Trek's lowest moment

[Jonas Grumby]

So folks can't take criticism anymore and have to be reassured that they are the utter apex of human social development because it's insulting to not be considered such at all times?

A more overblown interpretation of what I and others have posted here I could not imagine.

Why is it so important to you to heap scorn upon modern humanity anyway? Do you consider yourself the vanguard of Roddenberry's "evolved humans," entitled to look down your nose at all the unenlightened, unwashed masses around you?

I'm sure that most people today probably DO think that their ancestors were "disgusting, amoral prejudiced pieces of shit" so it's in line with humans that people from the future will think the same of us.

Can't handle that? Well you probably didn't take into consideration when you thought the same of your own ancestors.

I believe past generations were just people, same as us. Some good, some bad, most just trying to do the best they could in the time in which they lived. Everything we are and have is built upon their backs. We have come to consider some of their beliefs invalid and outdated - just as future generations will certainly consider many of ours. So I certainly do not think of my ancestors as "disgusting, amoral prejudiced pieces of shit."

But I'm sure there are those who do - and not just their ancestors but their contemporaries today as well. IMO, there are several episodes of Trek that could only have been written the way they were with a mind toward appealing to that kind of mindset.

Personally, I'm just not that alienated.

 

[Anwar]

I'm just pointing out that folks are so PO'ed at the attitude the TNG crew sometimes showed towards the 20th Century, when the truth is that plenty of folks today demonstrated that same attitude towards their own past so they shouldn't get so upset over someone else doing the same thing to them.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It does make a mockery of Picard's claim to be a higher standard of human, though, doesn't it?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It does make a mockery of Picard's claim to be a higher standard of human, though, doesn't it?

Uh, yeah. That is precisely the point.

 

[Vandervecken]

Although--all of NuTrek is close up for a tie. Just two hideous, predictable, clunky, unthinking non-Trek-spirit actioners from start to finish. Blech. For the worst moments, either the stupid, absolutely NOT exciting, boringly overlong, Matrix-like space dive to the Vengeance, or Carol Marcus stripping for blatant fanservice.

All right, genius, who could do a better set of movies? I want a ton of names, and you better hope that they can stand my scrutiny test.

Hey, I didn't say I could do better. I said I know what completely sucks and why, and nuTrek is that. Pee-yu. Predictable clunkers, just taken as movies in a vacuum, without consideration of their zero-respect policy toward Star Trek's heart. But anyway, here are some ideas:



Ronald B. Moore
J. Michael Straczynski
Sam Raimi

 

[BigJake]

All right, genius, who could do a better set of movies?

You're doing it again. (And I see you had an "episode" on the Saturn Awards thread, too.)

I want a ton of names, and you better hope that they can stand my scrutiny test.

Why had he "better hope" that? What happens if they don't? Are you the keeper of the keys or something?

Pare off the gratuitous aggression and it would be an interesting question though: who would you like to see do the next movies (if there are any)? That would be an interesting topic.

 

[Forbin]

Although--all of NuTrek is close up for a tie. Just two hideous, predictable, clunky, unthinking non-Trek-spirit actioners from start to finish. Blech. For the worst moments, either the stupid, absolutely NOT exciting, boringly overlong, Matrix-like space dive to the Vengeance, or Carol Marcus stripping for blatant fanservice.

All right, genius, who could do a better set of movies? I want a ton of names, and you better hope that they can stand my scrutiny test.

Hey, I didn't say I could do better. I said I know what completely sucks and why, and nuTrek is that.

Or as I like to say - I don't need to know how to cook to know I don't like what I'm eating.

 

[Delta Vega]

These are the Voyages. After three seasons of showing us how bad they are as writers, B&B finally let someone else spend a whole season bringing Trek up out of the muck and actually making it worth watching again... and then yoinked the rug right out from under us with arguably the, poorly written, poorly conceived and most generally insulting Trek episode in Trek history.

I feel your pain, but really ?

Is TATV worse than say "A Piece of the Action" ?

I`m not sure it is.

I'm sure! PotA may have been a bad ep, but it was clearly written tongue-in-cheek, as a comedic episode that didn't really work. But at the root it still had the "heart" that the Big Three brought to every episode.

