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Trill a Federation Member?

Curzon was a Federation ambassador, so I'd say yes they are.

How could he have represented the Federation without being 'from' it?

I mean, it's not like Starfleet, which allows personnel from non-Federation worlds (Klingons, Ferengi). It seems fairly obvious that to represent a government, on the highest levels of policy and diplomacy, one must logically be a citizen - how could Curzon have had the Federation's best interests at heart if he wasn't from the same Federation?
 
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It's possible it was an Associate Member rather than a full member, but I tend to go with the later.
 
I admit there's no flat-out proof, onscreen, that Trill is a member (in the novels, it is). But I can't imagine that it wouldn't be. Curzon is the most blatant example I can think of.

I suppose it is theoretically possible that Curzon, like Worf, was a *citizen* of the Federation but not from one of its member worlds. But there is absolutely no indication of this. As far as we know, Curzon was a native of the planet Trill and was born and raised there (unlike Worf, who was raised by humans). And just like one must be a native born American, for example, to be President of the United States, I can only assume the same principle applies here.

It seems clear that, "The Host" notwithstanding, the Trill in general must have been a known species for some time. Multiple Dax hosts have been in Starfleet, for example. And Emony Dax was on Earth pre-TOS, judging a gymnastics event, and she knew Leonard McCoy.
 
I looked at several site including startrek.com, Ex Astris Scientia, and Memory Alpha and neither site mentioned them offically as a Federation Member.
 
The Star Trek Star Charts by Geoff Mandel says that Trill was admitted to the UFP in 2285, FWIW.
 
Honestly, I've always assumed the Trill are a Federation member. After all, there are plenty of them serving in Starfleet, Jadzia, Ezri, the conn officer in Insurrection, and if deleted scenes count there was also a male Trill serving on the Enterprise in Insurrection. Add to that Curzon being a Federation ambassador and that the Defiant had no problem visiting the Trill homeworld I'd say it's safe to assume they're members even if it's not specifically stated on screen.

The one nagging fact is that in TNG the symbionts were secret despite being so well known in DS9 that human Starfleet officers could remove and implant them. But considering the nature of the symbiont/host relationship had changed in DS9 from TNG, not to mention the physical appearance of the Trill themselves, I assume this is meant to be ignored.

Or maybe Trill and Bolians a part of a coalition of non-Federation members who allied to the Federation so well that Starfleet accepts citizens from these worlds? ;)
 
The one nagging fact is that in TNG the symbionts were secret

The symbionts, yes. Not the entire species of Trill as a whole. It is perfectly understandable if the Trill, as such, had been known for decades but nobody found out until "The Host" that they were a joined species.
 
There is, of course, no explicit on-screen evidence that the Trill are Federation members. However, I lend toward them actually being so. After all, as has been stated, how could Curzon be a high ranking Federation diplomat without Trill being a member.

And after all, there's also no direct on-screen evidence that Betazed is a Federation Member World either.
 
In practice, if species X is significantly represented in the diplomatic corps and Starfleet, this is a counterindication for the species being a UFP member. :devil:

Once we ignore humans, we find that major, speaking-role Starfleet contributions include Bajorans (a definite non-member and at times a possible enemy), Klingons (ditto), Ferengi (ditto), Trill (neutral), Bolians (neutral) and Vulcans (pro-UFP, and very probably UFP members in all their appearances, unless they are in a habit of leaving and returning).

In the diplomatic role, major personalities include a half-Klingon and later on possibly a full Klingon, a deaf-mute individual from a nondescript humanlike species who/that is ill known to our UFP heroes, a Vulcan or two, a highly secretive Trill or two, and a Bolian. We know for a fact that at least those with Klingon blood do not hail from a UFP species, while the Vulcans do. Bolian and Trill membership is completely unknown in this respect: it simply isn't required that your biological makeup be "compatible" with the party you represent.

how could Curzon be a high ranking Federation diplomat without Trill being a member.
Conversely, how could Curzon be a Trill with the infamous Trill secrets if Trill is a longtime member?

The mystery species here are otherwise neutral, but they tend to have one or two oddities that would be better explained if they weren't UFP members. Bolarus is the only "possibly UFP" world known to have a bank... Also possibly tilting the scales is the frequency at which the UFP employs known outsiders in those very roles through which Trill and Bolarus supposedly "establish" their membership.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The one nagging fact is that in TNG the symbionts were secret

The symbionts, yes. Not the entire species of Trill as a whole. It is perfectly understandable if the Trill, as such, had been known for decades but nobody found out until "The Host" that they were a joined species.

And given that only the tiniest minority of them are joined, it would seem to be a fairly easy secret to keep.
 
Once we ignore humans, we find that major, speaking-role Starfleet contributions include Bajorans (a definite non-member and at times a possible enemy), Klingons (ditto), Ferengi (ditto), Trill (neutral), Bolians (neutral) and Vulcans (pro-UFP, and very probably UFP members in all their appearances, unless they are in a habit of leaving and returning).

