished that they'd shown us in the morning after scene and leading up to that talk with her future point instead of having to be told about it. Like, I wish that they'd given us some insight into T'Pol instead of just them avoiding each other, you know?

 

[tennisgirl]

I posted something like this a long while ago somewhere else:

I have mixed feelings about the morning-after scene. Truth is, I do think T'Pol was really scared about what had happened and that's why she backed away, but that still doesn't make me happy. It feels as if the writers wanted to get the issue of "will they/won't they" over already, so they made this entire episode just to get TnT in bed with no consequences afterwards. I don't like that at all. Poor Trip... The guy had every reason to feel used at that moment, even if T'Pol didn't mean it that way. I remember reading someone say that if the roles had been inverted and we had Trip telling T'Pol "Thanks for letting me explore Vulcan sexuality" or whatever, we'd think the guy was a total scumbag. He really did react rather well. Maybe it was because he sensed that T'Pol was scared or confused over what had just happened (I don't think he had a clue about the T-D). The way Trip manages to salvage the situation is awesome, "Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuro-pressure, though". Beautiful! And T'Pol's shifty eyes over the mug--still one of my favorite expressions on JB's face.

If it weren't for the final lines of "Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the NP" and T'Pol's reaction, this scene would have been everything I would not expect from two adults. I still think T'Pol was scared by what happened. But I do believe it wasn't just sex or "a one night stand" for either one of them. T'Pol senses this, she's not ready to deal with it, and backs away (as ttb mentioned, we later hear in "E2" that Trip stirrs strong emotions in her). Trip's hurt at first but somehow, this doesn't really click with what he knows about T'Pol and how she acts. He tests the waters and gets a reaction that lets him know that he's not being dismissed altogether, it was just a bit too much at the moment.

 

[JiNX-01]

Captain X said:
I have to disagree with you there. While some might have liked the banter between them just prior to the kiss and the robe drop, I found it silly.

I liked it. You knew they were going someplace with it and when she kisses him, he *amazingly enough* seemed to be the only one in all creation who was surprised. That never fails to amuse me.

Then the morning after just ruined everything. They were far to casual about it, which is why I call it one-night stand. Between the "exploration" comment from T'Pol and the "let's forget it ever happened" comment from Trip right before he suggested they keep up the VNP, it came off as a one-night stand of casual sex, and as I said, that really doesn't fit either character, but especially not T'Pol, I don't care how Trelled up she was.

Well, I don't think it was casual for either of them.
Trip looked pretty uncomfortable as he approached the table and sat down, looking around to see if anyone was watching them. After all, he knew from Malcolm that the gossip mills had been going full throttle of late.
He seemed to me to be uncertain about their "new" relationship and when she thanks him (CT's "aw, shucks, you don't have to thank me" delivery was pure gold! ) and dismisses it as a sexperiment, it does tick me off. T'Pol comes off as the proverbial "dog in a manger." The coy look after Trip suggests they keep with the VNP suggests they'll be getting together again when she feels the "seven year itch," but meanwhile, it totally demeans the characters and relationship for me (and launches the ridiculous "how old are these two?" angst that will inexcusably go on through most of season 4).

Not only that, but it really doesn't fit in with what happened later. Script note about the possibility of them screwing again or not, they didn't for the rest of that season. They only ever started getting comfortable with each other again in The Forgotten and Countdown. We know they stopped doing the VNP. It was just played completely wrong and it came off as really immature. If T'Pol had seemed bothered rather than coy, and Trip had shown that he was hurt and didn't know what to make of it, that would have fit with what came later better. But, I'd rather have had everything played out more maturely to begin with.

I'd go along with that. (See above)

Fortunately I have Foundations for that.

 

[kitkat]

*waves to the peeps*

Hi everybody! I don't come into this neck of the woods too often anymore but I was reading/lurking a little so I thought I'd say hi.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Nice to see you again, kitkat!

My thoughts on Harbinger are more positive and light-hearted than the rest of y'all, I guess. For me, it isn't a guilty pleasure; it is simply a pleasure. I enjoyed the dialogue and the way it used subtext to reveal far more than was being said, and I thought the performances by Connor and Jolene were charming.

