TOS Rewatch

[CorporalCaptain]

Despite your lack of fondness for the warp-cubed formula, it certainly comes up a lot! However, that doesn't the fact that the system was invented long after the series began and with little regard for what came before.

The cube formula is used in the STAR TREK WRITERS/DIRECTORS GUIDE, third revision (April 17, 1967), page 8. It describes the formula is "geometric" (which is technically incorrect; the correct term is "polynomial"), and it gives warp 1 as one times c, warp 2 as 8 times c, warp 3 as 24 times c (which is incorrect, as it should be 27 times c, the same error occurs in TMoST p. 191), and warp 4 as 64 times c.

So, the cube formula was created no later than four days after the first season had finished airing.

 

[JRTStarlight]

Despite your lack of fondness for the warp-cubed formula, it certainly comes up a lot! However, that doesn't the fact that the system was invented long after the series began and with little regard for what came before.

It's not a fondness for it so much as the general belief others have retroactively determined this was the most likely to fit for most episodes, or be in the ball park of intended speeds, even if the actual math was done after 1st season. So I tend to assume it, yeah. And I tend to assume most departures from it are most likely the result of writers who didn't understand or couldn't be bothered to check what was supposed to be the case for possible speeds of the ship.

For myself, I would rather look at the episodes themselves and see what patterns present themselves than trying to impose an arbitrary formula that holds no commonality with the series. In fact, I would be surprised to find ANY episodes from TOS that conform to the WF^3 formula.

And if you indeed would rather do that, have you? I mean, how many episodes are there that one can actually calculate the ship's own speed (not counting alien interference)? And how well do they agree with one another? I don't mind the intent of using fictional empirical data – in fact I like it – but I've never made the Herculean effort to comb through every TOS script, reference actual astronomical data and distances wherever possible, and determine such things. Nor do I pay much attention to star dates. Instead, I tend to think the intended speeds were the cube-warp factor and can rather easily note when they are spot on, or are just close enough, or are wildly off base. In any event, doing that also notes the Trek inconsistencies in such things.

FWIW, the WF^5 works pretty well with TOS but is way out of line with TNG and so must be discarded if we are to consider both part of the same universe. WF^4 doesn't seem a bad match for the ranges and speeds bandied around in TNG, DS9 and VOY, but I haven't studied that period fully.

It is a canon fact, I believe, that TOS and TNG use a different Warp scale - they deliberately changed it. If you are getting good empirical data from TOS that strongly suggests WF^4 or WF^5 is a good fit for most episodes, I'd be more than glad to look at the tables compiled that show each episode where the calculations could be made for warp speeds, and how well they fit any proposed formulas. But I bet you can always find more than few episodes in each series that just won't fit very well at all.

It’s understandable to want a perfectly consistent and clearly understandable fictional universe, but that’s not what we were given. One of the reasons behind Star Trek’s longevity is that the focus is on compelling stories and relatable characters, with just enough hints of the technological wonders underlying it all. Joining the dots to create a fuller picture is something left to the fans, even if that picture differs from the smaller ones envisioned by the individual writers. If a fan created theory drawn from inferences across several episodes can be applied equally well to others, I would say that’s a big differences from citing “a wizard did it” to each inconsistency discovered.

The focus on all that NEVER requires one ignore the details, so suggesting getting the details wrong is unimportant may be true for those who don't, or never would care, about the details, but not true for those who do, and more importantly, getting the details right should in no way adversely affect the enjoyment of those who don't care the details are right or wrong but just wish to look at the main story. To satisfy both groups, get the details the right.

If some liberty one takes to explain something in one story has zero bearing on other stories, that's probably fine and it should be done, but if it could affect other stories, past or future, it is a major tweak of the universal laws of that universe and a much greater liberty to take.

That’s certainly one solution – but if you’re going to treat Trek as “broad strokes only” then why worry about inconsistencies on anything?

Getting the details right for those who don't care shouldn't bother them, but for those who do, it will bother them. So not getting them right is usually just sloppy, careless, or indifferent writing, or worse, somebody who knows what they are saying is wrong, but doesn't care or relies on the likely fact 95+% of the audience won't know the difference anyway, so why work one iota harder? Lazy bastards.

Again, we don’t have a lot of information about how much down-time and regular maintenance warp engines require. However, we do have Picard tell us this in The Chase:

Voyager had better tech, some of it self-healing. It was faster tech, too. Doubtless it would take considerable time to do maintenance or wait for the ship to heal, but I bet it would take 1701-D more time. Regardless, it was never an option to do a straight shot from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant in one go, and the 75 year best estimate of optimal travel time just shows the shortest time, given nothing but innate warp capabilities of the Voyager and ignoring the other things. In actual fact, it would more likely take 200 to 400 years. But by using other means, Janeway did it in 7 years, just under the wire when her crewmembers could have legally been declared dead. Ha ha! So she saved the life of everyone on board. To Captain Janeway.

If just a few days of darting in-between star systems requires repairs, what damage would belting it across the Delta Quadrant at top speed do?

Don't know the specs well enough on a self-healing ship with bio gel packs. It would be near impossible to do the maintenance that requires a starbase, of course. But I'm not sure if they could just avoid the affected areas of the ship and do with less living space, or whatever befalls one if they are lax on the maintenance schedule and don't change their oil every 50,000 light years.

Not at all – warp 7 was explicitly only requested (and granted by Scotty) after Kirk had “helped” Shahna a couple of times AND after McCoy’s statement that they had travelled a dozen light years. IOW, very near the end of the trip.

