Spoilers TOS: The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh Volume 1 By Greg Cox
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Due in no small part to the German editions. They allowed for a revival
. Or rather, they made it possible for some fans with insufficient English knowledge to read them in German. I can read in English of course, but the Khan novels were offered at exorbitant prices (a Ferengi would be proud of). My supply of Latinum was limited, though......
I have these already in a hardback collection but I will gladly get the ebook editions if you get a cut of the money.
I still g
Thanks, yes, and I still get royalties on those books. (That's how I know that the Q books are still the best earners of my older titles.)
Thanks, yes, and I still get royalties on those books. (That's how I know that the Q books are still the best earners of my older titles.)
For me, the key word is highlighted below:
But anyway, I'm of the school of thought that the Eugenics Wars were fought openly, and any gaps in our knowledge of them in the 23rd Century are due to the "fragmentary" records and entire populations being "bombed out of existence." YMMV.
The word "simultaneously" implies that this was a concerted and coordinated effort among a faction of the supermen/Augments. Perhaps even a faction that was working against Khan, considering that he'd already been in power for a year:
So were those 40 nations a part of the quarter of the world that Khan was already ruling? Or, if Khan was behind it, could this perhaps have been a grab for even more power on his part? There's a world of possibilities in just those few short sentences.
But anyway, I'm of the school of thought that the Eugenics Wars were fought openly, and any gaps in our knowledge of them in the 23rd Century are due to the "fragmentary" records and entire populations being "bombed out of existence." YMMV.
That post reminds me of the one thing about the duology that did bug me, JonnyQuest. I'm okay with the "Secret"-war style for it, but it's the framing story. We know that knowledge of the 20th century is so scant and so "fragmentary" that most of the crew didn't even recognize Khan until after a concerted research effort. So where in the world was Kirk getting these detailed records of the build-up to and goings-on of the Eugenics Wars that he was studying across the framing story for insight? The way he was reacting to specific details during the framing story, it heavily implied that everything we saw Kirk also read of, in full detail.
Wasn't it established at the end that Gary Seven had arranged to make that information available to Kirk?
Gary Seven showed up, but I don't remember that; at least, if that was the implication, I didn't get it. And if it was the implication, I would still think that Kirk would have questioned where the information came from in the first place at some point.
I'll admit that maybe it was supposed to be obvious that that was what happened and I just completely missed that, though.
I'll admit that maybe it was supposed to be obvious that that was what happened and I just completely missed that, though.
There was a reference to Kirk having access to Gary Seven's records.
I'm 113 pages into Vol. 2, and so far I'm enjoying it even more than Vol. 1.
There was a reference at one point to Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln dealing with a Ferengi infiltration of Wall Street. I want that story.
Are all of the other people who attended Khan's little Augment get together fictional?
I'll start up a review thread for Vol. 2 once I'm done.
I'm 113 pages into Vol. 2, and so far I'm enjoying it even more than Vol. 1.
There was a reference at one point to Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln dealing with a Ferengi infiltration of Wall Street. I want that story.
Are all of the other people who attended Khan's little Augment get together fictional?
I'll start up a review thread for Vol. 2 once I'm done.
Yeah, I think the sub's hull was made out of vibranium or something?
A grown up Hadji from Jonny Quest also showed up at a UN assembly, as I recall. As you can probably guess from my screename, I liked that one.
To give credit where it's due, the Hadji bit was my editor's idea . . ..
I remember being so excited about this book that I diverted precious pocket money away from Attack of the Clones tie-ins to buy it. 
(The wait for paperback editions on these was excruciating.) As a Trekkie kid coming right out of the nineties, the question was always "What about the Eugenics Wars?" There have been several interpretations since, but the combination of established 20th century Trek figures with real life history was just amazing.
I remember being particularly taken with the idea of all the time-travel castoffs ending up in Area 51, resulting in the creation of what was (by then) an anachronistically advanced spaceship. (That said, I was a little confused that there were definitely pictures and a model in Rain's office of a DY-100 in Voyager's "Future's End", which doesn't seem to jive with the notion that it was a top-secret ship. [Yeah, I know she also had a Talosian action figure, but I think a little more thought would have gone into the DY-100 set dressing.] I don't think that was addressed directly in the text, even though Rain shows up at some point--Greg, can you help me out here?)
