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TrekBBS vs. the Music

I guess that I do not dislike Bush...but for me, they kind of blend in with that whole gang of 90's post-grunge alternative rock bands that had some good tunes, but didn't really bring anything 'new' to the table. Which is fine. Not everyone needs to bring in something new. But what can I say? Nothing will match the first time I heard Nirvana or Pearl Jam and thought "Holy shit! These guys are gonna change the universe as we know it!" :lol:

This is a question, not an argument starter, so no offense intended: What did Nirvana and Pearl Jam bring that was so "new?" Because to me they didn't do anything that indie label bands of the '80s had been doing as well or better. Not to take anything away from Nirvana, because they were a great band, but what did they have that X, the Minutemen, Hüsker Dü, the Replacements, the Pixies, the Meat Puppets, Sonic Youth etc. didn't have? And album for album, I don't think they stand up that well with those bands. When I saw Nirvana open for Dinosaur Jr. in 1991 I thought they were really good (and LOUD), but never had any idea that they would break out like they did because they didn't stand out that much and were certainly no better than the headliner. Six months later they were the biggest thing in the world. To me it always seemed like they were the right band at the right time, when the underground stuff had percolated down to little brother and sister, who wanted that sound but from a band of their own. But that might just be my bias and I'm missing something.

--Justin
 
Yeah, Nirvana took what was percolating and brought it to the front, but I think that is arguably the case with every movement in music (you could make the same argument with the Beatles). I think they had attitude and ambition that helped them as well. Ironically, Cobain changed styles quite a lot between Bleach and Nevermind. Essentially, he made pop songs (used loosely here to include most mainstream rock) with a bit of an edge that drew a lot of people into music that was a bit rawer than they would normally listen to.
 
^Great points, but was it "new?" I don't think it's comparable to the Beatles, because keeping all the songwriting and playing within the band, with two (or more) front men, and having the band strongly involved in recording and production was still very unusual in their day.

And I don't discount attitude and ambition or pop sensibility, but again it was hardly unique to Nirvana. X topped critics' polls in the biggest papers, was on Letterman and American Bandstand, was on movie soundtracks, even had a movie made about them, and still couldn't get played on the radio. The Replacements, "Tim" and beyond, combined some wonderful hooks and melodies with their unpolished punk sound and attitude, the critics loved it... and they couldn't crack 200,000 album sales. Nirvana maybe had an "it" factor that I don't pick up on, but I think the wide audience was just ready in a way they hadn't been a couple of years before.

--Justin
 
Hey, I have nothing against Irish music. I'm actually surprised the middle song wasn't the Pogues or Dropkick Murphy.

:techman: Another day, then... :devil:


Enrique Iglesias - Hero
Heh, here's a blast from the high school past. It's... not really my thing. I mean, he's a fine singer, and the music is nice. I can't really fault anything about the song - sweet, endearing, nice sound. A bit schmaltzy maybe, but it's obvious what Enrique's going for here, and I can't blame it for being as popular as it was. Call it a 6/10 on my personal scale, but I wouldn't argue with somebody putting it much higher. Sidenote: is that Jennifer Love Hewitt in the video?

Matchbox Twenty - Bed of Lies
Ahh, I do really enjoy Matchbox Twenty. A bit slower than their normal stuff, but I like it. Good sound, low and mysterious at the beginning and getting more confident as it goes along. I like the lyrics, they go well with the sound. The instrumentation is very nice but not overpowering. I'm always happy to listen to more Matchbox 20. 9/10

Anastasia - Once Upon a December
I love this song. I don't care its source or that with Anastasia Don Bluth essentially said "fuck it, I'll just make a Disney movie since I can't beat them with my usual stuff." And no, I really don't care about the historical inaccuracy or that the Russian revolution in this film was essentially started by, err... evil. Speaking of mysterious, etherial songs, "Once Upon a December" definitely qualifies as this. Lost family, not knowing what happened, missing what used to be? It helps that the singing is good and the background music works well. 10/10.