If so, and you may well be right, then the change in speed did virtually nothing for them.

SPOCK: Warp factor 7, NOW.

Navigator: We're here!

SPOCK: Full stop.

Scotty: Whew, more than those two minutes and I might have complained again.

They may or may not have been travelling Warp 6 for the majority of the rest of the journey, but given Scotty’s reluctance to help Spock, I doubt it.

Scotty follows orders. He might grouse about it, but he always follows orders.

Actually, Arena is pretty much the first example we have where it is laid out that Warp 6 is standard pursuit speed, Warp 7 involves pushing the engines hard and things get dicey at Warp 8 (complete with dramatic music cue!) This system of what constitutes safe and unsafe speeds is pretty much adhered to throughout the rest of the series, although there is a little creeping up the scale towards the end of Season 3 (either that or Spock just doesn’t care any more).

I did note the creep factor, but couldn't say how often they seemed to be working as if their warp tech had simply improved in the last two years.

We don’t really know too much about Han Solo or his motivations, but I prefer to think that he is the “captain” in name only, with Chewbacca being the real brains behind the operation and nudging his (hot-shot dog fighting) friend in the right direction.

Wookie lover. I hadn't considered that since Chewy does seem quite subordinate to most anything Han says. I suspect Han might rely a little too much on computers to think, but he was even telling Chewy how to fix things. No no, not that, this one, there (or some such). Fortunately, it's not that important.

Fast? In the TNG era “Full Impulse” is 0.25c, so the Beagle was just crawling along, comparatively.

Full impulse for a starship, maybe. And it might be tempting to think that's all impulse and the warp engines aren't even running, but with warp factors like 0.5, I assume while impulse can achieve such speeds sans warp drive, they normally use warp engines even for speeds less than c, lest they burn up far more quickly their limited impulse fuel.

Possibly, but that would be some significant meteor damage!

I'm not suggesting the meteoroid imparted those velocities, but yeah, they had significant meteoroid damage. They said so.

It seems clear that the intention was the wreckage was the sole remains of the SS Beagle

Spock makes many mistakes or erroneous assumptions. Destroyed could mean whatever damaged it badly enough to account for that debris, but the intention obviously was the ship survived and was repairable, if only they could obtain the iridium ore, or whatever they needed. But they ran afoul of Marcus Maximus Paranoidus.

What happened to the rest of the SS Beagle is anyone's guess. Kirk didn't seem overly concerned about the whereabout of its remains or its tech that may have fallen into Space Roman hands.

 

[Mytran]

The cube formula is used in the STAR TREK WRITERS/DIRECTORS GUIDE, third revision (April 17, 1967), page 8. It describes the formula is "geometric" (which is technically incorrect; the correct term is "polynomial"), and it gives warp 1 as one times c, warp 2 as 8 times c, warp 3 as 24 times c (which is incorrect, as it should be 27 times c, the same error occurs in TMoST p. 191), and warp 4 as 64 times c.
So, the cube formula was created no later than four days after the first season had finished airing.

Thanks for confirming the date it was introdued - I had a feeling it was some time around Season Two. So as I said, the WF^3 formula was indeed instituted long after the series began. During that prior season several significant time distances had all been firmly established in stories, like a trip to the edge of the galaxy, Miri's planet being "hundreds" of LY from Earth and Trelane's world at 900 LY, not to mention covering 22 parsecs while chasing a Gorn ship. Really, they ought to have stuck closer to Gene's original series pitch which suggested that the ship's maximum velocity was 0.73 light years per hour. The entire pitch is reproduced here http://leethomson.myzen.co.uk/Star_Trek/1_Original_Series/Star_Trek_Pitch.pdf
This is an extract from page 9:

Excerpted from orders to Captain Robert M. April:
_________________________________________________________________
III. You are therefore posted, effective immediately, to command the following: The S.S. YORKTOWN
Cruiser Class -- Gross 190,000 tons.
Crew Compliment -- 203 persons
Drive -- space-warp. (maximum velocity .73 of one light-year per hour)
Range -- 18 years at galaxy patrol speeds
Registry -- Earth, United Space Ship

IV. Nature and duration of command:
Galaxy exploration and Class M investigation: 5 years


V. You will patrol the ninth quadrant, beginning with Alpha Centuri and extending to outer Pinial Galaxy limit.

VI. You will conduct this patrol to accomplish primarily:
(a) Earth security, via exploration of intelligence and social systems capable of galaxial threat, and
(b) Scientific investigation to add to the Earth's body of knowledge of alien life forms and social systems, and
(c) Any required assistance to the several Earth colonies in your quadrant, and the enforcement of appropriate statues affecting such Federated commerce vessels and traders as you may contact in the course of your mission.

VII. Consistent with the equipment and limitations of your cruiser class vessel, you will confine your landings and contacts to Class "M" planets approximating Earth-Mars conditions, life and social orders.

It is a curious coincidence that 0.73 LY/hour (6,400c) equates to approximately Warp 8.94 on the WF^4 scale.

It's not a fondness for it so much as the general belief others have retroactively determined this was the most likely to fit for most episodes, or be in the ball park of intended speeds, even if the actual math was done after 1st season. So I tend to assume it, yeah. And I tend to assume most departures from it are most likely the result of writers who didn't understand or couldn't be bothered to check what was supposed to be the case for possible speeds of the ship.

As I showed with my response to CorporalCaptain above, it's a bit more complicated than that

...how many episodes are there that one can actually calculate the ship's own speed (not counting alien interference)? And how well do they agree with one another? I don't mind the intent of using fictional empirical data – in fact I like it – but I've never made the Herculean effort to comb through every TOS script, reference actual astronomical data and distances wherever possible, and determine such things.

