Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)
- Thread starter Nedersong
- Start date
There are some elements in Star Trek that must be ignored. TCW is one.
VOY is another.
That is all.
VOY is another.
That is all.
Why should he be there? According to Memory Alpha, Khan was the absolute ruler of more than one-quarter of Earth's population from 1992 to 1996. Star Trek IV was set in 1986.
Again, why should it be there? According to Memory Alpha World War III lasted from 2026 through 2053.
Indeed, none of the half-assed "predictions" made in early Trek shows have been contradicted by other Trek shows, even though they have not come to pass in reality.
There's nothing to suggest, for example, that Khan didn't take over a bigger part of the world than Genghis fifteen years ago, or that humans didn't launch interstellar probes six years ago. Or that a guy named Henry Starling didn't basically single-handedly invent modern computing and then mysteriously disappear in 1996. Or that mastery of inertia and gravity wasn't part of the 1990s top technology.
Timo Saloniemi
There's nothing to suggest, for example, that Khan didn't take over a bigger part of the world than Genghis fifteen years ago, or that humans didn't launch interstellar probes six years ago. Or that a guy named Henry Starling didn't basically single-handedly invent modern computing and then mysteriously disappear in 1996. Or that mastery of inertia and gravity wasn't part of the 1990s top technology.
Timo Saloniemi
Maybe this is where the past was altered. Voyager arrives in 1996 in "Future's End" to find a relatively unaffected Los Angeles. Now, either Khan never got as far as the US or Starling's artificially rapid development of computing technology somehow prevented Khan and the other Augments from seizing power.
My guess is that Chronowerx hired some people (scientists) who would have otherwise worked on the Eugenics programme.
Or then Chronowerx was one of the major forces behind the eugenics project. And perhaps Khan was allies with California at the time, rather than enemies.
More probably, though, Khan was indeed enemies, and was in the process of being usurped that year - which meant he no longer had anything like global influence. And nothing indicates he ever had anything to do with the United States anyway.
And it was the year by the end of which Khan left Earth at the latest. What would we expect - headlines screaming "Eugenics Wars STILL over! Khan Singh suspected DEAD for the ninth successive month! Read all about the lack of conflict on page 65!"?
Timo Saloniemi
More probably, though, Khan was indeed enemies, and was in the process of being usurped that year - which meant he no longer had anything like global influence. And nothing indicates he ever had anything to do with the United States anyway.
And it was the year by the end of which Khan left Earth at the latest. What would we expect - headlines screaming "Eugenics Wars STILL over! Khan Singh suspected DEAD for the ninth successive month! Read all about the lack of conflict on page 65!"?
Timo Saloniemi
If he secretly controlled parts of India and China he could easily cover a quarter of the world's population, that is my favoured explanation for it.
It is possible what was left of his followers rose to power in Asia again in the "post atomic horror" - explaining the scenes from Farpoint.
The scenes where a white judge whose power stems from the guns of white soldiers entertains a white audience with a show that features two Asian-looking gong players? What do those scenes have to do with China or India?
I mean, if there was a black court bailiff in Matlock, would this indicate that there have been revolts spanning the entire United States and the power has moved to the hands of the African-Americans?
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, if there was a black court bailiff in Matlock, would this indicate that there have been revolts spanning the entire United States and the power has moved to the hands of the African-Americans?
Timo Saloniemi
Also, WWI and WWII both left the continental United States untouched, maybe the Eugenics War was the same.
Nah. I'd just like to see some reference to the Eugenics wars whenever they travel to the 1990s, such as some headlines, because if it was such a huge event then nobody would've been left untouched.
Now America may have sent troops to aid her allies, but that should've made huge headlines, such as the Iraq wars.
Now America may have sent troops to aid her allies, but that should've made huge headlines, such as the Iraq wars.
The judge was white because he was Q, a white guy when chatting to Picard and Co - and the guards being black, and the general architecture have always suggested far east to me - do you think it is supposed to portray the USA??
Ask me after November.