My three:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR3Vdo5etCQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0a9WFkgzU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjQ9tuuTJQ
 
No Doubt - Don't Speak
I'm not sure if I'm just less of a musical snob than I used to be or if it's nostalgia, but I like No Doubt a lot more than I used to. Certainly, I'd much rather have Gwen Stefani in No Doubt than on her own. For a punk/new wave/ska ballot ballot, it's not bad. The chorus is good to sing along to. 4/5

Through Heaven's Eyes from Prince of Egypt
Pretty normal Disney-esque song from a Disney-esque movie. Doesn't really do much to stand out, sad to say. 2/5

Foo Fighters - Pretender
I was very underwhelmed by this album, but I don't think the singles are to blame. Pretender is a very good mix of subdued and Dave Grohl over the top. Pretty much a straight forward Foo Fighters rock song. As always, it's fun to just scream like an idiot (a lot of his songs that aren't quite masterpieces fit in this category). 4/5

I'm going to put all my eggs in one basket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJWug-AHHU8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arQ--6zTnug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_e2lxacQ08
 
As this is one post in a while where all the videos work for me, I'll give it a go. Who knows when I'll be this lucky the next time?

Green Day - Christie Road

Ah, Green Day. I remember when we were all totally enthusiastic about "Dookie". Well, I was, anyway. However, a bit later, they sort of lost me. That goes for the whole fun punk thing. Ok to listen to, but nothing I would really go out of my way to own.
This song starts of promising with good guitar work in the background but it just sort of meanders on without much happening. Good song, but not great. At least, in my opinion.


The Network - Money Money 2020

I haven't heard of this band before. The song sounds very interesting. Again, good guitar work and I like the electronic effect on the voice. Good song, but a bit monotonous. I could imagine checking out more of their songs, though.


Foxboro Hot Tubs - Ruby Room

I haven't heard of this band, either. It sounds like happy alternative or something like that. Almost the best of the bunch, I'd say.


I wonder what you mean by saying that you put all your eggs in one basket. At first, I thought you meant that all the songs had a common theme but couldn't come up with one, other than the first two videos having (misspelled) lyrics. ;)

Anyway, this inspired me to go with a theme for my selection. All the songs are in foreignese (well, to most of you, anyway).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb-7pGHY8GI

Couldn't find it on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF8EsHLAj_Q&feature=related
 
Anyway, this inspired me to go with a theme for my selection. All the songs are in foreignese (well, to most of you, anyway).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb-7pGHY8GI

Couldn't find it on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF8EsHLAj_Q&feature=related

1. mob "Mich kriegt ihr nicht"

Never heard before. In German...vocals sound good...the music is good. The guys in the vid were kinda dorky. 9/10.

2. No Access in my country. :( [edit] I did a search on 3 different sites and came up with the same thing.

3. Fettes Brot "An Tagen wie Diesen"

Never heard. In German...Pop/hip hop...I wasn't feeling it...it wasn't bad. 7/10.

Here are mine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIf2zyDoWn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5muvLgHjC2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1ob8ZImTpo
 
That time period was strange for me in the early 90's when Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice And Chains & Soundgarden were becoming popular I was still listening to Guns N Roses & Metallica...also listen to alot of pop from that time...but by the mid 90's when Bush became popular I had begun to listen to them and alot of alternative rock. I do remember being into Nu Metal...like KoRn in the mid 90's before it really got big later on.

Well, in the late 80's/early 90's, I was listening to Guns N Roses...but not really Metallica. I'm trying to remember...but I think that at that time, most of what I was listening do was Springsteen (who I have been a fan of for a very long time), Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi (also a long-time fan), Van Halen (ditto) and bands like R.E.M. and Queen. Also a bit of punk, like say, Jane's Addiction. IIRC. But I was sort of getting bored with arena rock as a whole by that time, and as a result, while I did like some GnR songs, I was never a massive fan or anything. I liked them when they came out (what was it, about 87 or so???? 88 maybe?)...but I just sort of saw them as more of the same thing bands like Van Halen, Bon Jovi and Aerosmith had been doing since the late 70's or early 80's when I was a kid. So I was ready for something different.

I guess you could say I was pretty ripe for Grunge.