I would have thought that reviewing the episodes one at a time would be a prime opportunity for that .

Instead, I tend to think the intended speeds were the cube-warp factor and can rather easily note when they are spot on, or are just close enough

Given the small number of examples we have to work with in TOS, I would be surprised if there were any times that the WF^3 formula could be applied with confidence. Most of the times speed and distance are mentioned they violate the WF^3 rule outright.

It is a canon fact, I believe, that TOS and TNG use a different Warp scale - they deliberately changed it. If you are getting good empirical data from TOS that strongly suggests WF^4 or WF^5 is a good fit for most episodes, I'd be more than glad to look at the tables compiled that show each episode where the calculations could be made for warp speeds, and how well they fit any proposed formulas. But I bet you can always find more than few episodes in each series that just won't fit very well at all.

I and others have posted a lot in other threads in the past on this very subject; I'll see if I can gather the information together to better demonstrate these issues

The focus on all that NEVER requires one ignore the details, so suggesting getting the details wrong is unimportant may be true for those who don't, or never would care, about the details, but not true for those who do, and more importantly, getting the details right should in no way adversely affect the enjoyment of those who don't care the details are right or wrong but just wish to look at the main story. To satisfy both groups, get the details the right.

If some liberty one takes to explain something in one story has zero bearing on other stories, that's probably fine and it should be done, but if it could affect other stories, past or future, it is a major tweak of the universal laws of that universe and a much greater liberty to take.

But if we can construct an explanation that is applicable to numerous episodes and DOESN'T require that we change or outright ignore onscreen canon, isn't that a better approach? I know it would be better if the series were perfectly consistent and coherent from the off, but this is a TV Series made by mere mortals, after all.

Getting the details right for those who don't care shouldn't bother them, but for those who do, it will bother them. So not getting them right is usually just sloppy, careless, or indifferent writing, or worse, somebody who knows what they are saying is wrong, but doesn't care or relies on the likely fact 95+% of the audience won't know the difference anyway, so why work one iota harder? Lazy bastards.

Don't you enjoy Star Trek? If so, those bastards must have done something right!
Those bastards were often on a deadline too, don't forget. If the choice had to be made in getting every trivial piece of tech correct and telling a compelling story, I know what I'd choose. Well, what I'd like to choose an

Voyager had better tech, some of it self-healing. It was faster tech, too. Doubtless it would take considerable time to do maintenance or wait for the ship to heal, but I bet it would take 1701-D more time. Regardless, it was never an option to do a straight shot from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant in one go, and the 75 year best estimate of optimal travel time just shows the shortest time, given nothing but innate warp capabilities of the Voyager and ignoring the other things. In actual fact, it would more likely take 200 to 400 years. But by using other means, Janeway did it in 7 years, just under the wire when her crewmembers could have legally been declared dead. Ha ha! So she saved the life of everyone on board. To Captain Janeway.
...
Don't know the specs well enough on a self-healing ship with bio gel packs. It would be near impossible to do the maintenance that requires a starbase, of course. But I'm not sure if they could just avoid the affected areas of the ship and do with less living space, or whatever befalls one if they are lax on the maintenance schedule and don't change their oil every 50,000 light years.

Voyager had SELF HEALING tech on board? Well I suppose that's one answer to the reset button that seemed to get pressed on a very regular basis, but there's nothing on screen to support such a proposition. The bio-neural gel packs' abilities (according to the episode Caretaker) were to organise information more efficiently and speed up response time; nothing else. In fact, they are only mentioned in 9 episodes total and play a part in the story in just 5 of those. Aside from Voyager's "lift and separate" nacelles, it is a fairly standard ship, self healing is not part of the tool kit.

If so, and you may well be right, then the change in speed did virtually nothing for them.

SPOCK: Warp factor 7, NOW.
Navigator: We're here!
SPOCK: Full stop.
Scotty: Whew, more than those two minutes and I might have complained again.

Heh. Snark Trek sound like it would be worth a watch
Actually though, it might be for a bit more than the last 50 metres of the race. They set off from Gamma Two at Warp 2 but it's not until after Kirk's meal break that we return to our intrepid adventurers where it is revealed that system M two four alpha (AKA Triskelion) is 11.63 LY away. Scotty claims that it's "two dozen" light years away - he was probably rounding up for dramatic effect and may also be including the distance from Gamma Two (since that's how his mental map of the galaxy is laid out). So, maybe it's a total of 21 LY from Gamma Two to Triskelion? If so, it would explain McCoy's angry whinging that they'd gone "a dozen" light years off on some wild goose chase whilst still putting them far enough from Triskelion to justify the increase to Warp 7 for the final stretch.

Scotty follows orders. He might grouse about it, but he always follows orders.

Unless...it is his intention...to declare a mutiny???

Wookie lover. I hadn't considered that since Chewy does seem quite subordinate to most anything Han says. I suspect Han might rely a little too much on computers to think, but he was even telling Chewy how to fix things. No no, not that, this one, there (or some such). Fortunately, it's not that important.

I confess, much of my fondness for Chewie being the brains behind the operation was inspired by this article https://web.archive.org/web/20080105080042/www.morningstar.nildram.co.uk/A_New_Sith.html

Full impulse for a starship, maybe. And it might be tempting to think that's all impulse and the warp engines aren't even running, but with warp factors like 0.5, I assume while impulse can achieve such speeds sans warp drive, they normally use warp engines even for speeds less than c, lest they burn up far more quickly their limited impulse fuel.