 

[tothebridge]

Hi kitkat. Even if you're lurking, you can always enjoy the pics!

HopefulRomantic said:
My thoughts on Harbinger are more positive and light-hearted than the rest of y'all, I guess. For me, it isn't a guilty pleasure; it is simply a pleasure. I enjoyed the dialogue and the way it used subtext to reveal far more than was being said, and I thought the performances by Connor and Jolene were charming.

That's cool. I think others who have commented (including myself) also like certain things about it, especially the CT/JB interaction. Maybe we (or should I say "I") have just been falling into the tendency to perhaps focus on the stuff that could've been better instead of what worked. As a standalone T/T episode, it can be fun to watch.


From Monday's SciFi block, a few caps....


Hatchery:

A rare one of T/T standing together in the AV suits

Trip's and T'Pol's reaction to one of Archer's questionable comments

Trip uses n-p subterfuge to see T'Pol (who's confined to quarters) and update her on Archer's actions

T'Pol's reaction when Trip indicates they'll be thrown in the brig if Archer finds out what they're planning. (She's seems resolute and willing to take the risk.)

I guess Trip is too.

T'Pol in the uniform means business

From "Azati Prime," an increasingly erratic T'Pol heads for the shuttle bay, and a worried Trip follows....

From "Damage," T'Pol's shower "dream"

And a question for this set....Why did T'Pol have this particular dream (including the "zombie" part), and what did it mean?

 

[Captain X]

You know, that shower dream was really great up until they uglied up T'Pol. I still don't get Hollywood's obsession with doing stuff like that.

 

[JiNX-01]

I think it's curious that she dreams of showering with Trip. I would have preferred the writers had come up with Vulcan eroticism.

 

[Reanok]

About T'Pol's dream in Damage I always wondered if T'Pol feared about losing her emotional control . About giving into her feelings for Trip and how it affected her.Because Phlox comments about Trip make it seem he thinks it was her feelings for him that she was afraid about how he made her feel things a Vulcan wasn't use to feeling.It not something that was easy for her to put into words.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Love the pictures as always, ttb. Several great additions to the Standing Together Collection...

Someone was kind enough to ask for the full size version of the avatar I entered in the episode contest this week. Here is a link.

I also made a version from the full screencap...

813 x 480 version

 

[Captain X]

Thanks HR

 

[Trippy]

Oooohh...that's purdy! :thumbsup:

 

[Reanok]

Thanks Hopeful Romantic for that Picture of T'pol it is gorgeous and it conveys all the emotions she was feeling . :thumbsup:

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Glad you like the T'Pol picture. I'm no boushh or Hoshi's sis, but I'm learning.

JiNX-01 said:
I think it's curious that she dreams of showering with Trip. I would have preferred the writers had come up with Vulcan eroticism.

"Vulcan eroticism"... oxymoron? Or maybe you're talking about a scene like the one from STIII when Saavik was doing that finger-touch thing with newly-reconstituted young Spock? They did a really good job with that, but ummmm...

tothebridge said:
And a question for this set....Why did T'Pol have this particular dream (including the "zombie" part), and what did it mean?

It seems that her subconscious self was fearing the worst regarding her use of trellium to access her emotions. Her fear appeared to be that too much emotion (symbolized by Trip), brought on by the trellium, might turn her into a madwoman who kills those closest to her-- like the zombie-Vulcans she found on the Seleya, who had been exposed to huge amounts of trellium and had gone mad and killed each other, killed their friends and colleagues.

My inference from this is that T'Pol has strong feelings for Trip, and those feelings frighten her, and that's why she may be subconsciously fearing that her emotions are becoming too strong.

Just for fun, I went to a dream analysis site and looked at the imagery used in T'Pol's nightmare. Disclaimer: The following is not the only interpretation of the imagery; I only went to one site. And I'm well aware that the analysis deals with human dreams and human-based imagery. But humans wrote the script, for viewing by humans. And when we do learn a bit about Vulcan emotions in the different Trek shows, they seem to line up with what humans are wrestling with. Hey, my pets clearly feel joy, grief, loneliness, embarrassment... they're not human, but I understand them.