This is a question, not an argument starter, so no offense intended: What did Nirvana and Pearl Jam bring that was so "new?" Because to me they didn't do anything that indie label bands of the '80s had been doing as well or better. Not to take anything away from Nirvana, because they were a great band, but what did they have that X, the Minutemen, Hüsker Dü, the Replacements, the Pixies, the Meat Puppets, Sonic Youth etc. didn't have? And album for album, I don't think they stand up that well with those bands. When I saw Nirvana open for Dinosaur Jr. in 1991 I thought they were really good (and LOUD), but never had any idea that they would break out like they did because they didn't stand out that much and were certainly no better than the headliner. Six months later they were the biggest thing in the world. To me it always seemed like they were the right band at the right time, when the underground stuff had percolated down to little brother and sister, who wanted that sound but from a band of their own. But that might just be my bias and I'm missing something.

Well, you sort of mixed up a whole bunch of sounds there and called them all one thing (80's indie rock)...and I don't think that they were. And like AJ said...it's not like any of this is compartmentalized. It's more like a river, IMO...and while some bands change the course of the river, it's still the same river. It's a meaningful bend in the river...not a 'whole new thing' that I'm talking about when I refer to something being 'new'. I mean, by your logic, no one has done anything 'new' since the 1950's (or really, by logical extension, the very beginnings of 'music' itself)...because it's ALL been flowing forward from the same original source, you know? But I think that when each musical generation takes the river in a different direction or moves it a step forward, that, to me, is 'new'.

Punk grew out of rock, for example...but it's STILL rock. To me, punk was 'new'...but by your logic, maybe not.

Husker Du, to me, was more of a pure a punk band (although punk existed before them). Meat Puppets were punk into cowpunk - taking the punk genre in a 'new' direction. It was STILL punk...but I consider what the Meat Puppets did 'new'.

I think that similarly, the Grunge bands took chiefly two influences - 1. the 'hard' arena rock they grew up with (can't speak as much about Nirvana in this regard, but I can tell you that the members of Pearl Jam grew up worshiping The Who); and 2. Punk (in Pearl Jam's case, the Ramones were the chief influence, I would say); and fused them together. In some cases, I think some of the grunge bands threw some alt rock influences into the mix as well (Screaming Trees for sure did this)....but the 'new' thing here was the fusion of that mix of influences, plus the addition of some of the 'characteristic' grunge markings - fuzzying up the sound, for example....and perhaps pressing the envelope on some lyrical issues farther than it had been pressed by most bands outside of hardcore punk. Grunge, to me, did not generate a new shoot on the tree - instead, it brought back together a few earlier shoots that had gone different directions into one again - only it looked different than before the split, because of what both shoots had been doing in the meantime.

I don't know...I simply do not see bands like Husker Du, the Pixies, and Meat Puppets as all one big 80's thing. I see them as all doing different stuff...with grunge sort of bringing it all back together under one 'rock' roof again...only looking a lot different than it did before punk split from rock and morphed into cowpunk, etc.

That's the best I can do at explaining what I think was 'new' about Grunge. But I think that if you haven't seen it by now, you probably won't, even after my explanation. It might just be a matter of looking at the river from the river bank rather than from 30,000 feet up in a plane. Still the same river...but the guy on the ground is going to see things differently than the guy in the plane. :)
 
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1. Tori Amos - Gold Dust
I have always liked Tori Amos's songwriting abilities more than her actual singing voice. This song is no exception. A beautiful song that I really like. But there is something about her voice that is ever-so-slightly annoying to me. I mean, she's in tune and all that...but some of her musical 'mannerisms' bother me. Not so much when she's only singing one song, as in this case...but because of them I can't take a whole album of her at one sitting. Still, for one song at a time (and a beautiful one at that), 4/5.

