Transfer to Excelsior?

[IrritatingGameOfChess]

How would you have felt if, in Star Trek IV, the crew ended up being assigned to the Excelsior rather than a new Enterprise? Would your enjoyment of the two subsequent films have been lessened by the crew being stationed on a ship other than the Enterprise?

I don't think the general audience would have cared that much, considering how ST IV was the highest grossing Trek film and featured the crew aboard a captured Bird of Prey!

 

[Ward Fowler]

Good question. Two things. First,if they did transfer to Excelsior, the ship would have to have been renamed Enterprise. Casual fans knew three things. Kirk, Spock, and Enterprise. Second, in my opinion the Constitution class vessel was a more elegant and, dare I say, more attractive design than than the Excelsior. So if they did transfer to the Excelsior, it would have needed a "refit" in order to make look less awkward. However, in the end, I imagine the decision came down to giving the fans what they want. While change can sometimes be a good thing, I think the producers and writers made the correct decision.

 

[IrritatingGameOfChess]

Good question. Two things. First,if they did transfer to Excelsior, the ship would have to have been renamed Enterprise. Casual fans knew three things. Kirk, Spock, and Enterprise. Second, in my opinion the Constitution class vessel was a more elegant and, dare I say, more attractive design than than the Excelsior. So if they did transfer to the Excelsior, it would have needed a "refit" in order to make look less awkward. However, in the end, I imagine the decision came down to giving the fans what they want. While change can sometimes be a good thing, I think the producers and writers made the correct decision.

That's an interesting perspective. I didn't consider that the name recognition of the Enterprise would matter to casual viewers.

DC Comics had the crew aboard the Excelsior in their comics line between Treks III and IV, and the ship retained its name. Maybe that's the only commercial tie-in product that featured Kirk indentifying himself as the commander of anything other than the Enterprise!

 

[apenpaap]

It would've certainly improved the looks of star trek V and VI, if they had dumped that ugly Constitution-class design. They would indeed have had to rename the ship to Enterprise for marketing reasons.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It would've certainly improved the looks of star trek V and VI, if they had dumped that ugly Constitution-class design. They would indeed have had to rename the ship to Enterprise for marketing reasons.

Ugly is in the eyes of the beholder.

Fans and reviewers of ST III called Excelsior "the pregnant guppy". The model was built by ILM to be lighter, smaller in scale, easier to make internal repairs, and with multiple mounting ports, compared to the huge Enterprise model that had been made for TMP.

ILM and Paramount really did intend for the Excelsior model to be the new ship featured in any future movies - it would have made their job easier - but the payoff at the end of ST IV needed some nostalgia value, so the old TMP Enterprise got its "A" designation.

 

[miraclefan]

It certainly would have made more sense haveing them on a (EXCELSIOR-Class) with that whole ''NEW E-A'' in crappy condition plot from ST-V!

 

[IrritatingGameOfChess]

It would've certainly improved the looks of star trek V and VI, if they had dumped that ugly Constitution-class design. They would indeed have had to rename the ship to Enterprise for marketing reasons.

Ugly is in the eyes of the beholder.

Fans and reviewers of ST III called Excelsior "the pregnant guppy". The model was built by ILM to be lighter, smaller in scale, easier to make internal repairs, and with multiple mounting ports, compared to the huge Enterprise model that had been made for TMP.

ILM and Paramount really did intend for the Excelsior model to be the new ship featured in any future movies - it would have made their job easier - but the payoff at the end of ST IV needed some nostalgia value, so the old TMP Enterprise got its "A" designation.

Perhaps I'm in the minority... I like the designs of both the refit Enterprise and the Excelsior.

It certainly would have made more sense haveing them on a (EXCELSIOR-Class) with that whole ''NEW E-A'' in crappy condition plot from ST-V!

I agree! From a practical and dramatic standpoint, it certainly would have made more sense.

 

[Ronald Held]

Then what would have been Harriman's ship been in Generations

 

[apenpaap]

Then what would have been Harriman's ship been in Generations

Well, they could've done that on the Excelsior (or any other ship).

 

[Gojira]

It certainly would have made more sense haveing them on a (EXCELSIOR-Class) with that whole ''NEW E-A'' in crappy condition plot from ST-V!

I agree. I think they should have gone with a new excelsior class Enterprise at the end of Star Trek IV. The excelsior class is a favorite design of mine.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Then what would have been Harriman's ship been in Generations

Well, they could've done that on the Excelsior (or any other ship).

More likely, there would have been a totally different ship of a new design depicted as the Enterprise-B on the conference room wall of the Enterprise-D. That's fine with me anyway; the Excelsior-class was sort of the weak link in the design evolution from the TOS ship and refit/-A to the -C and -D.

