T'Pau's Wife

[ZapBrannigan]

In all of these years, I have never even considered her to be the ruler/leader/President of Vulcan. I thought she was some type of ritualistic/spiritual leader and important in terms of Sarek's circle of influence. I assumed the "all of Vulcan" comment was concerning her personality, control, etc, that she embodies all of the stereotypes / heart and soul of Vulcan culture in one package.

I never even thought of that. Instead of being a big wheel in politics, T'Pau could have been more like Jerry Falwell and Joel Osteen. She could be the pastor of a megachurch with huge reach and influence in society. But it's not really a church, and the "religion" is Vulcan logic.

 

[Commishsleer]

In all of these years, I have never even considered her to be the ruler/leader/President of Vulcan. I thought she was some type of ritualistic/spiritual leader and important in terms of Sarek's circle of incluence. I assumed the "all of Vulcan" comment was concerning her personality, control, etc, that she embodies all of the stereotypes / heart and soul of Vulcan culture in one package.

I agree is like saying that "Joe Biden" is all America wrapped up in one package or "Donald Trump" or "Barrack Obama".
I agree that I thought she was more of a spiritual leader from the episode dialog. Otherwise I think she would have been introduced as Vulcan's leader. However perhaps Vulcan does not have a leader and like Earth has many leaders. Also I don't think the ruler of Vulcan would be on the "Federation Council" because I think turning that position down would affect the alliance within the Federation and not be just a throwaway line from Kirk.
O wait I think I'm looking into this too much. LOL

 

[Neopeius]

Would you be making such a stink about this topic if T’Pau was a guy?

Seems like you’re just trying to make some kind of point with flimsy evidence that T’Pau is gay (your ‘evidence’ of a photo caption is dubious at best, since in that same book there is a device listed as a ‘ray gun’ which wasn’t anything of the sort.)

It was used as a beacon in "Squire of Gothos" -- we don't know what else it's used for (a beam that can reach orbit is probably powerful enough to be used as an "offensive/defensive" weapon. Notably, Franz Josef lists it in the Technical Manual.

Is that what you’re implying? Because that wasn’t remotely implied in the episode she was featured in.

Well, neither was her being straight...

So any kind of ‘progressiveness’ that you’re trying to push here is of your own making, for your own purposes. And trying to hide behind ‘people are taking my post too seriously’ is a pretty flimsy excuse to justify whatever your agenda here is.

"Lighten up, Francis."

 

[Dukhat]

It was used as a beacon in "Squire of Gothos" -- we don't know what else it's used for (a beam that can reach orbit is probably powerful enough to be used as an "offensive/defensive" weapon. Notably, Franz Josef lists it in the Technical Manual.

And he got his information about the ‘ray gun’ from that book. Still doesn’t make it correct.

Well, neither was her being straight...

Her sexual preference wasn’t an issue AT ALL, until you made it an issue.

"Lighten up, Francis."

“Don’t get smart, Tiny.”

 

[Warped9]

Well, neither was her being straight...

Context. In the 1960s no one was going to even suggest someone was gay on primetime television. So unless it was explicitly esrablished or even hinted at then it goes without saying the character is meant to be straight.

That goes for Sulu as well. Despite Takei known as being gay to those who worked with him there was never even a hint in all of TOS that Sulu was anything other than straight.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It was used as a beacon in "Squire of Gothos" -- we don't know what else it's used for (a beam that can reach orbit is probably powerful enough to be used as an "offensive/defensive" weapon. Notably, Franz Josef lists it in the Technical Manual.."

Kirk used it as a soldering gun in "The Doomsday Machine." It's clearly a very adjustable tool, a Swiss Army knife. But neither screen use was a weapon, so that's one point against The Making of Star Trek photo captions. But that book is still as close to canon as unaired material can possibly be.

That goes for Sulu as well. Despite Takei known as being gay to those who worked with him there was never even a hint in all of TOS that Sulu was anything other than straight.

Takei was very unhappy about it when they made JJ-Sulu gay. He said he had played the character as a straight guy. It didn't matter, of course, because Takei doesn't own Sulu.

 

[Ronald Held]

As a former leader, T'Pau would still wield considerable influence.

 

[alchemist]

FWIW, in every script draft, T'Pau is described as

An "Elder", a great force in the land.

 

[Neopeius]

Context. In the 1960s no one was going to even suggest someone was gay on primetime television. So unless it was explicitly esrablished or even hinted at then it goes without saying the character is meant to be straight.