Oooh, it would be neat to see...not exactly a revised version of these books specifically, but a deeper dive into this version of the Eugenics Wars. There was a lot of set-up for Khan and (what we would come to call) the Augments, which was important, and sci-fi spycraft, which was essential for the Gary Seven/Roberta Lincoln side of the story, but it was a little light on the 1992-1996 era of the Augments. Stavos Keniclius was left out entirely.
(I know that the animated series isn't always approved of or allowed for tie-ins, but these books had so many references to other franchises that his absence is even more notable.) There's Khan's super blood from ST:ID that could use a reasonable explanation, and the removable cryopods from that movie. (Okay, not a plot point, but the nitpicky side of me wants an explanation. 
) I think Christopher introduced the idea that these Eugenics Wars were another one of Future Guy's Temporal Cold War plots, which just makes so much sense. And I know Strange New Worlds did a bit with Archer's ancestor who fought in the wars (and Keniclius!), but a greater context for that particular conflict would be interesting too.
As much as I prefer the nineties-as-we-knew-it-compatible version of the Eugenics Wars, I get this. Especially the closer we get to the 2060s; the sillier it seems to try and make Trek's account of Earth's history match our own. (DS9's Past Tense is up in less than ten years, but that I'm kinda willing to give a pass to. Their use of bulky computer terminals and giant cell phones is kind of hilarious, and hopefully Sanctuary Districts won't come to pass. But the writers did a darn good job of anticipating exactly the kind of social and economic problems we're facing, whereas warp drive and alien contact in less than 50 years just isn't tenable in a franchise that will probably last at least that much longer.)
But part of the appeal of Star Trek is that it's our own future, and it's supposed to be a positive one, so I like having the Eugenics Wars in the rear view mirror as opposed to some kind of ever-moving-forward-but-inevitable Judgement Day ala Terminator, which is one option, or in having to impose a wildly different world order and technology level on the immediate past than actually existed, which would be the other. I think the Khan "Into Darkness" tie-in comic actually took the latter route, which was interesting but not particularly compatible with the Voyager and Enterprise episodes set in the late 90s/early aughts.
Of course, the elephant in the room at this point is World War III.
I'd just as soon the 2040s incarnation of Trek introduces a deliberate timeline change that eliminates a nuclear World War III as a historical certainty and maybe moves First Contact up a century or so. (I'd at least like to imagine a scenario in which I'm in my eighties and not appreciating the accuracy with which 20th century television writers anticipated a nuclear war in the mid 21st century! 
)
TC
(The wait for paperback editions on these was excruciating.) As a Trekkie kid coming right out of the nineties, the question was always "What about the Eugenics Wars?" There have been several interpretations since, but the combination of established 20th century Trek figures with real life history was just amazing.I remember being particularly taken with the idea of all the time-travel castoffs ending up in Area 51, resulting in the creation of what was (by then) an anachronistically advanced spaceship. (That said, I was a little confused that there were definitely pictures and a model in Rain's office of a DY-100 in Voyager's "Future's End", which doesn't seem to jive with the notion that it was a top-secret ship. [Yeah, I know she also had a Talosian action figure, but I think a little more thought would have gone into the DY-100 set dressing.] I don't think that was addressed directly in the text, even though Rain shows up at some point--Greg, can you help me out here?)
Oooh, it would be neat to see...not exactly a revised version of these books specifically, but a deeper dive into this version of the Eugenics Wars. There was a lot of set-up for Khan and (what we would come to call) the Augments, which was important, and sci-fi spycraft, which was essential for the Gary Seven/Roberta Lincoln side of the story, but it was a little light on the 1992-1996 era of the Augments. Stavos Keniclius was left out entirely.
