darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Seconded, thirded, voted, motion carries...mods, can we get the hook now?
TREK tech vs STAR WARS
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
- Start date
Seconded, thirded, voted, motion carries...mods, can we get the hook now?
^^^
Is that your only argument? You have seen Star Wars yes? Both "BIG space stations" were destroyed by a hand full of rebels.
Starfleet has one thing the empire does not. A transporter; forget having to fly a ship into an all to convenient trench. Or into a maintenance space big enough to fly a freighter through. All you'd have to do is beam a large shielded explosive device into the stations core and detonate.
Now the Star destroyers on the other hand....
Is that your only argument? You have seen Star Wars yes? Both "BIG space stations" were destroyed by a hand full of rebels.
Starfleet has one thing the empire does not. A transporter; forget having to fly a ship into an all to convenient trench. Or into a maintenance space big enough to fly a freighter through. All you'd have to do is beam a large shielded explosive device into the stations core and detonate.
Now the Star destroyers on the other hand....
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
The single LEAST objective site on the 'net?
Asking them for an objective evaluation of Trek vs Wars is like asking the Daily KOS for an objective evaluation of Republicans.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Launch single torpedo size missile with tri-lithium based "sunkiller" bomb warhead at sun, whole solar system go BOOM!
Darn it...I'm getting sucked in AGAIN...
Launch single torpedo size missile with tri-lithium based "sunkiller" bomb warhead at sun, whole solar system go BOOM!
Darn it...I'm getting sucked in AGAIN...
Star Wars would reply with the insanely uber Sun crusher with its resonance torpedoes and layered molecular armour. Or maybe use a Galaxy gun, World Devastators, Super-laser equipped star dreadnoughts, centerpoint station, etc...one thing Star Wars is not short of is super weapons.
As long as things can remain civil, I'd prefer not to lock this thread. We see countless age-old questions get repeated on this board, because after awhile there's not much new to talk about. I tend to view the whole idea as apples and oranges anyway, which is why I think the poll should have an option for the B5 universe to win. 
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
As long as things can remain civil, I'd prefer not to lock this thread. We see countless age-old questions get repeated on this board, because after awhile there's not much new to talk about. I tend to view the whole idea as apples and oranges anyway, which is why I think the poll should have an option for the B5 universe to win.
This thread MIGHT last until the idiots over at SD.net find out about it...guaranteed it'll go to you-know-where in a handbasket after that...
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
They'd say a lot of other things too, like trying to bring in some of the Star Wars "tech" books, despite being entirely NON-canon per Lucas. They do that becasue most of the latter ones were written by someone very close to them who likes to throw out large firepower numbers SPECIFICALLY to make Wars look better.
They also like to use contortions of logic to try to deny or explain away pro-Trek facts and figures. The most infamous example is Trek weapons ranges. Dialogue in the ep says the range is "X". The Warsies at SD.net say "that's not what the footage shows", they must've read their instruments wrong!" That's their excuse ANY time dialogue makes Trek look better. That Starfleet professionals can't read their own instruments correctly.
Of course that logic is NEVER applied to their precious Empire.
Then there are their less savory "debating" tactics, like board swarming, thread trolling, and general disrespecting of other's opinions.
Go to SDnet sometime...look at the names they use for Trek fans (like "Trektard"). Look at how many threads actually advocate a pro-Trek position. Not too damn many, since they get swarmed then shut by Darth Wrong...excuse me Wong, or one of his pet moderators.
Anyone who can SERIOUSLY challenge them, like Darkstar, is summarily banned. They also have a special password protected "members only" forum, where threads about topics Wrong doesn't want the public to see get put.
They also like to use contortions of logic to try to deny or explain away pro-Trek facts and figures. The most infamous example is Trek weapons ranges. Dialogue in the ep says the range is "X". The Warsies at SD.net say "that's not what the footage shows", they must've read their instruments wrong!" That's their excuse ANY time dialogue makes Trek look better. That Starfleet professionals can't read their own instruments correctly.
Of course that logic is NEVER applied to their precious Empire.
Then there are their less savory "debating" tactics, like board swarming, thread trolling, and general disrespecting of other's opinions.
Go to SDnet sometime...look at the names they use for Trek fans (like "Trektard"). Look at how many threads actually advocate a pro-Trek position. Not too damn many, since they get swarmed then shut by Darth Wrong...excuse me Wong, or one of his pet moderators.
Anyone who can SERIOUSLY challenge them, like Darkstar, is summarily banned. They also have a special password protected "members only" forum, where threads about topics Wrong doesn't want the public to see get put.
But aren't we talking about the same Starfleet professionals who routinely fly perfectly good starships through radioactive death clouds simply because they seem not to have mastered the simple concepts of "up" and "down" in space? Maybe they can't read their own instruments.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
In case it had eluded you, "radioactive death clouds" ALSO exist in more than two dimensions. When you are at point A and need to be at point B as fast as possible and point b is on the other side of the RDC, you take a risk.
So, which one are you over there?
*Edit* here's a thread that's a good example of SDnet at it's "finest", esp read some of Darth Wrong...er Wong's posts: http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=114007&start=0
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Numerous. Lucas' production company has complicated matters a bit by trying to introduce the concept of "lesser canon", but Lucas himself has said "movies only".
