Trek Fans and Change

[fireproof78]

I mentioned warmth and optimism.

I guess I see those elements in Discovery, if only faintly.

Hmm . . . I see that many Trek fans will be regarding "DISCOVERY" in the same manner it has regarded "VOYAGER".

It probably won't last that long, unfortunately.

 

[Commishsleer]

People were hating on Discovery for various reasons before they'd seen it just like they did ST09.

I think a lot (not all) hate it just because its not Bergman Trek. Thats OK. Its a valid reason. But you gotta own it.

You know I would really like Seasoin 4 & 5 of TOS to be made but thats not going to happen. Just as Season 8 & 9 of TNG isn't going to happen.

And for all you who praise Orville as having adventure, fun, humour, warmth, optimism, whatever - I think these were often lacking in DS9 and VOY. I don't think any series of Trek was giving me a sense of wonder after just two episodes.

 

[fireproof78]

nd for all you who praise Orville as having adventure, fun, humour, warmth, optimism, whatever - I think these were often lacking in DS9 and VOY. I don't think any series of Trek was giving me a sense of wonder after just two episodes.

This is a great point. A lot of the arguments are see are based upon feelings, which, honestly are quite subjective, and that same feeling could be said to not exist in DS9. I certainly didn't get the same feel from TOS to TNG, or even TNG to TMP. That's why I struggle with the lamenting that something doesn't "feel" like Star Trek. I'm not sure what "Star Trek" feels like, beyond my own personal enjoyment of the series.

 

[MacLeod]

These two tropes come to mind

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsTheSameNowItSucks

It's hard to judge Discovery based on two episodes, and I would hardly say any TNG, DSN, VOY or ENT had the first couple of episodes which were representive of they res[ective series.

Take VOY and ENT (esp S1-2 of ENT) were seen by some fans as retreating of old ideas, to those whos introduction to the franchise those two shows were might see it differently.

Take SGU for example which came in for a fair bit of critism (some of it deserved) because it was a radical deapture of what came before i.e SG-1 and SGA, but had SGU been similar in tone to it's sister shows I suspect we might have had critisim along the lines of they aren't doing anything new, it's just what we had before.

I haven't seen the Orville yet as Fox (UK) hasn't decided to air it yet.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I think fans were optimistic, or at least curious about Enterprise when it first aired, then it turned out to be a disappointment.

Same thing with the TNG movies. There was a lot of potential ideas, and bigger budget, and they botched them badly.

When I first watched Enterprise, I managed for about half an hour before I couldn't watch it anymore--I changed channels. It wasn't a preconceived bias, I was bored out of my mind, I couldn't watch it anymore! lol. After that I leafed through a few episodes but could never watch an entire episode and just stopped watching entirely.

Discovery? I'm trying to get used to it visually-- it's a hard watch, and I mean literally. The lighting is so dim anything that happens doesn't have much impact, because you can barely see it.

Some of the writing, the Klingons, the pacing of the show--to be honest, it doesn't feel like Trek. And the borrowing from Kelvin movie is obvious.

But--I did watch both of the entire episodes, which for me is a good sign. It has some charm to it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

 

[Armus]

I agree that the strong opinions come mainly from love and passion. When you love something so much, you want it to be the best it can be. Of course, we all have different ideas of what the best looks like.
At the end of the day, we need to remember it's just entertainment. (Not to belittle entertainment or its ability to inspire, teach, and influence opinion.)

Well said. At the end of the day, not to dismiss the creative effort involved, it's also about making money and pleasing the shareholders.

 

[Jayson1]

This is NOT to get everyone shouting and angrymad. This is a genuine thought about the state of fandom...that's all.

I think Star Trek fans struggle badly with change (Capt. Obvious making a log entry right there). But, I don't think it's inherently because most Trek fans are inflexible, narrow, spiteful and joyless folks. Here's my theory:

Entertainment is largely for escapist purposes. Subconsciously (and consciously for that matter), that's what we are looking for when we go to a play, concert, or turn on the tube. But...the passion of Trek fans makes watching Star Trek, especially new Star Trek, a painful and stressful process. People care so much, that they are analyzing everything. Nitpicking everything. Having unrealistic expectations of everything. Eventually disliking / hating everything.

It's no longer escapist fun when this is your position. It's like "I have a meeting with a customer in 2 hours and don't have my shit together" stressful for people, and it kills any of the joy or ability to be objective / unbiased. We literally care too much to enjoy something we are supposed to love.

Now people will deny this and argue with me I'm sure (once again, supplemental log entry by Cap. Obvious)...but I have to say that I base this on:

1. People who dislike DSC generally get a massive thrill by throwing their love of "The Orville" in everyone's face while they rub poop all over the screen about now awful DSC is in the same post. Ok, whatever good for you. But, look me in the eye and tell me that if "The Orville" had been called "Star Trek: Orville" and characters were working for the UFP in Starfleet and wearing the delta badge on their uniforms, fans would be going frigging batcrap crazy right now. Fart jokes, colon jokes, weed jokes, sex jokes, unprofessional behavior..."THIS ISN'T GENE'S STAR TREK!!!! ARRrrrrhhghghghgh" But, since its not our sacred franchise...it all gets a pass. "No big deal, it's fun!" Interesting....

2. The scrutiny and standards that I've seen recent Star Trek productions held to would, if applied to other movies or television shows, absolutely bury most of those shows. Heck, the standards we apply to DSC and to the Kelvin films would bury half the prior Trek franchise itself, if not more! But no..Star Trek doesn't get a pass there because it's the sacred franchise....!

I wonder sincerely if we have lost the ability to view the franchise as the very thing we need (and the very thing Trek is intended to be): escapist entertainment. And, as a result of our stress/anxiety caused by our high level of expectations and standards...we end up resenting it because it does the exact opposite to us. It becomes the exact opposite of escapist.

To me nitpicking and complaining is actually a good thing because it means that people still care and in many cases the nitpicking and talking about the shows in detail is part of the fun. Complaining about the show being Prime or reboot is not all that different than asking if you liked KIrk over Picard or many of the other fan type of questions. People are not going to like or dislike the show just because of what universe it is set in. If they like what they see they will justify it in anyway they want.

Jason