Until the budget runs out and they have to start running into humanoids again.
Trek set in an intergalactic level
- Thread starter Voth commando1
- Start date
They could do that here in this galaxy. It just depends on the special effects budget.
I'm really not interested in a "lets build the Federation in this new galaxy" idea.
However, something I do think would be interesting is having a Federation ship lost in the void due to "reasons." Then the series would start with the patched together ship arriving in Andromeda with the third or fourth generation descendants of the original crew in control of the ship.
The Federation is a distant concept to them literally and physically. It could be set in the 24th century, but the ship dates from the 23rd or something like that. What would this crew's attitude/culture be? How would they interact with alien species and planets after being raised in the intergalactic void? Would they even care about trying to get back to their ancestor's home? Would they even try to build an alliance of worlds or would they just stick to themselves? Would they even try and colonize other planets?
I generally think the concept would be more the outer-galactic colonies and member world would have to stand up to a corrupted Federation in the Milky Way. One could even toss in a religious dogma about "one Earth only" if they find other Earths and other humans in other galaxies (forgetting themselves about the likes of Miri's World). Just to give it something different.
Sounds optimistic to me, but it could be interesting.
I think that there would need to be a large budget or creative use of assets in order to showcase the scale of this power. I think that it would be very interesting to have either a frontier base, right on the edge of the Milky Way, and serve as a launch pad for exploring the intergalactic space, and unknown structures (stars, artificial structures leftover, etc). In so doing, they discover another intergalactic power, attempting to reach across to another galaxy as well. They might be open and welcoming at first, and open the doorway for another colony. And then it proceeds from there.
I like the idea of going in to another galaxy, but there has to be a willingness to explore what that might look like, and have unique planets (rogue planets, non-M class, etc) and aliens to match. That's why I say the budget has to increase a lot because there should be some more unique elements to highlight the grandness of the scale.
How is it different than other Star Treks? If done well, then it can showcase the Federation, and by extension humanity, growing and becoming more aware of the larger universe, possibly resulting in some conflicts among Federation members.
I think it could work.
All that is basically window dressing. You can tell the same stories a few dozen light-years from home and still get the same thing. The only difference is the terminology.
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It's not the same in this galaxy as it is in other galaxies. Besides The Chase, it's been established that in all parts of this galaxy the majority of dominant sentient species are humanoid. You can have some non-humanoid races around, but get away from them, you're surrounded by humanoids again.
In another galaxy, there can be *no* humanoids. Get away from one group of non-humanoids and you run into other non-humanoids, equally strange and un-relatable to us. The Federation would be the aliens.
It's not the same in this galaxy as it is in other galaxies. Besides The Chase, it's been established that in all parts of this galaxy the majority of dominant sentient species are humanoid. You can have some non-humanoid races around, but get away from them, you're surrounded by humanoids again.
In another galaxy, there can be *no* humanoids. Get away from one group of non-humanoids and you run into other non-humanoids, equally strange and un-relatable to us. The Federation would be the aliens.
Let's face it. If Star Trek got the budget to add lots of non-humanoids and put them right in this galaxy, just a few fans would complain, citing "The Chase," and no general viewers would. Plenty of other, (arguably) more memorable building blocks of the franchise's universe have been superseded or ignored by new stories.
But personally, I don't want to see a series with no humanoids. A few more non-humanoids would be nice. There were quite a number of them on the original Star Trek series, compared to the later spin-offs, which is surprising and counterintuitive, given the effects limitations of the time. But a show without humanoids or with a majority of non-humanoids wouldn't be very relatable to its human audience. And all those non-humanoids would be written by human writers, so it wouldn't be a truly non-human show, anyway. If the writers took the science of non-humanoid life seriously, it would view like an obtuse, hypothetical thought experiment. If they didn't take the science seriously (more likely), it would be a lot of unmoored, fantastical nonsense.