(I know that the animated series isn't always approved of or allowed for tie-ins, but these books had so many references to other franchises that his absence is even more notable.) There's Khan's super blood from ST:ID that could use a reasonable explanation, and the removable cryopods from that movie. (Okay, not a plot point, but the nitpicky side of me wants an explanation. ) I think Christopher introduced the idea that these Eugenics Wars were another one of Future Guy's Temporal Cold War plots, which just makes so much sense. And I know Strange New Worlds did a bit with Archer's ancestor who fought in the wars (and Keniclius!), but a greater context for that particular conflict would be interesting too.As much as I prefer the nineties-as-we-knew-it-compatible version of the Eugenics Wars, I get this. Especially the closer we get to the 2060s; the sillier it seems to try and make Trek's account of Earth's history match our own. (DS9's Past Tense is up in less than ten years, but that I'm kinda willing to give a pass to. Their use of bulky computer terminals and giant cell phones is kind of hilarious, and hopefully Sanctuary Districts won't come to pass. But the writers did a darn good job of anticipating exactly the kind of social and economic problems we're facing, whereas warp drive and alien contact in less than 50 years just isn't tenable in a franchise that will probably last at least that much longer.)
But part of the appeal of Star Trek is that it's our own future, and it's supposed to be a positive one, so I like having the Eugenics Wars in the rear view mirror as opposed to some kind of ever-moving-forward-but-inevitable Judgement Day ala Terminator, which is one option, or in having to impose a wildly different world order and technology level on the immediate past than actually existed, which would be the other. I think the Khan "Into Darkness" tie-in comic actually took the latter route, which was interesting but not particularly compatible with the Voyager and Enterprise episodes set in the late 90s/early aughts.
Of course, the elephant in the room at this point is World War III.
I'd just as soon the 2040s incarnation of Trek introduces a deliberate timeline change that eliminates a nuclear World War III as a historical certainty and maybe moves First Contact up a century or so. (I'd at least like to imagine a scenario in which I'm in my eighties and not appreciating the accuracy with which 20th century television writers anticipated a nuclear war in the mid 21st century! )TC
I don't think this has actually been true for decades; not by the time Eugenics Wars was released, at least.
As for WW3, I really hope they don't remove it; one of the things I always loved about Trek's view on humanity is the fact that we got through such a thing and survived; that it wasn't painted as the beginning of the end for our species the way other sci fi universes might have done, but rather that it was a low point that we emerged from and became better for it. Though honestly the idea of Star Trek being specifically our future isn't part of the appeal for me at all, merely the idea that it's a future.
Yeah... This hasn't been true since the early '90s. The no-TAS policy was Richard Arnold's, and he was fired in 1991, the day after Roddenberry died. I'm amazed that this myth still persists in fandom after nearly a quarter of a century.
I still say the best thing for the franchise's future is to reboot it completely. Keep the core themes and ideas and characters (though not necessarily with the same genders or ethnicities), but revamp the timing and history and details and technology from the ground up, so that it isn't laden with all those outdated ideas from the '60s-'80s anymore. The more it clings to assumptions and tropes from the past, the more it will become just an exercise in nostalgia rather than something relevant to the present and addressing the future.
Repeat a lie for long enough and loudly enough...
I've never met Richard Arnold, but it seems that he had an unfortunate habit of treating his personal opinions and interpretations of Star Trek lore as being solid facts. It's become one of my big fanboy pet peeves.
I definitely see your point. It's not that I'd prefer a nuclear WWIII be written out because it's a low point for humanity in the franchise--the notion that things get worse but they get better too is something I'm a fan of also. I'd just prefer that the future low point better reflect present-day concerns, and the kind of mutually assured destruction of WWIII isn't as ever present a threat as it was in the 60s and 80s. But I can see where that wouldn't matter as much if drawing a line from our present-day to Trek isn't something you look for.
*Shrugs* I probably worded that comment badly; I was trying to account for various possible author attitudes towards including material from the animated series in addition to any formal/informal editorial policies that I have no firsthand knowledge of. My real question would probably be something more along the lines of "Dude, there's a reference to Sonny Clemonds in the Eugenics Wars novels but nothing about Stavos Keniclius? What gives?", but that just sounds obnoxious, don't you think?
I think it'll happen at some point (and indeed has happened to some degree already, though we're still well short of a full reboot). Of course, this hypothetical future iteration of Trek will no doubt be seen as being full of outdated ideas and tropes from whenever it was made eventually.
TC
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