So! On we go with the incredibly unscientific analysis!

Water symbolizes the unconscious, and the emotional state of mind. Running water denotes meditation on one's thoughts and emotions. Taking a shower can refer to spiritual renewal.

Nudity denotes the fear of being found out and exposed about one's activities. Metaphorically, clothes are a means of concealment, a way to hide one's identity or be someone else. But without them, one is left without any defenses.

Kissing denotes love, affection, tranquility, harmony, and contentment. [Awww.

]

To dream that you are amorous denotes that personal desires and illicit pleasures may land you into trouble. You will find yourself engulfed in scandal.

Dreaming about sex may be your libido's way of telling you that it's been too long since you have had sex. It may indicate repressed sexual desires and your needs for physical and emotional love. [Pretty straighforward, eh? ]


[Remember the specific shots of Trip rubbing T'Pol's neck, and T'Pol and Trip's feet?]

Your dream body represents your dream ego and your conscious identity. Specific body parts are only significant if they are different than usual.

Seeing the neck in a dream signifies the relationship between the mind/mental and the body/physical. It represents willpower, self-restriction and the need to control your feelings and keep them in check. The feet symbolize one's foundation, stability and sense of understanding. It signifies the need to be more practical and sensible.


A metamorphosis taking place in a dream denotes sudden and rapid changes in one's personal life. If the metamorphosis is a complicated and unpleasant one, then it suggests that the dreamer is ill prepared for the changes.

Exhibiting aggression in a dream may be a reflection of conflict in one's waking life. Killing someone forewarns that heavy stress may cause you to lose your temper and self-control. It can also indicate that you are putting an end to an old habit and your former ways of thinking; it can denote an end to an addiction; or it can represent some repressed aggression or rage at yourself or others.

Whew! Okay, school's out.

 

[dmleo]

Hello everyone, it's so nice to see old friends still professing their love for the best couple in Trek history. :thumbsup:

 

[JiNX-01]

HopefulRomantic said:
Glad you like the T'Pol picture. I'm no boushh or Hoshi's sis, but I'm learning.

"Vulcan eroticism"... oxymoron? Or maybe you're talking about a scene like the one from STIII when Saavik was doing that finger-touch thing with newly-reconstituted young Spock? They did a really good job with that, but ummmm...

I just want aliens to stick to their own concepts.

T'Pol was born on a pretty dry planet. I doubt Vulcans squander large amounts of water on showers that were initiated largely -- if not solely -- for the purpose of seducing each other.

So when she dreams about showering with Trip? For me that's the major .

Trip always comes to her quarters for VNP. In her dream, she goes to him and enters his quarters "without knocking" so to speak. He's just gone to bed. He looks at her curiously. She has an expression Trip has never seen before because she's experiencing pon farr (what the hell, as long as they've already introduced it . But it's not the "Bounty" version idiotically caused by a virus; it's natural pon farr, driving true passion as opposed to mere horniness).

We don't hear them speak (just like in the original dream) but we can see them talking. He's still in bed and asks why she's there. She approaches without responding. She sits on the bed, reaches down and grasps his wrist, just as Spock did with Saavik. Trip tries to pull away because she's hurting him, but she doesn't let go. She pries open his hand so she can stroke the palm and fingers. Trip's trust and curiosity take over and he stops resisting. She continues to stroke his hand, his fingers, and then his face. He starts to "get it" and uses his free hand to stroke the fingers clutching his wrist. She releases him, stands up and drops her robe. She's wearing a diaphanous gown similar to those we saw on the priestesses(?) on Selaya in Search for Spock. She reaches up and touches Trip's face to meld with him -- to "feel his thoughts" (might as well get something useful out of "Fusion." )). We can see Trip gasp with the intensity of the mental contact and his face reflects fascination. He leans in to brush against her. (Finger stroking only goes so far with humans. ) They continue to touch and stroke, he kisses her. She kisses him back with such intensity that she hurts him and he pushes her away. She appears briefly confused and alarmed by the power of her own passion. She turns away for a moment and shudders. When she turns back to face him, her face is showing the early signs of deformation due to the effects of the trellium. Trip recoils from her and she attacks him...