But personally, I don't want to see a series with no humanoids. A few more non-humanoids would be nice. There were quite a number of them on the original Star Trek series, compared to the later spin-offs, which is surprising and counterintuitive, given the effects limitations of the time. But a show without humanoids or with a majority of non-humanoids wouldn't be very relatable to its human audience. And all those non-humanoids would be written by human writers, so it wouldn't be a truly non-human show, anyway. If the writers took the science of non-humanoid life seriously, it would view like an obtuse, hypothetical thought experiment. If they didn't take the science seriously (more likely), it would be a lot of unmoored, fantastical nonsense.
"The Chase" is very weak evidence that all parts of this galaxy must dominantly humanoid. Let's look at the actual quote from the episode.
HUMANOID: You're wondering who we are, why we have done this, how it has come that I stand before you, the image of a being from so long ago. Life evolved on my planet before all others in this part of the galaxy. We left our world, explored the stars, and found none like ourselves. Our civilization thrived for ages, but what is the life of one race, compared to the vast stretches of cosmic time? We knew that one day we would be gone, that nothing of us would survive. So, we left you. Our scientists seeded the primordial oceans of many worlds, where life was in its infancy. The seed codes directed your evolution toward a physical form resembling ours. This body you see before you, which is, of course, shaped as yours is shaped, for you are the end result. The seed codes also contained this message, which we scattered in fragments on many different worlds. It was our hope that you would have to come together in fellowship and companionship to hear this message. And if you can see and hear me, our hope has been fulfilled. You are a monument, not to our greatness, but to our existence. That was our wish, that you too would know life, and would keep alive our memory. There is something of us in each of you, and so, something of you in each other. Remember us.
This humanoid's assumptions are full of holes. The largest of which is that the "seed codes directed your evolution" line. That's bull crap. DNA doesn't direct evolution. Environment directs evolution. So while the humanoid in the message may have believed that their seeding would direct the evolution of life, there is no evidence that it actually did. In fact we know that DNA can't "direct evolution."
So while the species probably did seed the oceans of many worlds, that the evolution of life on those worlds was directed by the environmental conditions thereon. This would result in a wide variety of non humanoid life, even on those worlds seeded by these humanoids.
So how then do we explain the abundance of humanoids? All we need is one world where life evolved in a humanoid shape and that life took to the stars. My theory is that there was such a world. And the inhabitants thereof then went on to mix their genetics with that of life on many other worlds. They created hybrids of themselves with the prehistoric species on Sargon's planet, which hybrid species became Sargon's people; which later became the Vulcanians; which later became the Romulans. They hybridized themselves with lizards on Cardassia, amphibians on Betazed, crustaceans on Kronos. And on and on. This is how the other fragments of "The Chase" alien's failed "directed evolution" DNA would have gotten into these other species. It also explains how some of these other species are able to reproduce with each other.
We also have the Preservers who took life from earth and sent it out through out the stars. "The Chase" is full of assumptions but little direct evidence. It doesn't seem to me that their explanation holds any water.
In Trek we have no direct evidence that the majority of life in the galaxy is humanoid when we have only explored a small fraction of a fraction the galaxy.
Now having said that, what stories could be told with another galaxy's non-humanoid life, that couldn't be told with our galaxy's non-humanoid life? I want a list of story ideas.
But DS9 and Voyager are strong evidence that most parts of the galaxy are humanoid.
Like I said, the only difference between stories in non-humanoid life in our galaxy and another galaxy is that in the other galaxy you can be completely surrounded by non-humanoid life. Away from your support network, away from the Federation, away from backup. Our heroes are the minority, and they can't expect to relate to people on their own terms or by their own customs.
I guess they could find some obscure faraway corner of the galaxy with no humanoids.
Like I said, the only difference between stories in non-humanoid life in our galaxy and another galaxy is that in the other galaxy you can be completely surrounded by non-humanoid life. Away from your support network, away from the Federation, away from backup. Our heroes are the minority, and they can't expect to relate to people on their own terms or by their own customs.
I guess they could find some obscure faraway corner of the galaxy with no humanoids.
Surely scale must count for something, perhaps in the novel verse?
Aside from having to introduce new terminology (we need to side-warp back to the Milky Way and confer with Starfleet) not really.
Have you heard of the Xelee sequence? Why could something on that scale not work for Star Trek?
I haven't, but a Google search reveals it's a novel series by Stephen Baxter. Relevance?
