Trek's View of Religion

[iguana_tonante]

And I was explaining why it made no sense. That a life without any supernatural belief is void of love, hope and wonder is utter nonsense, and it shows he doesn't have any familiarity with people actually adhering to that world view. He's taking what he likes about his life, and projecting it to other people: if you don't enjoy the same things I do, your live must be dreary and hopeless.

Tell me how it's not barging in someone else's business.

How is his view affecting your life?

Well, then I guess it's ok for me so say that living without any ability to discriminate between fact and fiction, and without the curiosity to unveil the mysteries of the universe because "a wizard did it" is a shame and a pity, and an insult to human intelligence, drive and craft. Since it doesn't affect Penta's life, you should find nothing wrong with this.

Iguana: So....I actually wasn't saying that at all.

I said what I said for me.

For me, drilling everything down into a chemical reaction makes life dreary.

For me, the prospect of this being the only world we've got frankly makes me want to hang myself. Or at least I would, if I had the motor skills to tie a knot. Because if there's nothing past this, then I have zero reason not to want to die.

I wasn't saying a damn thing about you. Quit being so vain.

You used the words "I", "me" or "myself" 12 times just in this last post. Tell me who's being vain.

 

[stonester1]

And I was explaining why it made no sense. That a life without any supernatural belief is void of love, hope and wonder is utter nonsense, and it shows he doesn't have any familiarity with people actually adhering to that world view. He's taking what he likes about his life, and projecting it to other people: if you don't enjoy the same things I do, your live must be dreary and hopeless.

Tell me how it's not barging in someone else's business.

How is his view affecting your life?

Well, then I guess it's ok for me so say that living without any ability to discriminate between fact and fiction, and without the curiosity to unveil the mysteries of the universe because "a wizard did it" is a shame and a pity, and an insult to human intelligence, drive and craft. Since it doesn't affect Penta's life, you should find nothing wrong with this.

So as long as we are clear that he's not, nor is there any way he could in this manner "barge into your business"...

...and for the record, not being enchanted by the latest "explanation du jour" from the "commitee against human abstraction" doesn't qualify as an "inability to discriminate against fact and fiction", nor does it qualify as a "lack of curiousity".

He said that he doesn't find the idea that we are mounds of chemicals with the illusion of "self" enchanting.

You added in all that other shiite.

 

[iguana_tonante]

So as long as we are clear that he's not, nor is there any way he could in this manner "barge into your business"...

"as long as we are clear he's not"... what?

...and for the record, not being enchanted by the latest "explanation du jour" from the "commitee against human abstraction" doesn't qualify as an "inability to discriminate against fact and fiction", nor does it qualify as a "lack of curiousity".

I don't know if those things are true about Penta, or anybody else here (well, maybe a couple...). Just like what Penta said about people rejecting the supernatural is definitively not true. But since he felt he needed to tell us that, I guessed I could have my share of fun.

He said that he doesn't find the idea that we are mounds of chemicals with the illusion of "self" enchanting.

You added in all that other shiite.

He plainly said that if my world view was right then he would kill himself because, apparently, my way of thinking is dreary and hopeless. I know you cannot multiquote, but I hope you can at least read upthread.

 

[stonester1]

"as long as we are clear he's not"... what?

You tell me...this was your phrase referencing him from post 3:14 AM

Tell me how it's not barging in someone else's business.

But since he felt he needed to tell us that, I guessed I could have my share of fun.

Probably should see someone about that. Maybe something wrong with your chemicals. Too high dosage of that "asshole" cocktail.

He plainly said that if my world view was right then he would kill himself because, apparently, my way of thinking is dreary and hopeless. I know you cannot multiquote, but I hope you can at least read upthread.

Yes, he said that.

So?

Still not seeing how that affects you.

I just see you once again deciding to be an arrogant schmuck for no really good reason.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

For me, drilling everything down into a chemical reaction makes life dreary.

For me, the prospect of this being the only world we've got frankly makes me want to hang myself. Or at least I would, if I had the motor skills to tie a knot. Because if there's nothing past this, then I have zero reason not to want to die.

That may be so, but it may just very well be the case that this is true, despite the fact that you may want more. What you want is irrelevant to reality.

If you believe something (such as another world after this one, or the idea that we are in fact comprised of more than just chemicles) becuase it is comforting to believe it, that doesn't make the belief true, and in my opinion, it's not enough to substantiate beleif. I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible, regardless of whether these true things are pleasant or not. I don't want any beleif system blowing sunshine up my ass.

 

[stonester1]

For me, drilling everything down into a chemical reaction makes life dreary.

For me, the prospect of this being the only world we've got frankly makes me want to hang myself. Or at least I would, if I had the motor skills to tie a knot. Because if there's nothing past this, then I have zero reason not to want to die.

That may be so, but it may just very well be the case that this is true, despite the fact that you may want more. What you want is irrelevant to reality.

If you believe something (such as another world after this one, or the idea that we are in fact comprised of more than just chemicles) becuase it is comforting to believe it, that doesn't make the belief true, and in my opinion, it's not enough to substantiate beleif. I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible, regardless of whether these true things are pleasant or not. I don't want any beleif system blowing sunshine up my ass.

Also consider that just because one desperately wants reality and all aspects of it to easily boil down to easily spotted, organized and layed out mechanics...doesn't mean that is the case.

Or just because you want to eliminate the uncertainty of the question of what happens to us after we die, doesn't mean you'll get it...from science anyway.

If one must be considered, so must the other.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Yeah sure, but it's different when you are claiming something is the case without baking it up. It's worse what Penta is saying, which seems to be that something is the case because he wants it to be.

And don't misunderstand me. I'd like for there to be ore to this existance than what can be dilineated in a material wya, and I would even go so far as to say (to myself) there is more. However, I cannot yet demonstrate this claim and can't expect others to feel this way about such an idea as I feel.

 

[stonester1]

Yeah sure, but it's different when you are claiming something is the case without baking it up. It's worse what Penta is saying, which seems to be that something is the case because he wants it to be.

And don't misunderstand me. I'd like for there to be ore to this existance than what can be dilineated in a material wya, and I would even go so far as to say (to myself) there is more. However, I cannot yet demonstrate this claim and can't expect others to feel this way about such an idea as I feel.

Yes, Penta does want something to be that. And there's is no reason NOT to want it, and there is no harm in wanting it.

Repeat, there IS NO HARM, not to himself, nor to anyone else.

I'd not just say to myself my view, I've no problem saying it to others. I can't "prove" it in the scientific sense, but I don't feel there is any need to. There is plenty "proof", if one is open to other points of view other than that one.

And like I've said, after my years long bout with agnosticism/atheism, it was partially science that brought me back. Again, not that it itself "proved" anything. Just things that I saw...cold equations alone weren't enough of an explanation for me.

And ultimately, that's what the spiritual journey is all about, it's something you must go on yourself. No text book, no ism, will take you on that journey alone.

It's not meant to be that way.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I haven't really seen a Star Trek related discussion in a long time. Go to TNZ if you want to discuss the topic of religion properly.

Now to deal with Adam Smith vs. Karl Marx in that other thread.

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