2. Placebo - Pure Morning
I love this song. Don't like the video though, since I'm sort of afraid of heights IRL and this video REALLY brushes up against that issue in a huge way until the 'surprise' ending. But the song itself is great, as is the singing of it. This is my favorite song of the bunch. 5/5

3. Strife - 'Untitled' Victory Records
Well, we've sort of been down this road before, with the death metal 'singers'. Not a fan of the death metal singers. :lol: The song itself is okay - pretty typical metalhead. But I just can't get past the yelling/screeching thing. 2/5

My songs for this round:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwQueTa9bu4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6fEFsLwpp4&feature=feedf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNvXRJQ0XDU (most awesome song lyrics EVER! :lol: )
 
1. Tori Amos - Gold Dust
I have always liked Tori Amos's songwriting abilities more than her actual singing voice. This song is no exception. A beautiful song that I really like. But there is something about her voice that is ever-so-slightly annoying to me. I mean, she's in tune and all that...but some of her musical 'mannerisms' bother me. Not so much when she's only singing one song, as in this case...but because of them I can't take a whole album of her at one sitting. Still, for one song at a time (and a beautiful one at that), 4/5.

It is funny...Tori Amos is my favorite...I could only listen to her all the time and often do. :lol:
 
1. Tori Amos - Gold Dust
I have always liked Tori Amos's songwriting abilities more than her actual singing voice. This song is no exception. A beautiful song that I really like. But there is something about her voice that is ever-so-slightly annoying to me. I mean, she's in tune and all that...but some of her musical 'mannerisms' bother me. Not so much when she's only singing one song, as in this case...but because of them I can't take a whole album of her at one sitting. Still, for one song at a time (and a beautiful one at that), 4/5.


It is funny...Tori Amos is my favorite...I could only listen to her all the time and often do. :lol:

So in what decade are you and I going to agree about everything? Cus I figure we have it coming, at this point. :lol:
 
So in what decade are you and I going to agree about everything? Cus I figure we have it coming, at this point. :lol:

My taste are varied...there is plenty of stuff I like you might like. I do like Nirvana now and like The Foo Fighters. :p
 
[...]That's the best I can do at explaining what I think was 'new' about Grunge. But I think that if you haven't seen it by now, you probably won't, even after my explanation. It might just be a matter of looking at the river from the river bank rather than from 30,000 feet up in a plane. Still the same river...but the guy on the ground is going to see things differently than the guy in the plane. :)

Thanks for a great response to my question, which shows me that there are indeed subtleties that I have overlooked. The reason I grouped together the bands that I did was not sound, but because of their "scene" and the fact that most fans of one were fans of at least some of the others. They definitely have different sounds.

Likewise I tend to think of "new" in terms of origins and history rather than sound. There is, indeed, not much in sound that hasn't been done. Punk was new because it grew out of underground scenes and clubs with anti-commercial sound and attitude and a DIY ethos and took off by word of mouth and amateur promotion. Sub Pop was, to me, an outgrowth of those scenes, but it doesn't seem much different in origin from, say, Slash or SST.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion!

Justin
 

1. Built To Spill - Car
Not the sort of thing I'd often listen to, but there were some good lyrics on occasion. The music was a bit dry, but when the lyrics started to go faster, I liked it. 6/10

2. Machine Head - Only The Names
Never really got the attraction of heavy metal, but this is better than some. Again, when the lyrics showed up, and the music quietened for a bit, it got better, but there was too much noise for a lot of the time. 5/10

3. The Lemonheads - Being Around
I can see what you mean about the lyrics ;). Being a lot softer than the other two, I enjoyed this one the most. It does also give me a little bit of a WTF?, but a good one. Enjoy the crazyness, I guess. 8/10

My songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3NwJF28wjU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRFHiBW9RE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-FWDsXUCes
 
1. mob "Mich kriegt ihr nicht"

Never heard before. In German...vocals sound good...the music is good. The guys in the vid were kinda dorky. 9/10.

Hehe. I think many musicians are a bit dorky. At least all the ones I know are. The video is a bit weird, but the guy in the bear costume is a friend of mine. He's also the founder of the indie label this band is on and I remember how enthusiastically he told me about the making of this video, so I like it. It has no real connection to the song, though.


2. No Access in my country. :( [edit] I did a search on 3 different sites and came up with the same thing.

:( Aw, damn. It's such a great song. ;) I had trouble finding a video with the song at all, as I had with a number of other songs I wanted to post. (Looks as if some of those artists are just too obscure for this.)
 