It takes place in multiple galaxies, across the history of universe, in dimensions strange, and earth itself? Can Star trek do something on that scale?
Would doing something spanning galaxies and dimensions automatically be better than something limited to one quadrant of one galaxy?
Isn't this just swiping the story from the upcoming Mass Effect: Andromeda?
Just to put this into perspective. Using the low end estimate of stars in our galaxy 100 billion (100,000,000,000). By TNG the Federation had charted 19% of the galaxy. That's 19 billion stars. But that is just charted not necessarily explored. We know that by TNG there are 150 member planets in the federation. Assuming that is one planet per star system. That means that only .00000015% of the stars in the galaxy are host to Federation member worlds. In Kirk's era presumably humans were on an estimated 1000 worlds and spreading out. Again assuming one planet per star, that could boost our number up to .000001% of the stars in the galaxy have human influence.
But how much of the galaxy have humans (or the Federation) actually explored? I'd estimate that the Federation could not have physically explored more than 1% of the galaxy by TNG's time.
So we have a sample size of 1% in which the majority of intelligent alien life is humanoid. We could certainly reason that the rest of the galaxy has a similar distribution of humanoids. But that's also a really small sample size. It's also entirely possible that we've only been exploring where there are pockets of humanoids.
In reality this debate is moot becasue if the show had the special effects budget they could/would depict more non-humanoids. I doubt anybody would be boycotting Star Trek becasue "'The Chase' proved that the majority of life in our galaxy is humanoid." "Stop showing non-humanoids!" "Make Trek Rubber Forehead Again!"
If they have the budget to depict 100% non-humanoid aliens in another galaxy, then they have the budget to depict 100% non-humanoid aliens here in this galaxy. Simply changing the setting to a distant galaxy is not going to grant them millions more into their special effects budget.
A: "Come on guys, our show takes place in another galaxy we've got to show non-humanoids."
B: "We've run out of budget for special effects."
A: "Oh look, our crew will discover some humanoids."
But how much of the galaxy have humans (or the Federation) actually explored? I'd estimate that the Federation could not have physically explored more than 1% of the galaxy by TNG's time.
So we have a sample size of 1% in which the majority of intelligent alien life is humanoid. We could certainly reason that the rest of the galaxy has a similar distribution of humanoids. But that's also a really small sample size. It's also entirely possible that we've only been exploring where there are pockets of humanoids.
In reality this debate is moot becasue if the show had the special effects budget they could/would depict more non-humanoids. I doubt anybody would be boycotting Star Trek becasue "'The Chase' proved that the majority of life in our galaxy is humanoid." "Stop showing non-humanoids!" "Make Trek Rubber Forehead Again!"
If they have the budget to depict 100% non-humanoid aliens in another galaxy, then they have the budget to depict 100% non-humanoid aliens here in this galaxy. Simply changing the setting to a distant galaxy is not going to grant them millions more into their special effects budget.
A: "Come on guys, our show takes place in another galaxy we've got to show non-humanoids."
B: "We've run out of budget for special effects."
A: "Oh look, our crew will discover some humanoids."
This. Because it would cost nothing to just introduce a third group that seeded humanoids -- this time outside the galaxy, or a throwaway line like 'looks the preservers/the chase aliens' had a longer reach than we previously thought!', or come up with any other lame-ass "explanation" while we are yet once again encountering humanoids.
I really don't see the difference between this concept and, say, Voyager. Except perhaps the 'desparately trying to get home' part.
No, we'd have to do something really different. I like the idea of fighting against a corrupt Federation. Let's say someone usurped all the power in the no-longer-democratic Federation. Our heros are from fringe worlds that yearn for the older, more egalitarian days and fight against him.
To prevent the corrupt and massive Federation (hmmm... doesn't sound evil enough, let's call it an Empire) from having such an overwhelming advantage that it would become implausible for our heroes to have even any remote chance at all, and also to spice things up a little bit, let's assume there is some mystical force that can offset technology and other numerical advantages, in which our heroes can be trained, and that shows itself in martial arts-like action scenes and ....
Oh. Right. Never mind.
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