Agreed that starship STL velocities should be superior to that of a merchant ship, but 0.0134c is barely more than 1/8 Impulse. Not an unrealistic speed.

I'm not suggesting the meteoroid imparted those velocities

Good. Was anyone?

What happened to the rest of the SS Beagle is anyone's guess. Kirk didn't seem overly concerned about the whereabout of its remains or its tech that may have fallen into Space Roman hands.

I think the general assumption of the crew is that is was destroyed, or otherwise collapsed while in orbit

 

[JRTStarlight]

I would have thought that reviewing the episodes one at a time would be a prime opportunity for that.

No, not a prime opportunity since many other aspects to review had higher priority. A project like that would take a dedicated intent to go through them one-by-one specifically looking for such data, and then outside references to look up or confirm data, like star distances, and calculations, etc. It is no small task, and quite removed from what I was mostly doing – mostly comparing TOS originals to the Remastered works. Also, commenting on the Trek universe, in general, things we might note about that future society, or social commentary on today, or other things of note.

Given the small number of examples we have to work with in TOS, I would be surprised if there were any times that the WF^3 formula could be applied with confidence. Most of the times speed and distance are mentioned they violate the WF^3 rule outright.

That was not my impression, and violations would tend to pull my focus more, but it wasn't the priority, and I didn't keep notes on it. Suffice it to say, IMO, they are inconsistent from episode to episode, and they could have done a better job there, and probably should have if they put a dedicated person on that job. Some science geek intern willing to do it for no money, for example, but the experience of working on a sci-fi show.

But if we can construct an explanation that is applicable to numerous episodes and DOESN'T require that we change or outright ignore onscreen canon, isn't that a better approach? I know it would be better if the series were perfectly consistent and coherent from the off, but this is a TV Series made by mere mortals, after all.

It's much harder to do that, and if you concoct such a plan that alters universal law, one should revisit every other episode to ensure it doesn't run afoul of those stories, like they should have used that law there but didn't (which made sense before since the law didn't exist, but would make no sense now, so that episode becomes flawed).

But in general, how many times do you see where this is even applicable? In That Which Survives, you may conclude a return along the original path is easier, but the strange absence of mentioning it sticks out, and suggesting the characters wouldn't talk of it or mention it since it old news to everybody is ridiculous. So that alone, failure to ever mention it in dialogue, works against you. Isn't that unrealistic, too? So correcting the numbers seems a better fix. I don't seriously think Kirk meant the sound amplifier magnified sounds by 1 to the 4th power just because that's what he said, for example. I don't mind changing it. And similarly I don't mind moving a decimal place or two if that helps. And why aren't they discussing my proposed changes? What's to discuss? We just assume they said it right. 1 x 10^4. Or the distance was different, etc.

Don't you enjoy Star Trek? If so, those bastards must have done something right!

I enjoy Trek, yes, but I'd enjoy it more if it were more consistent or they avoided some really stupid ideas. In fact, I've adopted the policy anyone should feel free to totally discount up to 5% of any Trek series episodes and pretend they never existed before judging the quality of any of the series. It helps.

For movies, unfortunately, it's not so simple. Like the Trek episodes, you either judge it good or bad, great or well below average, or whatever. I can't claim Abram's Trek movies are good because Star Trek in general is good. In fact, I have to say I really loath them and would have to judge them as really bad episodes of Trek by the standard I use to judge Trek episodes. They have their appeal and they look great on the big screen, but the stories are awful and badly contrived and ignore canon in ways that can't easily be explained or do things that would be problematic for the fictional universe if allowed to stand. It's bad stuff. And ignoring real science, or common sense never helps.

Those bastards were often on a deadline too, don't forget. If the choice had to be made in getting every trivial piece of tech correct and telling a compelling story, I know what I'd choose. Well, what I'd like to choose an . . .

Hey, I'm not saying they didn't have and overcome many problems, and we can't appreciate how well they did given those constraints, but we do have to look at the final product. That's part of the reason why I'm a big fan of the remastered works – they did more, as Gene would have if he had the time, the money, or the technology. And I'm not saying I could have done better, either, under those same conditions. I am saying I could have helped and would have if I had been there, but that assumes quite a bit, like I'd be appreciated and some other people wouldn't just assume I was interfering or ruining their work on general principle.

Voyager had SELF HEALING tech on board? Well I suppose that's one answer to the reset button that seemed to get pressed on a very regular basis, but there's nothing on screen to support such a proposition. The bio-neural gel packs' abilities (according to the episode Caretaker) were to organize information more efficiently and speed up response time; nothing else. In fact, they are only mentioned in 9 episodes total and play a part in the story in just 5 of those. Aside from Voyager's "lift and separate" nacelles, it is a fairly standard ship, self healing is not part of the tool kit.

If the bio-packs can catch a cold, they can heal. But if not, then since they can't be replicated, it makes little sense the Voyager could keep going as they failed and they ran out of replacements, and even if they had enough for 7 years, there is no way they'd have enough for 75, let alone 400. In general, though, these ships have to "heal" inasmuch as damaged sections are probably beamed away and rematerialized in the proper form. It only takes transporter and replicator tech and, of course, energy, all of which I still assume they can get in abundance while in close orbit about any star. It's getting or carrying energy between the stars that is the real trick.

So if the packs don't heal and you just heat them up to kill pathogens, I don't see why they don't have easy self-heating routines, or can't be swapped out for any one fresh out of the oven.

But I won't insist on it.