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWCanon.html
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWCanon2-testing.html
Looks like we're not waiting for the SD.net folk to arrive before we start becoming uncivil.
That thread definitely has a pro-Star Wars slant but if you go to a site with Star Destroyer in its url what do you expect? As someone said earlier both sides are just as guilty of selective interpretation to further their side of the argument.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Take a look at the rest of the forum...the thread is typical, if not MILD compared to some.
And no, both sides are NOT just as guilty. Darkstar's site is well researched and well reasoned. he doesn't say ANTHING he can't back up, as the two pages on canon I linked to prove.
^ You're entitled to your opinion, but in my experience of these types of arguments both sides are just as guilty of been selective with what they accept so to push their argument. I'd at least agree that Darkstar's site isn't as in your face with bias as SD.net is, can't comment on how well researched it is without going through and reading a fair bit of it...can't say I'm that interested in the debate.
Ok, I'll bite, but I'll gum up the works some more by adding a social element as well.
Presuming a LARGE wormhole was found between universes (so we don't limit the numbers of ships that can enter each other's universes) here is how I see the scenario play out.
Starfleet seems to have a stronger (if smaller) space fleet but the Empire wins the ground combat fights. Hence, Starfleet's tactics should be to stop the Empire from reaching any planets, and the Empire's goal would be to get to the ground as quickly as possible with shielded battle droids, Imperial Walkers, etc.
Alas, things are probably not this easy, because:
The remnants of the Jedi would presumably join the Federation in the fight against the Empire.
The Klingons would fight against the Empire as well since it's better to die on one's feet than live on one's knees.
The Ferengi would pay lip service against the Empire, but would sell Alpha Quadrant technology to Palpatine almost immediately.
The Romulans, seeing an advantage, would play both sides against each other to gain a tactical advantage over both.
The Cardassians would probably see Palpatine as a symbol of strength and join the Empire. Of course this also depends upon whether this scenario is set before or after the Dominion War.
Speaking of the Dominion, they would probably side with the Federation on this one just because the Empire would be more unknown and therefore more of a threat to the Changlings than the pesky solids.
The Q wouldn't involve themselves at all (except maybe to torment Picard a bit).
The Borg, if involved at all, could cause problems for the Empire, but it all depends upon Palpatine's strategy. Since light sabres seem to be of unlimited power and can cut through anything, I could imagine that Stormtroopers would be equipped with these as secondary, Borg fighting weapons. Then we'd get to test the old paradox about which would win, the sword that can pierce anything or the shield that cannot be pierced by anything.
In essence, I think that unless one side rushed in and dominated quickly, this scenario would devolve into a dirty fight in which the sides became blurred and the best of each side's tech became incorporated into the arsenal's of the other.
Presuming a LARGE wormhole was found between universes (so we don't limit the numbers of ships that can enter each other's universes) here is how I see the scenario play out.
Starfleet seems to have a stronger (if smaller) space fleet but the Empire wins the ground combat fights. Hence, Starfleet's tactics should be to stop the Empire from reaching any planets, and the Empire's goal would be to get to the ground as quickly as possible with shielded battle droids, Imperial Walkers, etc.
Alas, things are probably not this easy, because:
The remnants of the Jedi would presumably join the Federation in the fight against the Empire.
The Klingons would fight against the Empire as well since it's better to die on one's feet than live on one's knees.
The Ferengi would pay lip service against the Empire, but would sell Alpha Quadrant technology to Palpatine almost immediately.
The Romulans, seeing an advantage, would play both sides against each other to gain a tactical advantage over both.
The Cardassians would probably see Palpatine as a symbol of strength and join the Empire. Of course this also depends upon whether this scenario is set before or after the Dominion War.
Speaking of the Dominion, they would probably side with the Federation on this one just because the Empire would be more unknown and therefore more of a threat to the Changlings than the pesky solids.
The Q wouldn't involve themselves at all (except maybe to torment Picard a bit).
The Borg, if involved at all, could cause problems for the Empire, but it all depends upon Palpatine's strategy. Since light sabres seem to be of unlimited power and can cut through anything, I could imagine that Stormtroopers would be equipped with these as secondary, Borg fighting weapons. Then we'd get to test the old paradox about which would win, the sword that can pierce anything or the shield that cannot be pierced by anything.
In essence, I think that unless one side rushed in and dominated quickly, this scenario would devolve into a dirty fight in which the sides became blurred and the best of each side's tech became incorporated into the arsenal's of the other.
Right, but the ones in question - in the episodes "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (TOS), "One" (VOY), "Catwalk" and "Doctors Orders" (ENT) - are visibly wider than they are high and deep, with clear space for parsecs, which means it wouldn't be as big a deal to pass it above or below as it would be to go around, and under those circumstances only a low grade moron would deliberately choose to plow through it at full tilt.
An unnecessary risk. They're SPACECRAFT, not cars.
Nobody. I only lurk over there.
Well, for ship-to-ship combat alone, the advantage goes to Star Trek and warp drive hands-down. Warp drive, while seemingly slower than hyperspace, allows you to maneuver and engage in combat at FTL speeds, even against STL targets. The Imperial Fleet wouldn't stand a chance against opponents zipping around them faster than light - all they could really do is escape to hyperspace.
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