TOS/Trek XI question!

[Sovay]

I didn't know whether to post this here or in the TOS board, but here goes, I will try not to put spoilers but I assume everyone knows the basics (alternate timeline, etc)

My question is this, the alternate timeline that was created mainly had an effect on earth and Kirk's upbringing, and I cannot figure out what effect it could possibly have had on Vulcan BEFORE Spock left for the academy. In the TOS episode Amok Time it's made clear that Spock was betrothed to T'Pring in childhood (less than a marriage, more than a betrothal,) to be reunited at some point in the future. The movie, however, kinda ignores this and pairs Spock up, as we know.
Will there be an angry T'Pring in a few movies time?

 

[starbuck]

We dont know how the timeline effected the rest of
The United Federation of Planets ,but things have changed for the klingons too.

 

[SonicRanger]

I didn't know whether to post this here or in the TOS board, but here goes, I will try not to put spoilers but I assume everyone knows the basics (alternate timeline, etc)

My question is this, the alternate timeline that was created mainly had an effect on earth and Kirk's upbringing, and I cannot figure out what effect it could possibly have had on Vulcan BEFORE Spock left for the academy. In the TOS episode Amok Time it's made clear that Spock was betrothed to T'Pring in childhood (less than a marriage, more than a betrothal,) to be reunited at some point in the future. The movie, however, kinda ignores this and pairs Spock up, as we know.

Will there be an angry T'Pring in a few movies time?

It is possible that Sarek's ambassador assignments changed as a result of the catastrophic attack on the Kelvin by a massive starship that eventually was learned to be a Romulan vessel. Or perhaps something different happened in T'Pring's life or the lives of her parents. There are many possibilities left to our imaginations.

 

[Cakes488]

I didn't know whether to post this here or in the TOS board, but here goes, I will try not to put spoilers but I assume everyone knows the basics (alternate timeline, etc)

My question is this, the alternate timeline that was created mainly had an effect on earth and Kirk's upbringing, and I cannot figure out what effect it could possibly have had on Vulcan BEFORE Spock left for the academy. In the TOS episode Amok Time it's made clear that Spock was betrothed to T'Pring in childhood (less than a marriage, more than a betrothal,) to be reunited at some point in the future. The movie, however, kinda ignores this and pairs Spock up, as we know.
Will there be an angry T'Pring in a few movies time?

No because T'pring is dead. Not sure how I know this...I just do .

You mention Kirk & Spock's upbringing...I would of liked to have seen more of young Kirk...a lot of time was devoted to Spock...it was completely lopsided in that respect.

 

[Indegato]

It can be excused with the Butterfly effect, where the slightest change in the timeline will change everything in existance.

 

[Classic Fan]

Or they wanted to tell a new story that was different, and besides, a logical vulcan in a relationship with a passionate female human is more interesting than two pointy eared bastards.

 

[Sovay]

It can be excused with the Butterfly effect, where the slightest change in the timeline will change everything in existance.

That's what my husband said! That the Romulan attack could have created even minuscule differences in the lives of T'Pring's parents or Spock's. I suppose part of me wonders why he wasn't betrothed to someone else, and I guess also the relationship with Uhura is just weird...

 

[pookha]

the ceremony sure didnt seem to keep trping from hooking up with stonn as we see in amok time.
also remember until pon farr hit spock had hoped to be spared the whole thing.

i dont think he had any intention of ever going back to see tpring if the pon farr had not over taken him.

 

[nx1701g]

I hope they don't go that route because Enterprise already did it. T'Pol picked her Vulcan husband instead of Trip (to help her mother, but she still picked him over Trip).

 

[Valin]

It can be excused with the Butterfly effect, where the slightest change in the timeline will change everything in existance.

That's what my husband said! That the Romulan attack could have created even minuscule differences in the lives of T'Pring's parents or Spock's. I suppose part of me wonders why he wasn't betrothed to someone else, and I guess also the relationship with Uhura is just weird...

The ceremony didn't stop TOS Spock from having some kind of relationship with Leila Kalomi in his past.

 

[DevilEyes]

the ceremony sure didnt seem to keep trping from hooking up with stonn as we see in amok time.
also remember until pon farr hit spock had hoped to be spared the whole thing.

i dont think he had any intention of ever going back to see tpring if the pon farr had not over taken him.

It can be excused with the Butterfly effect, where the slightest change in the timeline will change everything in existance.

That's what my husband said! That the Romulan attack could have created even minuscule differences in the lives of T'Pring's parents or Spock's. I suppose part of me wonders why he wasn't betrothed to someone else, and I guess also the relationship with Uhura is just weird...

The ceremony didn't stop TOS Spock from having some kind of relationship with Leila Kalomi in his past.

Exactly.

I don't get this complaint - apparently, it should be completely impossible for Spock to have a relationship, because of an arranged marriage/engagement when he was 7, to someone he has never had any sort of relationship with and hasn't even seen since they were children?... While he is living among humans and has been for years, far away from Vulcan and his parents, let alone the 'bethroted', apparently without any intention of even coming back?

 

[Cky]

Well, the whole thing before Spock enters Starfleet I guess could be canon. Of course when it leads up to his assignment on the Enterprise, everything changes (for him).

 

[JustKate]

Since we are never told the extent of the damage done by the Romulan vessel, it's certainly possible that lots of stuff changed that we aren't told about. For example, did every single person escape from the Kelvin except Kirk and Robau? Doesn't seem likely.

But I think the answer, assuming we want one more satisfying than "The writers don't want to bother with that whole T'Pring thing, so that's gone," is that the moment the Romulan ship entered the movie timeline, stuff changed. Lots of stuff. What stuff, we don't know. And since we actually have no idea what effect a gigantic ship from the future would have on a timeline, I personally have no big problem with assuming that effect might be profound or suble or something in between or a mix of all of these. So why not the disappearance of one betrothal?