T'Pol awakens and bolts up in bed.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

JiNX-01 said:
I just want aliens to stick to their own concepts.

T'Pol was born on a pretty dry planet. I doubt Vulcans squander large amounts of water on showers that were initiated largely -- if not solely -- for the purpose of seducing each other.

So when she dreams about showering with Trip? For me that's the major .

I see your point. I guess it didn't bother me because 1) it's a dream, and I figured it was symbolism; 2) T'Pol has been on Enterprise for almost three years, with that shower in the bathroom of her quarters, and I assumed that she had become accustomed to using that human contraption; and 3) T'Pol prefers chamomile tea to theris-masu, so maybe she likes water showers too.

Also, someone suggested to me once that T'Pol might have dreamed of showering with Trip because that's what they did after their get-together in Harbinger. Interesting theory.

Trip always comes to her quarters for VNP. In her dream, she goes to him and enters his quarters "without knocking" so to speak. He's just gone to bed. He looks at her curiously. She has an expression Trip has never seen before because she's experiencing pon farr (what the hell, as long as they've already introduced it . But it's not the "Bounty" version idiotically caused by a virus; it's natural pon farr, driving true passion as opposed to mere horniness).

We don't hear them speak (just like in the original dream) but we can see them talking. He's still in bed and asks why she's there. She approaches without responding. She sits on the bed, reaches down and grasps his wrist, just as Spock did with Saavik. Trip tries to pull away because she's hurting him, but she doesn't let go. She pries open his hand so she can stroke the palm and fingers. Trip's trust and curiosity take over and he stops resisting. She continues to stroke his hand, his fingers, and then his face. He starts to "get it" and uses his free hand to stroke the fingers clutching his wrist. She releases him, stands up and drops her robe. She's wearing a diaphanous gown similar to those we saw on the priestesses(?) on Selaya in Search for Spock. She reaches up and touches Trip's face to meld with him -- to "feel his thoughts" (might as well get something useful out of "Fusion." )). We can see Trip gasp with the intensity of the mental contact and his face reflects fascination. He leans in to brush against her. (Finger stroking only goes so far with humans. ) They continue to touch and stroke, he kisses her. She kisses him back with such intensity that she hurts him and he pushes her away. She appears briefly confused and alarmed by the power of her own passion. She turns away for a moment and shudders. When she turns back to face him, her face is showing the early signs of deformation due to the effects of the trellium. Trip recoils from her and she attacks him...

T'Pol awakens and bolts up in bed.

Sexy intro to your version. I'm not sure about the mind-meld part... At this point, does T'Pol know any more about melds other than what Tolaris showed her, which is that melds are used to attack and violate the minds of others? I haven't seen Stigma for a while, so I don't recall whether she still believes melding is a "deviant" practice, or whether she's been enlightened.

And since dreams are a means by which the subconscious mind communicates what the waking mind has suppressed... what do you think the new dream is saying? If T'Pol is going to Trip's quarters, compelled by pon farr to have sex with him (not choosing him as her lover because she is in love with him), does it mean T'Pol is choosing the human world over her Vulcan world... but that her Vulcanness (powerful pon farr sex) might hurt Trip?

Naw, I know that's not what you meant.

 

[JiNX-01]

HopefulRomantic said:

JiNX-01 said:
I just want aliens to stick to their own concepts.

T'Pol was born on a pretty dry planet. I doubt Vulcans squander large amounts of water on showers that were initiated largely -- if not solely -- for the purpose of seducing each other.

So when she dreams about showering with Trip? For me that's the major .

I see your point. I guess it didn't bother me because 1) it's a dream, and I figured it was symbolism; 2) T'Pol has been on Enterprise for almost three years, with that shower in the bathroom of her quarters, and I assumed that she had become accustomed to using that human contraption; and 3) T'Pol prefers chamomile tea to theris-masu, so maybe she likes water showers too.

I liked the dream analysis you found, but the trouble here is that T'Pol is not human. What works as symbolism for us isn't going to work on an alien mind. Three years of exposure to humans isn't going to turn her into a human, either. She might very well enjoy the shower but that doesn't mean she's going to associate it with Vulcan sexual behavior.

