'Trek Films: Your 'guilty pleasure'?

[sonak]

There are no more significant plot holes in Generations than there are in any other Trek movie, and actually LESS than in the other ones with time travel.

The character set-ups don't match the payoff and the entire story falls apart as a result.

Kirk's setup: He can't stand a quiet retirement; what he really longs for is to be back in the action. If only there were some way to get what his heart truly wants.

Kirk's payoff: He's now in the Nexus, which gives him what he really wants, and what his heart truly desires is... a quiet retirement? Huh?

Picard's setup: He's pondering the life he sacrificed, the family he forsake, the fact that there will be no more Picards.

Picard's payoff: He gets a family in the Nexus, the life he never had. But he very quickly leaves it behind and goes off to convince Kirk to go back with him, to makes difference, to get back in the action... which is what we were told Kirk wanted at the beginning of the film and so shouldn't require convincing.

The way each character was set up, it should have been just the opposite. Each character was given the other character's payoff. It should have been Kirk trying to convince Picard to go back. Obviously, the writers want their main hero to take the active role, but then if that's the case the writers needed to rewrite the setups instead of changing gears in the middle of the script and writing a totally different story. You can get away with a lot of stupidity in movies as long as the payoff matches the setup.

The sad thing is that I feel "Generations" had the most potential of all the TNG films.

Well that's actually a much fairer criticism than the silly "plot holes" one. I guess I could see it as their "road not travelled" fantasies where each is based on doing something far different than the path they took was.

You're right though, that whereas Picard's fantasy is at least based on his mindset before he enters the Nexus, Kirk's is sort of out of nowhere, and it's the opposite of what he was thinking about before entering.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Not really out of nowhere...they gave him that beat at the beginning where he's wondering when Sulu found the time to have a family.

Not sure if it qualifies in the spirit intended, but my guilty pleasure among the Trek films is TMP. I dig it for what it is, but could never recommend it to a casual viewer. TFF, INS, and NEM? I think they're as crappy as most others seem to.

 

[Hober Mallow]

You're right though, that whereas Picard's fantasy is at least based on his mindset before he enters the Nexus, Kirk's is sort of out of nowhere, and it's the opposite of what he was thinking about before entering.

Not really out of nowhere...they gave him that beat at the beginning where he's wondering when Sulu found the time to have a family.

Hmmm... you're right. It's like they couldn't decide on which story to tell, so they ended up telling both. Or maybe Moore and Braga were each telling two separate stories and didn't realize it.

 

[sonak]

Not really out of nowhere...they gave him that beat at the beginning where he's wondering when Sulu found the time to have a family.

Not sure if it qualifies in the spirit intended, but my guilty pleasure among the Trek films is TMP. I dig it for what it is, but could never recommend it to a casual viewer. TFF, INS, and NEM? I think they're as crappy as most others seem to.

yeah I forgot about that line, and Scotty asking if he was finding retirement "a wee bit lonely." Still though, the larger character theme of the opening ENT-B sequence is Kirk's frustration with retirement and desire for the captain's chair, not wishing he'd settled down. I guess the "road not taken" fantasy still works, though.

 

[Commishsleer]

Not really out of nowhere...they gave him that beat at the beginning where he's wondering when Sulu found the time to have a family.

Not sure if it qualifies in the spirit intended, but my guilty pleasure among the Trek films is TMP. I dig it for what it is, but could never recommend it to a casual viewer. TFF, INS, and NEM? I think they're as crappy as most others seem to.

yeah I forgot about that line, and Scotty asking if he was finding retirement "a wee bit lonely." Still though, the larger character theme of the opening ENT-B sequence is Kirk's frustration with retirement and desire for the captain's chair, not wishing he'd settled down. I guess the "road not taken" fantasy still works, though.

Perhaps the Nexus gives your ironic fantasy. The live you wish you lived and then once you lived it - you found you didn't like it.

I always thought Picard and Kirk liked being Starfleet Captains. In fact fought to be them.
I thought they would have been permitted to retire and settle down any time they wanted to.

I thought that the Nexus fulfilled your greatest fantasy not your greatest regret. Now if they said their greatest fantasy at the time you entered then maybe I accept Picard's but Kirk definitely looked more like he wanted the Captain's seat on the ENT-B than a daughter like Sulu.

