Trek Ship Design, Why did the underside bridge go out of style?

[StarCruiser]

You don’t get to decide what is or is not canon. They (CBS) own the franchise. They (CBS) is the final and ultimate arbiter of what is or is not Trek canon. Now, you don’t have to like that’s is canon Prime Timeline. But you don’t get to decide that if isn’t.

I DO get to decide what I watch and I don't care at all about STD or JJ Drek, as neither has managed to live up to the standard I expect of decent Star Trek. Lots of lensflare and shaky-cam (thanks a lot JJ) and piles of flashy special effects cannot make up for poor writing and often hollow story telling.

I'm not saying that TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT were perfect. Each had good and bad episodes and a mix of good and bad writing in general. Often, that is caused by production issues outside of the control of those in charge but, at their worst, they at least TRIED to give us something worth watching.

I generally find that TOS/TNG/DS9 stand up better as they seem to have had the advantage of coming earlier and before some of the existing writers starting "running out of ideas". When Manny Coto took over ENT, things did improve but, that was too little, too late.

I couldn't even vaguely handle the pilot of STD on broadcast TV, it was sooo bad. I managed maybe 20 odd minutes and then moved on...

 

[1001001]

I couldn't even vaguely handle the pilot of STD on broadcast TV, it was sooo bad. I managed maybe 20 odd minutes and then moved on...

Well, at least you gave it a fair shot...

 

[StarCruiser]

Well, at least you gave it a fair shot...

And the really sad thing is... I WANTED it to be at least decent and it wasn't...

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Don' t mince words, "StarCruiser"; what do you really think?

 

[StarCruiser]

Well, I COULD use the "French" explanation of how I feel about it but, most people don't like that so...

 

[Rahul]

I maintain that it doesn't matter where the bridge is, really, because once your shields fail your ship is going to get shredded regardless.

My personal pet theory is that the domes are both the primary sensors and generating the shields, aka the critical nerve center of the ship, and thus at their position the shields are the strongest and the access to data the shortest.

 

[Gary7]

I maintain that it doesn't matter where the bridge is, really, because once your shields fail your ship is going to get shredded regardless.

Well, with shields down the special alloys of the hull do provide some protection. What would make perfect sense is a bridge housed midway inside the center of the saucer section. Design it as a lifeboat as well, so if there's a need to scuttle the ship, the bridge can be "ejected". Equipped with sub light engines, it can at least navigate to a starbase or land on a class M planet.

 

[T'Boggan]

A direct hit to the septic tank and it would all drain down to the bridge! Nice...

 

[DonIago]

Well, with shields down the special alloys of the hull do provide some protection. What would make perfect sense is a bridge housed midway inside the center of the saucer section. Design it as a lifeboat as well, so if there's a need to scuttle the ship, the bridge can be "ejected". Equipped with sub light engines, it can at least navigate to a starbase or land on a class M planet.

In TUC we see a torpedo go in one side of the saucer and out the other, so I'd maintain that putting the bridge in the middle of it will make little difference.

 

[Timo]

the Malachowski class also appears to be have an underside bridge, or at least has a set of windows similar to the Walker's bridge down there.

Interesting! I'm not seeing it, though... The onscreen shots have the spotlight glare down there, but the side view just shows a standard topside bridge and some steep structures on the underside that don't remind me much of the Shenzhou.

The Nimitz class Europa seems to have a bridge high up on the roll bar, which is remarkable in its own way. But is there another one atop the primary hull? The screenshots don't really tell, and the backstage/Eaglemoss take on the ship might not be accurate (there having been last-minute changes to some of the CGI, apparently, including the many close shots of the Europa); supposedly a bridge was there originally in Eaves' early drawings, but it may have been eliminated ultimately. Or then not.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[valkyrie013]

Depends on who designed it? Andorians? Tellerite? As Scotty said, Young minds, fresh ideas
In a "real world" scenerio, it would be buried at the center of the saucer. but i think I read that its on the top, or bottom because they go out with open arms, see, I'm vulnerable! Pluss you can't see an Ensign blown out of a gappng hole if the bridge is buried deep in the saucer!

 

[Gary7]

In TUC we see a torpedo go in one side of the saucer and out the other, so I'd maintain that putting the bridge in the middle of it will make little difference.

I don't put a lot of stock in TUC... there was much that was wrong in that movie.