TatV was poorly written by bad writers with bad ideas.
The plot wasn't even about the show it was an episode of - it was essentially a "deleted scene" from a TNG episode. It in fact lessened that decent TNG episode and insulted the character of Will Riker by suggesting that he would be stupid enough to leave a critical situation for 40 minutes to playact in a holo story, and that he was so emotionally weak that he'd need such a vehicle to make a crucial decision.

TatV also insulted Enterprise fans by making the "big finale" about a different show; it insulted TNG fans by suggesting this crap happened during the very good "Pegasus". It insulted Riker fans by making him look like a wuss and an idiot; it insulted Trip Tucker fans by wasting his life. It insulted people with brains by suggesting the entire crew of the NX-01 was in exactly the same rank and position for 10 years. It made Frakes and Sirtis look bad, pretending they were their younger selves when they could barely squeeze into the uniforms.

Heck, Piece of the Action may have been dumb but it wasn't insulting. TatV seems to be saying "Fuck you, Enterprise fans, we the writers liked TNG better. And we still can't write for shit, but here's a farewell buttfuck for ya!"

Jolene got it right in her farewell statement.

TATV did say to me, a big Enterprise fan, "Fuck You, your favourite show and characters have been considered surplus to requirements"
I was insulted, sure I was, and I was pissed off they killed off Trip, and I was pissed off that they enhanced a nothing character (chef) and made him pivotal through Riker, to the whole end of Enterprise, and I was pissed off that they let TNG fandancers like Riker and Troi have carte blanche over Archers crews swansong, but episodes like A Piece of the Action among other derisory offerings from various Trek shows are just too insulting to be considered comedic.
For me APotA is the worst of the worst and even the gratuitous "fuck you" that TATV is, cannot insult me as much as gangsters in space did.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Ronald B. Moore
J. Michael Straczynski
Sam Raimi

I could see Moore as a franchise runner, but his script can't be a episode blown up to a movie length. None of these movies from these guys can. And that's why I suspect that it'll be guys like Abrams making the movies, as distasteful to you (and others) as it may be.

Or as I like to say - I don't need to know how to cook to know I don't like what I'm eating.

You don't like what you're eating, but others do. And you're outnumbered by everybody else on the planet that's seen the movies (or at least those like you who hate the movies are in the minority.)

 

[BigJake]

You don't like what you're eating, but others do.

In other news, since "Blurred Lines" is this year's best-selling single, Forbin is obligated to be a Robin Thicke fan.

No, wait... that would be sort of a silly thing to say, wouldn't it?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Section 31, that's 21st century realpolitik. We've got a real life section 31 in the NSA right now.

No, you don't (and I say this as a Canadian.) Snowden was and is full of shit, and was just a whiny emo boy who only did this because Obama was in office (why didn't he do this under Bush?)

Here's the real truth about this clown: In 2009, Ed Snowden said leakers “should be shot.” Then he became one

Here's some more: 3 QUESTIONS THE ACLU WON'T ASK EDWARD SNOWDEN

Other article about Snowden that expose him as being full of it

Please don't fall for this fool anymore.

 

[Cyke101]

You don't like what you're eating, but others do. And you're outnumbered by everybody else on the planet that's seen the movies (or at least those like you who hate the movies are in the minority.)

I don't like milk, but the vast majority of people around me do. I'm surrounded by them constantly, too. But that doesn't mean that anyone's pressuring me to like it, nor do I feel like picking a fight with the majority just because the majority likes something that I don't (and milk has been around far longer and has greater influence than Trek, I might add).

 

[BigJake]

I don't like milk, but the vast majority of people around me do.

Here at the Trek Bistro, it's more comparable to questions of taste between lovers of the classic cheeseburger with fries (sweet potato fries, of course, which along with an unusually wide variety of milkshake flavours originally set the Bistro apart from its competitors); partisans of the slightly heftier prime rib burger introduced in the Nineties; lovers of the recent decision to make the Double-Down the centerpiece of the Trek Bistro Menu; and those longstanding customers who want new choices but are wondering about the Double-Down's long-term effects on the arteries, and may be interested in seeing some other new items on the menu, like burger wraps or possibly even the occasional veggie burger.