They set off from Gamma Two at Warp 2 but it's not until after Kirk's meal break that we return to our intrepid adventurers where it is revealed that system M two four alpha (AKA Triskelion) is 11.63 LY away. Scotty claims that it's "two dozen" light years away - he was probably rounding up for dramatic effect and may also be including the distance from Gamma Two (since that's how his mental map of the galaxy is laid out). So, maybe it's a total of 21 LY from Gamma Two to Triskelion? If so, it would explain McCoy's angry whinging that they'd gone "a dozen" light years off on some wild goose chase whilst still putting them far enough from Triskelion to justify the increase to Warp 7 for the final stretch.

Interesting – Scott was right – it is two dozen, but they had that conversation half way with another dozen to go? They might work. But such a fact – we don't even know if it is 12 or 24 Lys, makes warp calculations hard to claim any consistency with any formula when it's so easy to disagree on the basic data.

Unless...it is his intention...to declare a mutiny???

The cut scene from The Gamsters of Triskelion.

SCOTT: Doctor, I know how I'm going to influence him. They're my engines and I'm responsible for them.
MCCOY: I've been through this with Spock. He's not being scientific and neither are you.
SCOTT: It may not be scientific, but if Mister Spock thinks it happened, then it must be logical. But logic is often not enough, and logic and theories are not cold hard facts. It is a fact those engines will burn out if he keeps this up.
MCCOY: Don't you think I know that? My tests show there's nothing wrong with him. Now that's the only fact Starfleet's going to be interested in.
SCOTT: Headquarters has its problems, and we have ours. And right now, the first officer of the Enterprise is our problem. Let me put one last question. Suppose you stand with me, in favor of returning to Gamma Two. That means two votes to one and Spock has no senior officer support. The crew will lose faith in him. What do you think the Vulcan will do?
MCCOY: I don't know.
SCOTT: Aye, you know, all right. It'll stick in his craw. He'll never admit it but he won't accept it.
MCCOY: We don't know that.
SCOTT: I tell you, he won't. Then, Doctor, that's the time we move against him. We'll have to take over the ship.
MCCOY: We're talking about mutiny, Scotty.
SCOTT: Aye. Are you ready to complain again about his wild goose chase?
MCCOY: Yes. I'm ready. I like to complain about Spock to Spock. But what if he refuses to give in?
SCOTT: Unless he accuses us of mutiny, the crew will side with us.
MCCOY: You don't think he'd openly accuse us of mutiny, do you? Our reputations would be irreparably damaged.
SCOTT: He wouldn't do that. He has no proof, and we could ruin him when we show he made such an accusation without offer of proof. So it would not be logical.
MCCOY: What if he whispers it to us?
SCOTT: He's a Vulcan. They're not that devious.
MCCOY: He's half a human. And I did recently teach him poker.
SCOTT: Then we'd have to back down and pretend like the idea of taking over the ship and committing mutiny never really crossed our minds. But I don't think he's that crafty, Doctor.
MCCOY: All right. I'm ready. Let do this.

And now you know the rest of the story.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Day of the Dove

A hostage situation as a means to take over an entire ship? Seems rather far-fetched.

Those Klingons are incredibly easy to surprise and overwhelm. What was it that Kirk said which told Spock/Scotty what to do, though? I didn't hear it at all.

I thought Enterprise only had around 400 crew? How is basically the entire crew in a single area of the ship?

A fine collection of antiques indeed. But that is not even remotely a Claymore.

This episode is an interesting case for the Starfleet/Military argument. On the one hand, McCoy actively calls them all Military Men, and no one finds it strange. On the other hand, Kirk explicitly says 'We've been trained to think in other terms than war. We've been trained to fight its causes, if necessary."

It's a shame they didn't design some more 'klingon' style swords for this episode. Having the weapons be based more on each side's cultural history would've been cool.

Mara is really unbelievable as a Klingon. Even Uhura and Chapel have put up better fights in past episodes.

Klingons run off to fight off intruders in the hall, yet there are still Klingons standing around staring at Kang vs Kirk...

'Good Spirits' means angrily shouting at the creature? Shouldn't that make it stronger again? Fantastic, though, how a story all about peace and overcoming racism ends with someone shouting 'we need no encouragement to hate!'

Overall I thought this was a solid episode with a really interesting premise. I'd entirely forgotten that the creature actually was making everyone heal after they died and trying to turn the ship into a permanent smorgasbord. In that respect, it's actually a direct ancestor to VOY's The Killing Game, which was always one of my favorite episodes of that series. Of course, this one comes with the added element that this creature may have been responsible for historical wars - a real life space Ares, basically - which is a common concept in TOS, but definitely an interesting one.

 

[Commishsleer]

The cut scene from The Gamsters of Triskelion.