"My tastes include both oysters and snails."

-

"We've never thought of each other that way."

"No, of course you didn't. But who's to say I didn't? I never felt that way about anybody but you. I've never loved a man. I never knew why before."

-

I get what you're saying. BUT, don't fall into the assumption that gay people suddenly sprang into existence in 1970.

 

[Neopeius]

Her sexual preference wasn’t an issue AT ALL, until you made it an issue.

Correction: until Nimoy's album.

Your outrage over my silly post amuses me to no end. Well, there is an end because I have to get back to work.

 

[Dukhat]

Correction: until Nimoy's album.

You mean your flawed interpretation of Nimoy’s album.

Your outrage over my silly post amuses me to no end. Well, there is an end because I have to get back to work.

Try not to quit your day job and get into the interpretation business. It doesn’t suit you.

 

[Maurice]

FWIW, in every script draft, T'Pau is described as

An "Elder", a great force in the land.

Exactly. Even as a kid I never interpreted the dialog about her as meaning she ran Vulcan, just that she was a big big deal.

 

[fireproof78]

She turned down a seat on the Federation Council -- I would guess that body is a representative one, and it makes sense that the representative would be the current or prior leader of a planet.

That doesn't track very well at all, even with what thin information we have on Vulcan and Federation governance. That's like saying that because the prime minister of Canada is a leader of Canada they must also be on the UN Security Council. Or that the president of the United States must also have a seat in Congress. It assumes a lot.

So, yes, it's never explicitly said in the show that T'Pau is Vulcan's leader. But I think it'd take a lot of fingers in the ears and nannie-nannie-boo-boo to say she can't be.

Ok, but when was she the leader? We lack enough context to form a full opinion. Anything else is, well, fan speculation.

 

[Neopeius]

Ok, but when was she the leader? We lack enough context to form a full opinion. Anything else is, well, fan speculation.

Ya don't say!

 

[fireproof78]

Ya don't say!

Exactly. Even as a kid I never interpreted the dialog about her as meaning she ran Vulcan, just that she was a big big deal.

Same here.

 

[Neopeius]

 

[Kor]

Anyway... I don't think that members of the Federation Council are (necessarily) the heads of state of their respective planets. As loathe as I am to bring later Trek into discussions of TOS, when possible Bajoran membership in the Federation was being discussed in DS9, it was mentioned that Federation Council members would have to be chosen. It wasn't a given that the leader of the planet would be on the Council. Drawing from certain real-world parallels, Council members could possibly tend to be the equivalent of Secretaries of State or Ministers of Foreign Affairs of their respective worlds. Jonathan Archer was a Federation Council member. We don't know a lot about his career between retiring from the Starfleet Admiralty and later joining the Council; just that he was Ambassador to Andoria. So apparently ambassadorship is a possible step to becoming a Council Member.

Kor

 

[Neopeius]

Anyway... I don't think that members of the Federation Council are (necessarily) the heads of state of their respective planets. As loathe as I am to bring later Trek into discussions of TOS, when possible Bajoran membership in the Federation was being discussed in DS9, it was mentioned that Federation Council members would have to be chosen. It wasn't a given that the leader of the planet would be on the Council. Drawing from certain real-world parallels, Council members could possibly tend to be the equivalent of Secretaries of State or Ministers of Foreign Affairs of their respective worlds. Jonathan Archer was a Federation Council member. We don't know a lot about his career between retiring from the Starfleet Admiralty and later joining the Council; just that he was Ambassador to Andoria. So apparently ambassadorship is a possible step to becoming a Council Member.

Kor

"Loath" ("Loathe" is a verb, "loath" is an adjective )

Of course you're right. I think it makes sense that T'Pau was a former leader of Vulcan rather than a current one. If she looks old in "Amok Time", then she's had lots of time to serve a term.

 

[fireproof78]

Anyway... I don't think that members of the Federation Council are (necessarily) the heads of state of their respective planets.

I would agree. I think the idea behind T'Pau is she was highly respected, possibly a former leader, with still considerable power within Vulcan politics. But, the episode gives little hints beyond that.

 

[UssGlenn]

I agree is like saying that "Joe Biden" is all America wrapped up in one package or "Donald Trump" or "Barrack Obama".

Now I'm curious who actually could be described as "All America wrapped up in one package".