 

[jimbotron]

Insurrection is my guilty pleasure. It's big and dumb, and the core idea was stupid. After all that's happened in Trek, they find a literal fountain of youth that will save billions, but refuse to use it because they don't want to inconvenience hundreds, and it isn't even their natural habitat, plus they could continue to take part in its benefits along with the billions, so what's the harm? Doesn't matter, because the location shooting is nice, and Goldsmith continues to deliver.

Why I like Insurrection? It's the only TNG movie that doesn't take a dump on canon. It's its own thing that doesn't mess up anything that came before it. There's nothing in it that pisses me off, because it's too lazy to bother. Generations did a lot of damage, First Contact screwed with what the Borg were, and Nemesis had a hack screenwriter and a hack director who didn't care about Trek.

It's the only movie that feels like an episode. One of the lesser two-parters, like Birthright.

 

[RAMA]

I don't have a guilty pleasure with ST movies. I watch them all equally on that level, or in the case of STV, I never watch it.

 

[Cyke101]

Not really out of nowhere...they gave him that beat at the beginning where he's wondering when Sulu found the time to have a family.

Not sure if it qualifies in the spirit intended, but my guilty pleasure among the Trek films is TMP. I dig it for what it is, but could never recommend it to a casual viewer. TFF, INS, and NEM? I think they're as crappy as most others seem to.

yeah I forgot about that line, and Scotty asking if he was finding retirement "a wee bit lonely." Still though, the larger character theme of the opening ENT-B sequence is Kirk's frustration with retirement and desire for the captain's chair, not wishing he'd settled down. I guess the "road not taken" fantasy still works, though.

Perhaps the Nexus gives your ironic fantasy. The live you wish you lived and then once you lived it - you found you didn't like it.

That's a cosmic phenomenon that's almost on par with the Twilight Zone. THAT would be a great Trek movie

 

[Hober Mallow]

I don't have a guilty pleasure with ST movies. I watch them all equally on that level, or in the case of STV, I never watch it.

That's like me, except that in addition to never watching TFF, I also never watch TSFS, TVH, TUC, GEN, FC, Insurrection, Nemesis, or any of the Abrams films.

 

[JarodRussell]

You dislike every Trek movie produced within the last THIRTY years?

 

[The Old Mixer]

yeah I forgot about that line, and Scotty asking if he was finding retirement "a wee bit lonely." Still though, the larger character theme of the opening ENT-B sequence is Kirk's frustration with retirement and desire for the captain's chair, not wishing he'd settled down. I guess the "road not taken" fantasy still works, though.

Perhaps the Nexus gives your ironic fantasy. The live you wish you lived and then once you lived it - you found you didn't like it.

That's a cosmic phenomenon that's almost on par with the Twilight Zone. THAT would be a great Trek movie

"But Captain Kirk...this is the other place...."

 

[2takesfrakes]

There aren't enough films to really have too many "guilty pleasures" with, anyway. Most of my STAR TREK Guilty Pleasures are - you guessed it - on the television side of town. For example, "The Outrageous Okona." The episode itself isn't so hot, but ... I tell ya! Not only does he have an eye for the Smokin' Hotties, but he gets them, too - Hand ... Over ... Fist!

 

[jimbotron]

Speaking of episodes, I don't get the hate for The Royale. I find it fun and enjoyable. Fans should live a little.

 

[AgentCoop]

Speaking of episodes, I don't get the hate for The Royale. I find it fun and enjoyable. Fans should live a little.

Oh, man, I love "The Royale"! Very cool episode!

 

[Yanks]

I guess a "guilty pleasure" for me would be the loooooooooooong Enterprise reveal in TMP.

Gives me chills to this day.

 

[Hober Mallow]

You dislike every Trek movie produced within the last THIRTY years?

Pretty much. I used to watch them when I was young, but I don't really care if I ever see any of them again. Most of them aren't that good. I may watch TMP and TWOK again sometime, but that's about it. The last Trek film I really loved was TUC -- saw it three times in the theater -- but it hasn't really aged well for me.

Nemesis and ID remain the only two Trek films I've only seen once and I've no wish to ever see again. (I've seen Insurrection about three times, and 09 twice, only because my wife wanted to see it on DVD).

 

[maneth]

Nemesis for me... It's a very entertaining movie, I certainly enjoyed it a lot, in spite of a rather hackneyed plot and a silly villain.

 

[Vger23]

Probably Nemesis. I thought about TFF, but I actually really like that film, so it's not really a "guilty pleasure".

Nemesis, as craptastic a movie as it may be, is still entertaining to me on some levels. I dig the action and explosions. Haha!

Generations would be a close second.