SCOTT: Doctor, I know how I'm going to influence him. They're my engines and I'm responsible for them.
MCCOY: I've been through this with Spock. He's not being scientific and neither are you.
SCOTT: It may not be scientific, but if Mister Spock thinks it happened, then it must be logical. But logic is often not enough, and logic and theories are not cold hard facts. It is a fact those engines will burn out if he keeps this up.
MCCOY: Don't you think I know that? My tests show there's nothing wrong with him. Now that's the only fact Starfleet's going to be interested in.
SCOTT: Headquarters has its problems, and we have ours. And right now, the first officer of the Enterprise is our problem. Let me put one last question. Suppose you stand with me, in favor of returning to Gamma Two. That means two votes to one and Spock has no senior officer support. The crew will lose faith in him. What do you think the Vulcan will do?
MCCOY: I don't know.
SCOTT: Aye, you know, all right. It'll stick in his craw. He'll never admit it but he won't accept it.
MCCOY: We don't know that.
SCOTT: I tell you, he won't. Then, Doctor, that's the time we move against him. We'll have to take over the ship.
MCCOY: We're talking about mutiny, Scotty.
SCOTT: Aye. Are you ready to complain again about his wild goose chase?
MCCOY: Yes. I'm ready. I like to complain about Spock to Spock. But what if he refuses to give in?
SCOTT: Unless he accuses us of mutiny, the crew will side with us.
MCCOY: You don't think he'd openly accuse us of mutiny, do you? Our reputations would be irreparably damaged.
SCOTT: He wouldn't do that. He has no proof, and we could ruin him when we show he made such an accusation without offer of proof. So it would not be logical.
MCCOY: What if he whispers it to us?
SCOTT: He's a Vulcan. They're not that devious.
MCCOY: He's half a human. And I did recently teach him poker.
SCOTT: Then we'd have to back down and pretend like the idea of taking over the ship and committing mutiny never really crossed our minds. But I don't think he's that crafty, Doctor.
MCCOY: All right. I'm ready. Let do this.

And now you know the rest of the story.

I'm glad this scene was cut.
Is that what officers do on navy ships if something happens to the captain? Surely they have to obey the XO as if he/she were the captain.
Why would the rest of the crew side with McCoy and Scott? Can't see anyone turning on Riker.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm glad this scene was cut.
Is that what officers do on navy ships if something happens to the captain? Surely they have to obey the XO as if he/she were the captain.
Why would the rest of the crew side with McCoy and Scott? Can't see anyone turning on Riker.

That's a real scene, seriously?!? I don't think so. It's a pastiche of "Turnabout Intruder."

 

[Mytran]

Yeah, but it's a funny one

As resistant as I am in having TOS scenes be rewritten, I wouldn't object if we also get funny little "deleted" scenes like this in the mix

 

[JRTStarlight]

I'm glad this scene was cut.
Is that what officers do on navy ships if something happens to the captain? Surely they have to obey the XO as if he/she were the captain.

Obviously they wouldn't do that. But then I wouldn't think officers would so openly complain about Spock's decisions, or not see the logic in them, or the futility of continuing to try again what they had already tried several times before and failed – which is almost the definition of insanity. It's so bad, it's artificial drama and it shows, IMO.

Why would the rest of the crew side with McCoy and Scott?

Why would the crew not side with Spock? It's implied there is still a degree of racism in Starfleet, the suspicious connection Vulcans have to the Romulans, the unemotional detachment with which they might logically sacrifice your life, or other things as left overs from Balance of Terror, The Galileo Seven, or other general instances of just not liking or trusting those subhuman, green blooded hobgoblin-like Vulcans and their inhuman ways. If Scott and McCoy both sided against him, enough of the crew might join them. Or so the joke implied.

Can't see anyone turning on Riker.

Riker was bigger and physically more imposing, not to mention a practitioner of The Ultimate Evolution Of The Martial Arts! Hahahahaahah hah haha.

That's a real scene, seriously?!? I don't think so. It's a pastiche of "Turnabout Intruder."

Yeah, but it's a funny one
As resistant as I am in having TOS scenes be rewritten, I wouldn't object if we also get funny little "deleted" scenes like this in the mix

Yeah, seriously, every Trek fan should recognize that as mostly a reworking of Turnabout Intruder, making it even more obvious I'm joking, and of course as a joke they should know it was never a real or intended scene that just got cut. I was just having a little fun.

 

[JRTStarlight]

Day of the Dove

A hostage situation as a means to take over an entire ship? Seems rather far-fetched.

Those Klingons are incredibly easy to surprise and overwhelm. What was it that Kirk said which told Spock/Scotty what to do, though? I didn't hear it at all.

I thought Enterprise only had around 400 crew? How is basically the entire crew in a single area of the ship?

A fine collection of antiques indeed. But that is not even remotely a Claymore.

This episode is an interesting case for the Starfleet/Military argument. On the one hand, McCoy actively calls them all Military Men, and no one finds it strange. On the other hand, Kirk explicitly says 'We've been trained to think in other terms than war. We've been trained to fight its causes, if necessary."

It's a shame they didn't design some more 'klingon' style swords for this episode. Having the weapons be based more on each side's cultural history would've been cool.

Mara is really unbelievable as a Klingon. Even Uhura and Chapel have put up better fights in past episodes.

Klingons run off to fight off intruders in the hall, yet there are still Klingons standing around staring at Kang vs. Kirk...

'Good Spirits' means angrily shouting at the creature? Shouldn't that make it stronger again? Fantastic, though, how a story all about peace and overcoming racism ends with someone shouting 'we need no encouragement to hate!'

Overall I thought this was a solid episode with a really interesting premise. I'd entirely forgotten that the creature actually was making everyone heal after they died and trying to turn the ship into a permanent smorgasbord. In that respect, it's actually a direct ancestor to VOY's The Killing Game, which was always one of my favorite episodes of that series. Of course, this one comes with the added element that this creature may have been responsible for historical wars - a real life space Ares, basically - which is a common concept in TOS, but definitely an interesting one.

Kirk secretly pushed a button on his communicator, signaling a red alert condition that Spock got (the captain's chair red alert bulb started flashing on the armrest). Spock then acted by apparently scanning the area and separating the Klingons from the humans and rematerializing just the humans first. When the Klingons were brought in, security had the jump and them, and for all we know, the klingon disrupters may have been deactivated by the transporter, too.