Given that both TNG (Gambit, Part II) and several episodes of ENT explicitly state that Vulcan is a founding member of the Federation, I'd say it's safe to assume that Vulcan is a Federation Member World. ;)
 
For the record, Trill is explicitly stated to be a Federation Member in the novels. In fact, a Trill female named Madza Bral is established to be the first Federation President to hail from a world other than the five founding worlds of the Federation (Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, and Alpha Centauri) circa 2230.
 
And yet, novels aren't canon.

For that matter, the Federation can have ambassadors from non-member worlds.
Think of it as being akin to ties between the Federation and non-member worlds being strong... they have a number of agreements, excellent relations, except, they aren't a member.

I see no reason why Bolians or Trills would be UFP members.
It's possible they are non-members and yet have numerous people working in SF of their own choosing.

As if people today from other countries aren't living in other countries (which are not of their origins) and are in high-ranking positions.
Of course, the Federation would likely allow people to come in, live, work , contribute/whatever without the hassles of visas we have today.
 
The next Star Trek series should really just list all the Federation members so that we can finally have defintive word on who is or isn't a member.
 
just list all the Federation members
Oh no, where would be the fun in that?

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Employing a non-Federation being in the role of ambassador, to represent the Federation in certain matters with hostile powers, occasional might be to the Federation advantage. Wasn't Curzon an ambassador during the time period that the Klingons and Federation were openly hostile towards each other?

The Klingons might not have even let a ambassador whose species was a Federation member in the front door. But a outside species, acting in the Federation behalf as their ambassador, could have been acceptable enough to get talks started.

The Federation could have turned to their many external allies for such a person, and found in Curzon someone to be their official ambassador to the Klingons.

Maybe not the way Humans would have done it, but to the majority of the Federation's many races, this could have been standard practice for thousands of years.

:)
 
And yet, novels aren't canon.
No, but when a novel states something (in this case, "Trill is a member"), and there is nothing in canon that explicitly contradicts it, then it still counts in favor of the premise being discussed.
For that matter, the Federation can have ambassadors from non-member worlds.
Think of it as being akin to ties between the Federation and non-member worlds being strong... they have a number of agreements, excellent relations, except, they aren't a member.
Not really, no.

We're talking about a Federation Ambassador, meaning, one who would engage in negotiations on behalf of the Federation. Expecting non-members to conduct these kinds of negotiations properly is ludicrous. "Excellent relations" is still not at all the same as "you are part of our society".

For an individual to attain such a position, despite their species not being members, would mean that the individual had become a UFP citizen for some reason, early in life, and had worked within Federation diplomatic circles for quite some time. Their ties to their original homeworld would be comparatively minimal; they would have had to truly throw themselves in to their life as a UFP citizen and public servant, and they certainly wouldn't be able to maintain a highly visible profile as a representative of their original, non-member, species.

This does not describe Curzon. He was an extremely skilled Federation ambassador, AND a well-known (nigh unto legendary) figure as a Trill and host of the Dax symbiont. These various aspects of his life are all core to his character.

Trill is a member.
I see no reason why Bolians or Trills would be UFP members.
Strange sort of "in favor of the negative" wording you are using here.

What, exactly, is the reason why they SHOULDN'T be members?
It's possible they are non-members and yet have numerous people working in SF of their own choosing.
Absolutely. The Bolians and Trill needn't even be brought up when addressing this specific point: Klingons, Ferengi, and Bajorans are sufficient to demonstrate that individuals from non-member species can join Starfleet, as there is NO room for debate that those three species are not members during the shows. But being an ambassador is a whole different matter.
As if people today from other countries aren't living in other countries (which are not of their origins) and are in high-ranking positions.
Wait... what? Who is living where and is from where (or isn't)? This sentence is all over the map (no pun intended).

And, "high ranking positions" doing what, exactly? Obviously a country's government works with a variety of individuals, both from the country in question and from others, during day-to-day foreign affairs operations. But to be an ambassador representing the interests of a nation, you have to be from that nation. For Curzon be a Federation ambassador if Trill is not a member, representing the UFP in key early negotiations with the Klingons, would be like a man living in France, who has visited the US many times but was born and raised in France, becoming the US ambassador to China.

Excepting, as I outlined above, an instance where someone who is biologically not from a member world, but gained individual UFP citizenship and worked their way up to such an important position. But again, that's clearly not the case with Curzon.
The next Star Trek series should really just list all the Federation members so that we can finally have defintive word on who is or isn't a member.
Well, the reason they don't do that is to leave the door open for future writers who want to create another Federation race - one that is new to the audience, but has "been there all along" in-universe.
 
Like I just said: how could Curzon have had the Federation's interests in mind if he's not a citizen OF the Federation? I hate to be blunt, but how could he - or anyone, for that matter - be trusted to represent a government to which they owe no allegiance?

It is exactly the same reasoning that, IRL, demands that a President of the United States be a natural-born US citizen, and (AFAIK) a US Senator be a resident of the state they have been elected to represent. They must have a stake in things, so to speak. They can be trusted to be the best at their jobs - theoretically, anyway :p - because they personally will be affected by how they conduct their business on behalf of their government.

As for the Klingons: Meh. They respected Curzon because he was GOOD. He *knew* the Klingon mindset. The Klingons did not care where Curzon was from, they liked him because he understood them. That's the end of that, really.
 
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