 

[arch101]

They should have gone to an Excelsior class Enterprise at the end of TVH. I was SURE that was going to happen when I saw the film in it's first run and was actually disappointed when the old style ship emerged from behind the Excelsior. It was time to move on.

 

[Myasishchev]

Excelsior is the greatest Fed starship design in Trek. I'd have been thrilled. I don't see why it had to be the NX-2000 herself, but rather NCC-2001 (renamed NCC-1701-A I guess).

 

[Joker]

Excelsior was an ugly piece of shit.

Glad they didn't use it.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I don't see why it had to be the NX-2000 herself, but rather NCC-2001 (renamed NCC-1701-A I guess).

It was still an experimental starship at that point, so the NX-2000 was the only one available.

 

[Red Ranger]

I would have been fine with them using the Excelsior and renaming it Enterprise-A. Wouldn't that have been a fitting reward for the command crew who saved Earth, giving them Starfleet's fastest ship? Obviously that would have left Sulu out in the cold, but perhaps they would've given him command of a Constitution-class starship, with a different name, when he ascended to the captaincy for TUC. In GEN, though, what would the Enterprise-B look like?

I do want to point out a ST cliche, though. We've now seen three ship's captains get replacement ships with the same name: Kirk (Enterprise and Enterprise-A), Picard (Enterprise-D and Enterprise-E) and Sisko (two Defiants). It would've been nice if they broke the mold with, say, Sisko, and have them keep the name Sao Paulo. In one of the Lost Years novels, Kirk was eager to take over command of another ship called the Victorious, before being promoted to Admiral. That makes more sense and would be more realistic, so why not take command of Excelsior?

Red Ranger

 

[Timo]

It was still an experimental starship at that point, so the NX-2000 was the only one available.

One might use two arguments against this. First, even if transwarp drive was considered experimental, Starfleet felt confident enough with it that NX-2000 was completed as a full starship with all the expensive armament, research gear and whatnot in place - not as a barebones test rig. Such confidence would nicely match the idea that several Excelsiors were built simultaneously from the outset.

Second, we could watch ST4 with a critical eye and decide that the various angles of the "powerless" Excelsior class vessel within Spacedock cannot be of one and the same ship, because the orientations don't match. There would have been at least two ships of the class within Spacedock in ST4, then - a plausible development after the class was introduced in the previous movie.

I agree that it would have been fun to have the crew move over to a new starship, and one that wasn't the Enterprise any more. But the name Excelsior might have been too pompous for the purpose. Indeed, apparently the whole NX-2000 had been designed for the dramatic purpose of being as pompous as possible, so that her downfall in ST3 would be all the more satisfying. Would a move from "hero ship" to "incompetent buffoon of a villain ship" really be dramatically desirable?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Praetor]

I have always felt the resolution of TVH was something of a dramatic cop-out. They basically revert the crew to the TOS status quo after taking them (particularly Kirk) through all of the character development beyond that in the first three films. I feel that the only moment of 'redemption' at the end of TVH should have been for Kirk - he gets his command back like he wanted all along (even though it seems like his personal losses would have logically muddled this 'achievement' quite a bit) but most if not all of the rest of the crew, while pardoned, is ordered to new assignments aboard other ships. (They were all captains and commanders for heaven's sake.) Indeed, this scenario might have made for a much more interesting TFF and also forced a more compelling reason for the crew to come together aboard the A for that mission, and also have allowed a more nostalgic TUC.

Anyway, I digress. I therefore feel that giving Kirk the Excelsior would have been something of a vast improvement - a bigger and better ship. And the logistical superiority of the model has of course already been pointed out - lighter and easier to handle. I am of cousre an ardent Excelsior fan - I've never understood the dislike for it. At all.

I feel that in this scenario the Excelsior would have to be renamed Enterprise. In fact, I see no reason why it couldn't have been U.S.S. Enterprise, NCC-2000. However, I'd have been fine with making it the Enterprise-A. As others have pointed out, the Enterprise-B could have then become a different intermediary design.

I agree that it would have been fun to have the crew move over to a new starship, and one that wasn't the Enterprise any more. But the name Excelsior might have been too pompous for the purpose. Indeed, apparently the whole NX-2000 had been designed for the dramatic purpose of being as pompous as possible, so that her downfall in ST3 would be all the more satisfying. Would a move from "hero ship" to "incompetent buffoon of a villain ship" really be dramatically desirable?

This is really what I believe set up the Excelsior for failure as a replacement. We were actually made to root against her. They may have designed her as a suitable replacement for the Enterprise, but they depicted her as the bitch of space.

 

[Ronald Held]

Since he was being punished to an extent, why give him an Excelsior clas ship?

 

[Praetor]

Eh, a valid point. The Excelsior bashers might say you just answered your own question.

In fact, maybe being assigned to a repro of his old ship with his old crew was the Federation's idea of equitable punishment?