Also, someone suggested to me once that T'Pol might have dreamed of showering with Trip because that's what they did after their get-together in Harbinger. Interesting theory.

Did they? I don't recall that.

Trip always comes to her quarters for VNP. In her dream, she goes to him and enters his quarters "without knocking" so to speak. He's just gone to bed. He looks at her curiously. She has an expression Trip has never seen before because she's experiencing pon farr (what the hell, as long as they've already introduced it . But it's not the "Bounty" version idiotically caused by a virus; it's natural pon farr, driving true passion as opposed to mere horniness).

We don't hear them speak (just like in the original dream) but we can see them talking. He's still in bed and asks why she's there. She approaches without responding. She sits on the bed, reaches down and grasps his wrist, just as Spock did with Saavik. Trip tries to pull away because she's hurting him, but she doesn't let go. She pries open his hand so she can stroke the palm and fingers. Trip's trust and curiosity take over and he stops resisting. She continues to stroke his hand, his fingers, and then his face. He starts to "get it" and uses his free hand to stroke the fingers clutching his wrist. She releases him, stands up and drops her robe. She's wearing a diaphanous gown similar to those we saw on the priestesses(?) on Selaya in Search for Spock. She reaches up and touches Trip's face to meld with him -- to "feel his thoughts" (might as well get something useful out of "Fusion." )). We can see Trip gasp with the intensity of the mental contact and his face reflects fascination. He leans in to brush against her. (Finger stroking only goes so far with humans. ) They continue to touch and stroke, he kisses her. She kisses him back with such intensity that she hurts him and he pushes her away. She appears briefly confused and alarmed by the power of her own passion. She turns away for a moment and shudders. When she turns back to face him, her face is showing the early signs of deformation due to the effects of the trellium. Trip recoils from her and she attacks him...

T'Pol awakens and bolts up in bed.

Sexy intro to your version. I'm not sure about the mind-meld part... At this point, does T'Pol know any more about melds other than what Tolaris showed her, which is that melds are used to attack and violate the minds of others? I haven't seen Stigma for a while, so I don't recall whether she still believes melding is a "deviant" practice, or whether she's been enlightened.

Well, I used it because she did exhibit curiosity about melds and might have picked up a rudimentary understanding of how to make a basic (primitive?) emotional connection. I don't know that she considers the act of melding itself perverse anymore.

And since dreams are a means by which the subconscious mind communicates what the waking mind has suppressed... what do you think the new dream is saying? If T'Pol is going to Trip's quarters, compelled by pon farr to have sex with him (not choosing him as her lover because she is in love with him), does it mean T'Pol is choosing the human world over her Vulcan world... but that her Vulcanness (powerful pon farr sex) might hurt Trip?

Naw, I know that's not what you meant.

Again, you're putting a human interpretation of dream analysis into a Vulcan head. I was actually looking at what she experienced on the ship in Impulse. Vulcans who had not only lost their emotional controls, but also their sanity. The mixture of the trellium use, her knowledge that she is playing with fire and the realization of the true consequences if she doesn't stop all add up to the real possibility that she could harm Trip, even kill him.

This is the stuff of nightmares: That we could harm the people we do care most about.

 

[pookha]

i think from the first time i saw the dream it might be connected back to this is what they were doing right after the encounter in harninger.
that tpol was spending a vast amount of time recreating the data base that had been destroyed in chosen realm may had planned after a certain amount of time to go back on duty.
and trip showed her the fun way to clean up.
they both were dressed and at their posts when all heyal breaks lose.
it may be that trip couldnt sleep goes back to his cabin and gets dressed to check out engineering.

but, after three years i could see how tpol would experience a shower as a sensual treat.

but i could see how she is fearful of what the withdrwal from the trellum is doing to her.
she almost attacks trip in azati prime to keep him from following her (which can be seen as she was trying to protect him.. heck she didnt come up with that crazed scheme until trip and malcolm wanted to take enterprise in)

and it is possible on some level she is concerned if trip could survive an encounter with her true uncontrolled nature.