 

[DonIago]

By that logic none of what we see in any of the episodes/movies can be considered in making our guesses.

 

[Dukhat]

The dialogue says "Direct hit... decks one through four" immediately after the lower dome is hit and the bridge explodes.

That's more of a disconnect between the script and the VFX. LIke in TNG when phasers are called for but we see photon torpedoes fire. I doubt it was meant to signify that the bridge is underneath the saucer. And even if it was...then what is that large-bridge-looking thing on top of the saucer then?

 

[Gary7]

By that logic none of what we see in any of the episodes/movies can be considered in making our guesses.

Even if we entertain it, being the only "through the hull" torpedo hit from TOS movies, it's one form of attack you're talking about. You're also not accounting for the fact that a centrally situated bridge unit could have special reinforcement, to include it's own inner shields in times of combat engagement (meaning that once engaged in a firefight, the captain can seal off the bridge and have inner shields activated. Not to suggest "screw everyone else", but to ensure the bridge remains intact to control the ship.

 

[bigglesworth]

I believe some people have speculated that the bridge is modular. Lord knows that almost every TOS movie had a different bridge design. The bridge being on top does simplify the process of replacing said bridge module.

That being said, outside of damage, I can't really think of an in-universe explanation of why one would need to replace the whole bridge as opposed to building a bridge that allowed consoles, chairs and even bulkheads to be added/removed or rearranged. I've always felt that the bridge (and sickbay) should be in the most protected area of the ship.

 

[F. King Daniel]

That's more of a disconnect between the script and the VFX. LIke in TNG when phasers are called for but we see photon torpedoes fire. I doubt it was meant to signify that the bridge is underneath the saucer. And even if it was...then what is that large-bridge-looking thing on top of the saucer then?

Ummm... same as that large, bridge-looking thing underneath the saucer on the Enterprise. Are the domes set into them not identical, which kind of implies the rooms inside could be the same?

I wouldn't put it past the VFX team messing up, but I think the result is evidence that Saratoga might have had her bridge underneath.

 

[Tuskin38]

Interesting! I'm not seeing it, though... The onscreen shots have the spotlight glare down there, but the side view just shows a standard topside bridge and some steep structures on the underside that don't remind me much of the Shenzhou.

From the Star Trek Online model.

The window layout is similar to the Walker's bridge, even has the underside windows.

They were given the show used models by CBS for reference material, so I don't think this is something they made up.

Fun fact, Cryptic had to give an actual hard drive to CBS for them to put the files on as CBS didn't want to transfer anything over the web.

 

[Dukhat]

Ummm... same as that large, bridge-looking thing underneath the saucer on the Enterprise. Are the domes set into them not identical, which kind of implies the rooms inside could be the same?

I wouldn't put it past the VFX team messing up, but I think the result is evidence that Saratoga might have had her bridge underneath.

But the top structure is identical to the top structure of the Constitution class refit...which is irrefutably the ship’s bridge. Why build the exact same structure on the top of the Miranda class and have it not be the bridge?

 

[Timo]

From the Star Trek Online model.

Fascinating. Although isn't the Clarke quite a bit smaller than the Shenzhou, making this ventral facility quantitatively different at the very least? In any case, the Malachowski has one of the most identifiable and classic dorsal bridge superstructures of the DSC lot.

She's also a nicely clear-cut design without those, umm, clear cuts that Eaves usually thinks give character to his ships. A very plausible predecessor to the TOS movie style there.

They were given the show used models by CBS for reference material, so I don't think this is something they made up.

Good to know - I'll keep looking for STO clues in the future...

But the top structure is identical to the top structure of the Constitution class refit...which is irrefutably the ship’s bridge. Why build the exact same structure on the top of the Miranda class and have it not be the bridge?

I think a better argument here than the one about the identical top and bottom TOS domes (which sit atop bridges anyway, not actually being the bridges) would be the presence of entire identical top and bottom bridge superstructures on the Constellation class. If a bridge-looking thing is always a bridge, then the Stargazer has two.

Which may well be true. Or then many ships have uses for secondary bridgelike structures that aren't actually bridges but exist for completely different purposes, such as the "emergency manual monitor" of Kirk's TOS ship that clearly wasn't just for emergencies in "Lights of Zetar". Instead of designing an all-new structure for those, Starfleet might opt to simply bolt on more of these "bridge modules" or whatnot.

Timo Saloniemi