 

[Therin of Andor]

In the TOS episode Amok Time it's made clear that Spock was betrothed to T'Pring in childhood (less than a marriage, more than a betrothal,) to be reunited at some point in the future.

Don't forget that original timeline Spock has had other female interests, such as Leila Kalomi, a relationship rekindled in "This Side of Paradise" (TOS).

He states in "Amok Time" that he thought pon farr had actually eluded him, due to his dual heritage - and maybe he thought, through most of his early years, that he'd never by called back to Vulcan to reunite with T'Pring. Certainly, she had taken up with Stonn, so she was able to have relationships despite the mental bond with Spock.

 

[mary2000]

Ok, seeing that this was an alternate realty. I am still reeling from what I saw and heard and interpret from alternate and original timelines.

Alternate reality observations: Seeing that Vulcan is destroyed, Spock's mum Amanda died, Kirk and Chekov at SFA during the same era. It wasa decade between the times they were there and in age. Uhura orders a Cardassian drink in the 2260s at that pub in Iowa when Kirk hits on her. I don't believe the Federations and the Cardassians knew the existance of each other until a little less than a century later. The mention of Adm.Archer by Scotty of poor Porthos in the transporter accident. I don't think Archer or Porthos would be in the century club in this era. Again, alternate timeline and then Archer would have to be in his 50s and Porthos would be a mid-aged dog.

If I heard this right, when the stardate was mentioned, they said the actual year in it. According to Spock, who has been on Romulus since TNG episode "Reunification", in 2387 he attempted to try and save Romulus from destruction from a black hole. he failed. Romulus is destroyed. Nero and the Narada are looking for Spock. I take it they must be from a few years later into the future? Say, from the 2390s? Does this all happen in the original timeline? If so, with Romulus out of the picture, that would change the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant between the Federation, the Klingons, the Vulcans, and the Cardassians. This would be about a decade after the Dominion War

[Solicitation links removed]

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't believe the Federations and the Cardassians knew the existance of each other until a little less than a century later.

That was never said canonically, and who knows, Cardassians might be called Cardassians because they come from an area of space the UFP called Cardassia?

The DS9 episode "Destiny" contained a reference to a Cardassian poet living in exile on Vulcan and meeting Tobin Dax there, at some time prior to 2245. Iloja of Prim's exact time period has not been established. He had to be alive sometime before 2245 by which time Emony Dax carried the Dax symbiont. As both were on Vulcan during this time period this indicates that both Trill and Cardassians were known to the Federation before 2245.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=94029
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Iloja_of_Prim

The mention of Adm.Archer by Scotty of poor Porthos in the transporter accident.

It was never said it was Porthos. It might be Porthos XXIV.

I don't think Archer or Porthos would be in the century club in this era.

According to a Starfleet computer screen in ENT's "Mirror Universe" episodes, our Archer saw the launch of the Constitution class USS Enterprise - and died the next day of old age.

After the founding of the Federation, Archer went on to serve in the Federation Starfleet. At his retirement from Starfleet, he was Chief of Staff at Starfleet Command with the rank of admiral. Archer became an honorary member of the Andorian Imperial Guard in 2164, Federation ambassador to Andoria in 2169, a representative on the Federation Council in 2175, and ultimately President of the United Federation of Planets in 2184, where he served for eight years. (ENT: "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II")
For the biographical display seen in "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II", writer Mike Sussman wrote a final section of text that didn't end up being visible on screen, stating that Archer "...died at his home in upstate New York in the year 2245, exactly one day after attending the christening ceremony of the first Federation starship Enterprise, NCC-1701". Note that Sussman himself has said this information might not be canon.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Archer

I take it they must be from a few years later into the future? Say, from the 2390s? Does this all happen in the original timeline?

Read the "Countdown" omnibus. Spock has been a resident of Romulus for 20 years, ie. since "Unification". A typo in the original issue #1 comic said 40 years (and misspelt Romulus in a few places).

If so, with Romulus out of the picture, that would change the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant between the Federation, the Klingons, the Vulcans, and the Cardassians.

And I'm sure the novels will incorporate that, but they have about six years of stories before they get there.

 

[theenglish]

The easiest thing to do is simply forget everything you know about Star Trek before watching this movie and enjoy it for what it is. To me it is very obvious that the people making this version chose to ignore or were ignorant about a number of details of Trek Canon and then tried to write an explanation for why things could be "different".

The movie would have been much more enjoyable for me if it had just been stated that this is a comlete reboot of the franchise.

 

[Therin of Andor]

To me it is very obvious that the people making this version chose to ignore or were ignorant about a number of details of Trek Canon and then tried to write an explanation for why things could be "different".

The people they were writing it for are totally ignorant of canon: the general public. And ST canon only ever mattered for the authors and editors preparing material to be included in licensed tie-in merchandise, such as original novels and comics.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

To me it is very obvious that the people making this version chose to ignore or were ignorant about a number of details of Trek Canon and then tried to write an explanation for why things could be "different".

The people they were writing it for are totally ignorant of canon: the general public. And ST canon only ever mattered for the authors and editors preparing material to be included in licensed tie-in merchandise, such as original novels and comics.

And some of the more obsessed fans.

 

[Therin of Andor]

And some of the more obsessed fans.

The whole point of Richard Arnold and Gene Roddenberry attempting to describe a "ST canon" was to stop obsessed fans demanding that the parent series be informed by plots, characters and tech being put into the licensed tie-ins.