Now, most conversation about those choices can be perfectly civil and adult. Some people like it all, some people find the prime rib burger too rich or the cheeseburger too old-fashioned, some people look at the Double Down and frankly no matter how well it sells, it makes them throw up a little bit in their mouths. That's okay. End of the day, we're all still customers at the Bistro.

But then there are the people who want it generally known that if you don't care for the Double Down, you are either a fanatic, vicious and deluded partisan of outmoded menu choices or a pretentious would-be vendor of yuppie menu choices like probiotic-rich goat cheese burgers made from organic grass-feed beef... and at any rate your failure to recognize that the Double Down's popularity makes it objectively good both for you and for the Bistro -- that it is the only true inheritor of the classic cheeseburger and that all future dishes should be versions of the Double Down -- means you must be denounced and shouted down at every opportunity.

Oddly enough, these people are generally of the belief that everyone else is acting nuttily.

 

[Salinga]

I forgot one low moment:

- When in STID the horrible death of millions of people during the ship crash became just a plain special effects backdrop for a fight between Spock and Khan.

 

[T'Girl]

That is a "illogical" piece of the movie. Earth is a major world, high tech. When the starships (both of them) began to enter the atmostphere, regardless of the reason shouldn't orbital or ground based tractor beams (or sky-tugboats, or something else) have grabbed them and forceible held them in orbit until the details could be figured out?

We've seen in Star Trek that their technology does fail from time to time, their society would take that into account. A large ship fall out of the sky and there no attempt to avert deaster?

With a couple of centuries of space travel behind them, something similar has never happen before?

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I forgot one low moment:

- When in STID the horrible death of millions of people during the ship crash became just a plain special effects backdrop for a fight between Spock and Khan.

That is a "illogical" piece of the movie. Earth is a major world, high tech. When the starships (both of them) began to enter the atmostphere, regardless of the reason shouldn't orbital or ground based tractor beams (or sky-tugboats, or something else) have grabbed them and forceible held them in orbit until the details could be figured out?

We've seen in Star Trek that their technology does fail from time to time, their society would take that into account. A large ship fall out of the sky and there no attempt to avert disaster?

With a couple of centuries of space travel behind them, this has never happen before?

That also bothered me. (One of the many things in that film I had issues with!)

Like T'Girl mentioned, it's interesting that no one (or nothing) was there to avert those two ships before they even hit Earth's atmosphere....especially since we saw various ships in the previous film gearing up to face Nero.

 

[scotpens]

For me APotA is the worst of the worst and even the gratuitous "fuck you" that TATV is, cannot insult me as much as gangsters in space did.

More so than Nazis in space, Romans in space, American Indians in space, Abe Lincoln in space, the OK Corral gunfight in space, or hippies in space?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

partisans of the slightly heftier prime rib burger introduced in the Nineties; lovers of the recent decision to make the Double-Down the centerpiece of the Trek Bistro Menu;

Yeah, the difference between Old trek and nuTrek is more like the difference between a McDonald's double cheeseburger and a Burger King double cheeseburger.

Oddly enough, these people are generally of the belief that everyone else is acting nuttily.

Well when one side tends to exaggerate old Star Trek into some highbrow thesis on the triumph of humanity, when it was, is, and always just be an entertaining television program they kind of do look a little nutty.

 

[BigJake]

Well when one side tends to exaggerate old Star Trek into some highbrow thesis on the triumph of humanity, when it was, is, and always just be an entertaining television program they kind of do look a little nutty.

It's basically equally deluded to pretend a) that the Great Bird of the Galaxy had some cohesive vision of a utopian future, and b) that Trek never had any aspirations in entertainment to doing anything more sophisticated than the Big Dumb Action format. When someone contends b) while deriding a) as "nutty," there is oftentimes a slight whiff of the pistachio around the proceedings.

 

[Random_Spock]

partisans of the slightly heftier prime rib burger introduced in the Nineties; lovers of the recent decision to make the Double-Down the centerpiece of the Trek Bistro Menu;

Yeah, the difference between Old trek and nuTrek is more like the difference between a McDonald's double cheeseburger and a Burger King double cheeseburger.

Nope. Both of those would be too classy . It would be the difference between those two and a White Castle Burger . Man those things are just bad.