[...]That's the best I can do at explaining what I think was 'new' about Grunge. But I think that if you haven't seen it by now, you probably won't, even after my explanation. It might just be a matter of looking at the river from the river bank rather than from 30,000 feet up in a plane. Still the same river...but the guy on the ground is going to see things differently than the guy in the plane. :)

Thanks for a great response to my question, which shows me that there are indeed subtleties that I have overlooked. The reason I grouped together the bands that I did was not sound, but because of their "scene" and the fact that most fans of one were fans of at least some of the others. They definitely have different sounds.

Likewise I tend to think of "new" in terms of origins and history rather than sound. There is, indeed, not much in sound that hasn't been done. Punk was new because it grew out of underground scenes and clubs with anti-commercial sound and attitude and a DIY ethos and took off by word of mouth and amateur promotion. Sub Pop was, to me, an outgrowth of those scenes, but it doesn't seem much different in origin from, say, Slash or SST.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion!

Justin

Ah yes! When I reread your other post and this one together, I begin to suspect that we have sort of a different definition of 'new'. I think you are looking more at historical facts - what 'scene' stuff grew out of, physical stuff the band did (the comment about the Beatles being 'new' because they had multiple songwriters/frontmen, etc tipped me off to this too - I don't consider them to be 'new' because of that, but more because of their unique 'sound').

I can see your wary of looking at it...but that's not what I was referring to...which by your post, I see you have figured out too. :lol: To me, it's about putting together a 'new sounding' thing - most often from 2 or more earlier influences combined in a new way. There was punk, and there was country/western before them...but when Meat Puppets smashed them together and created a 'cowpunk' sound, that was 'new'. The early grunge did something similar - Punk split from hard rock...then those two branches grew and evolved sort of separately...and then grunge brought them back together again...only thanks to the evolution of both branches during the interim, the 'new' grunge sound didn't sound much at all like hard rock before the punk split-off. So that made it 'new'. At least to people like me.:lol:

You know, though...from a historical perspective, there are aspects to grunge that you might consider to be 'new'. In the late 80's/early 90's in Seattle (before grunge was even called that, and the bands were just getting going) the Seattle seedy club scene was quite dynamic. Many of these grunge bands and the Seattle bands they grew out of were sort of isolated - Seattle was not that big of a place then, and often thought of as the ass-end of nowhere. So nobody really big ever came through there - they had to make their own music. As the club scene evolved, all these guys in all of these bands became friends...and it is said that often most of any given band's audience at a gig was made up of members of the other bands. Seattle was like it's own little closed community musical experiment...they all knew each other, were friends, etc. That is why you have so many Seattle bands that are related through their members having been in other bands together before they were in the band they are most known for; their members doing side project bands together while the 'main' bands of all the members were still hugely active, etc. What became known as the Seattle grunge bands are about the most incestuous bunch of musicians ever! :lol: And while that might have happened here or there before grunge...I don't think it ever happened on that scale before grunge. I think you could make a game like the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon called 'The Three Degrees of Stone Gossard' and pull in about every Seattle grunge band member who ever was quite easily. :lol:
 
3. The Lemonheads - Being Around
I can see what you mean about the lyrics ;). Being a lot softer than the other two, I enjoyed this one the most. It does also give me a little bit of a WTF?, but a good one. Enjoy the crazyness, I guess. 8/10

:lol: Yeah...you know when that song came out in the early/mid 90's, I remember hearing it for the first time and doing a double take: "Did that guy just sing a lyric about BOOGERS????" :lol:

Anyway, at the time, this song created a bit of a 'stir', IIRC. Everyone thought it was hilarious.
 

1. Inna "Amazing"

Never heard before. This is like electronica/dance. Pretty good...the vid is slick. 8/10.

2. Noisettes "Never Forget You"

Never heard before. Um...this is rather original...rock/pop & very old school feel(50's/early 60's)...but a recent artist. Pretty good. 8/10.

3. Not available in my country???

Here are mine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3pzIzlcCMs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52wQc_SJcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68XHaz98CeU
 
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