From Memory Alpha:
A model of a DY-100 appeared on a window sill of the office where Rain Robinson worked, at the Griffith Observatory in California in 1996. She also had a photograph of the launch of a DY-100 attached with tape to a cabinet. (VOY: "Future's End") A photograph of the same DY-100 launch was in the 602 Club, along with many other space achievements, like the NX-Alpha, the Phoenix, and USS Enterprise (XCV 330). (ENT: "First Flight")
Britain would actually be my guess, judging by the robes, the lion motif on the throne and so on. Black guards? I thought there were four - two young white fellers who get to shot to death an older white, red-bearded feller, plus one guy who does seem darker but whom I didn't remember being negroid.
What would "touched" mean? Twenty minutes of TV coverage per day is what we got out of Iraq, max. None of that showed on the streets. Headlines? On what papers? The ones covering Braxton?
Granted, Neelix does that channel-surfing thing and misses blatant examples of Khan Singh portraits or scenes of supermen in superfights, but odds are that he'd (we'd) have missed 9/11 on 9/12 on such a brief search.
Timo Saloniemi
I would not guess Britain from that (being British I might add). It does not carry a flavour of Britain to me, and the guards uniforms looks very much like the armour of Genghis Khan's army to me.
It is of course possible that Q was bringing up a slightly unfair example and that the kangaroo court as depicted was quite common one way or another in the aftermath of WW3 all over, Q just liked the style of the example he chose!
Presumably while society recovered communities got smaller and even self-sustained, and while some like Zefram Cochrane's had sufficient resources to build a spaceship, others started to degenerate to an almost medieval state.
well if one ignores the part about whole populations being bombed out of existance.
and as pointed out above the interstellar space program as projected in tos is far more advanced then the reality out there.
as to when things changed.
perhaps the death of the vagrant in the alley, or the cop who wondered about the odd encounter with someone who claimed to be the victim of rice picker.
and as pointed out above the interstellar space program as projected in tos is far more advanced then the reality out there.
as to when things changed.
perhaps the death of the vagrant in the alley, or the cop who wondered about the odd encounter with someone who claimed to be the victim of rice picker.
Sorry about carrying on, but this "Asiatic court" thing is another pet peeve of mine...
Perhaps. But Q, who could take or create any shape he wanted, put Caucasian men in those uniforms (save for the one black guy, that is). He also made himself Caucasian for a series of fantasy figures (post-renaissance European adventurer, American Cold War patriot, and then this judge figure), so that the first two in the series were plausible portrayals that suggest the third might have been historically accurate as well.
...But as Pookha says, it's a rather futile exercise when a couple of additional lines from "Space Seed" debunk the idea of a secret war. And it's not as if any Trek character would have claimed that the war was secret or otherwise obscure. The characters from the 1990s just don't mention the war a lot - which isn't such a strange thing when they ("they" essentially being limited to the cryofolks of "The Neutral Zone", Rain Robinson and Henry Starling) have more pressing concerns at the time.
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps. But Q, who could take or create any shape he wanted, put Caucasian men in those uniforms (save for the one black guy, that is). He also made himself Caucasian for a series of fantasy figures (post-renaissance European adventurer, American Cold War patriot, and then this judge figure), so that the first two in the series were plausible portrayals that suggest the third might have been historically accurate as well.
...But as Pookha says, it's a rather futile exercise when a couple of additional lines from "Space Seed" debunk the idea of a secret war. And it's not as if any Trek character would have claimed that the war was secret or otherwise obscure. The characters from the 1990s just don't mention the war a lot - which isn't such a strange thing when they ("they" essentially being limited to the cryofolks of "The Neutral Zone", Rain Robinson and Henry Starling) have more pressing concerns at the time.
Timo Saloniemi
Also, the VOY episode was trying to emulate REAL-LIFE 1996 as closely as possible. Meaning if they did show 1996 LA as some place going on about the Eugenics Wars the casual viewer would go "WTF are they going on about, there's no war on!" since they'd have no idea about the wars.
Apparently - I understand why, the idea that the Asians were a mess but the good old west came out the nuclear holocaust all shits and giggles is a bit daft.
Well Q never altered the colour of his skin, lets be fair Trek was never going down the Al Jolson road was it?
As for the court the mixture of Genghis guards, Robin Hood style peasants, a chap in robes and Ming The Merciless on the scrolls is so whacked anyhow it would be worth nuking the world to see how anyone could think it up!
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