The crew is around 430, and apparently 400 were trapped below a certain level and the emergency bulkhead metal between them and the rest of the crew defied normal attempts to cut through it – thanks to the alien influence. That made it 40 humans vs. 40 klingons, or there abouts, and mostly in the upper decks, though somehow lower engineering is included – perhaps a more open and direct route remained clear.

Isn't a claymore also described as a Scottish basket hilted variant of that sword?

Day Of The Dove

Read Full Review

Spoiler

I've always enjoyed this swords and science episode, with a better look at the Klingons, and the plight of dealing with an alien being of incredible power on a run-away ship with the clock ticking toward Armageddon.

In this episode we actually see the Klingon transporter in operation - and its effects were, quite frankly, pretty cool. It just goes to show you there's often more than one solution to the same problem - so obviously, the Klingons use a different means to achieve the same end, however minor those cosmetic differences may be. It's also interesting to note that one can selectively re-materialize part of the party, and/or just never re-materialize some people or things. The transporter is a fierce weapon - but it's hardly ever used that way.

Trek TECH Rant

Spoiler

For example, when they first beamed Nomad aboard, there was no requirement that they re-materialize it. Also, Nomad foolishly took a hell of a risk allowing itself to be de-materialized. Later, when they beamed it away, again there was no urgent reason to re-materialize it in deep space or first make sure it would self-destruct - just let the energy bleed away or use it for something else. But such are the logical consequences of technology not fully thought through. The transporter, replicators, and holo-deck technologies (and probably artificial gravity and the universal translator) are some of the greatest sources of potential problems in show.

However, one thing they did consider were the lethal consequences of allowing one to beam through shields - just beam a nuke into an enemy vessel, or beam out people or components, and what can you do? Nothing. So, obviously, one cannot beam through active shields. Sadly, they sometimes outright forget this fact. And I have to believe the ship has some shielding up while traveling at warp, lest space dust crash through the ship at hyper light speeds and the like, so beaming aboard a ship at warp is pretty stupid, too. One may surmise, however, that the "warp bubble" effect already excludes "normal" matter in space from intersecting with anything in the warp bubble, so I guess it's possible they wouldn't have to have shields up - though I've also heard it said that "deflectors" are used for this, so I dunno.

Later, they will occasionally claim some shields work on a predictable cycle, momentarily dropping and resetting in a fraction of a second at regular intervals. During such a window, if you know it, you can beam through shields. This seems a little unlikely to me since I would think decent sensors could detect these openings, so it you had the time, you could beam a nuke or a person in or out at the right moment. Also, any beaming sequence I've ever seen takes a lot longer than a millisecond to complete - maybe it takes the better part of a minute or less, so any temporary window less than 10 seconds or whatever really wouldn't help matters. Of course, during an actual fight, there isn't time to discern such a pattern and take advantage of it anyway, so at best if you were familiar with a ship's shield specs and had the time, it could be done, but otherwise, it's not really an option.

The important take away here - you can't beam through shields. Feel free to scoff at any story that allows it.

It's interesting, and maybe surprising, that Kang knows Kirk by name and vice-versa before any introductions are exchanged. This is probably because the part was originally written for Kor, the Klingon commander from Errand of Mercy, and Kirk and Kor were already acquainted with one another. But the actor who played Kor (John Colicos) was busy, so he was replaced. Those story elements, however, were not, so apparently Kirk and Kang also encountered one another some time in the past - it's not clear where. Probably because their patrol sectors were close to one another. No big. Nothing too important ever happened, we can infer, though they almost certainly talked to one another via the big screen during this so-called "3 years" of the imposed peace treaty (I assume the Organian one).

Before long, the Enterprise destroys the disabled Klingon cruiser with a couple of phaser shots. I've always loved that part and was pretty POed it was actually cut for commercials quite a bit. But the phasers utterly destroyed the Klingon cruiser in a couple of shots, with the ship disintegrating into dust and in silence (apart from the sound of the phasers and the incidental music) just as soundless as it should be in space, so it was awesome. I loved that.

So I was quite surprised when the re-mastered version didn't have just a different visual effect, but added sound effects as well, unless I'm mistaken. The phasers there blew the ship apart into rather large chunks that went flying in different directions with additional secondary explosions, low and muffled, but there. It hadn't occurred to me before they were also doctoring the sound effects, so I'm not sure how long they've been doing that, or how often. I thought, like the dialogue, the original sounds were untouched, but I guess not. So be aware, at least on occasion they do seem to add new sound effects, too.

Of course, I would expect the Klingon vessel to lose anti-matter containment and produce a much larger explosion, but I have to believe when the ship is falling apart like that, part of the last ditch and still quite reliable automated system jettisons the anti-matter away from the rest of the ship. Now I'm not sure what kind of radiation that ship was throwing out that caused Scotty to be concerned, but in orbit about a uninhabited dust ball of a planet, it didn't seem that big a threat. Nevertheless, Kirk destroyed it.

In either event, it well demonstrates how effective phasers are at close range against an unshielded ship and makes us appreciate all the more the high quality shields and defense systems they have.

In fact, while Kirk didn't raise the shields in time before Khan starting shooting the Enterprise (from the movie, The Wrath of Khan), Lt. Savik did convince him to at least go to yellow alert and energize the defense grid, which is essentially putting up internal shields and structural force fields to reinforce the ship's internal strength. As we saw there, the Enterprise managed to hold up against phaser fire from the Reliant (rather than coming completely apart like the shieldless Klingon ship in this episode) just because of the yellow alert's defensive grid. If Kirk had NOT gone to yellow alert and energized the defensive grid, they would have been utterly destroyed just like that Klingon ship. And had Kirk raised the external shields as regulations required as well, he wouldn't have had such a problem with Khan, but then we wouldn't have had such a wonderful movie.

Though it seems quite easy and happens frequently in subsequent Trek series, this is the first and only time Intra-Ship beaming is done in TOS. Apparently it's quite dangerous (at that time). They did inter-ship beaming once, which was also described as quite dangerous. Without a second transporter system to catch and direct the original transporter beam, it's too easy to be off enough to put one inside a bulkhead, and that would just ruin most people's entire day.

This is the only time in TOS that we see female Klingons (two of them). While Captain Koloth (The Trouble With Tribbles) suggested Klingon ships didn't carry "non-essentials" - meaning women for sex - apparently they do have some when they hold key positions, like science officer. Maybe Koloth was just implying (or felt) most of the federation women aboard a starship were (he probably imagined) whores since he couldn't possibly believe that many females were needed in or qualified for key positions. Oh well. Koloth is a sexist pig.

For some weird reason, the computer's voice in this episode isn't the normal one, but is instead similar to the one they used for the Beta 5 snobbish computer that Gary Seven employed - but I guess Majel Berrett still did it, though it was done differently, while the Beta 5 was done by Barbara Babcock. Maybe different department computers sound different. Spock did ask for the Library computer there.

It's quite hard to say definitively we gained any insight in this episode about how any character "really thinks" since the alien is clearly distorting even the thoughts and feelings of the characters. But assuming some of it is real, I liked how one Klingon urged the others not to help captain Kang fight Kirk, making it an honorable fight, OR maybe he was first officer and would inherit command should his commander die. But I like to assume the former and the Klingon's tradition of honor and swordplay is first shown here and carried forward in later Trek series. It has been suggested in places the Klingons and Federation got along better at some point because the Klingons felt the Enterprise crew fought with honor during this encounter. It was certainly suggested in TNG's episode, Yesterday's Enterprise, just how much value the Klingon culture places on honorable acts, such as the Enterprise C fighting to the death against the Romulans while trying to save a Klingon outpost.

I've always complained that McCoy chastised the Klingons for hacking at a man after he was down when he patched up redshirt Johnson - since he was stabbed once and carried away, he was hardly repeatedly hacked after he was down, so WTF? But I guess there were other crewmen in sickbay by that time and maybe some of them were hack up a treat.

Scotty loves a claymore - not the older traditional two-handed variety, but the basket hilt smaller version that evolved in Scotland later - and apparently Scotty has some deeply buried feelings of Spock being a freak. A lot of racism comes to the surface in this episode. McCoy seems even more racially biased against the Klingons than Kirk, but we can't hold such things against anybody since the alien is seriously screwing up their normal reactions. Even Spock felt it, and if such a guy is susceptible, one can hardly blame a human or even a Klingon for as much.

This alien is supposed to be yet another one of those that Q transplanted into this galaxy. I dislike blaming anything and everything on Q in such a big galaxy, but when you got a nigh omnipotent power interacting with the normal mortals in the story, it's almost a foregone conclusion. This has always been a problem with allowing the Gods to directly interact with mortals in fictional worlds. It's problematic. So, if you can avoid it, you should. Sadly, this bugger of an alien got clean away so it's free to do it again.

Once again we must pause to wonder at the luck of the crew of the Enterprise. Had the alien chosen the Enterprise first, 400 of them would have died and we'd have had this fight on the Klingon ship after they destroyed the Enterprise. Thankfully, random chance seems to have operated in the Federation's favor.

Michael Ansara plays Kang (a role he reprises in DS9 and Voyager) and later he plays a different character named Jeyal in DS9 (who is one of Lwaxana Troi's husbands).

Our Beauty of the Day, Susan Howard, plays Mara (Kang's science officer and wife).

I've read that Chekov attempted to "rape" her, but I never really thought it would have gone that far - but hey, maybe it would have if Kirk hadn't bashed him. I thought the way he knocked him out with two open hand blows was somewhat interesting, too.

There isn't much that's remastered in this episode, apart from the destruction of the Klingon vessel, a few shots of the Enterprise and the dust ball of the planet below. Oh yeah, the Enterprise does zip through the galaxy at seemingly greater speeds in the remastered work. And they do change (slightly) where the alien exits the ship, but this episode makes it hard to say where things are in the ship. I've always felt most of engineering was in the main lower cylinder, but apparently much of it in the saucer section, too - perhaps near the impulse engines that are always shown glowing behind Scotty, and located at the back of the saucer section, if that's what those are. In any event, I wouldn't read too much into any locations given in one episode, but one might conclude the engineering section we most often see is, in fact, in part of saucer section from what they say. But from what they show, the alien does not exit the ship from there, but lower, so despite what sections Spock claims that the Klingons controlled, something is hinky there.

Side-By-Side Comparison

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I've given this episode an 8 out of 10 before, and while I'm not totally happy with the re-mastered version of the destruction of the Klingon ship, it doesn't change it enough to alter the rating. I just felt this episode connected and worked on many levels, so that's why I rate it so highly. YMMV. But I think it would have been AWESOME to see those new explosions, but hear nothing in the icy vacuum of space. Too bad. That might have warranted an 8.5.

 

[Mytran]

A fine collection of antiques indeed. But that is not even remotely a Claymore.

A common misconception. Although it was later attached to the two handed greatsword,
the name originally referred to the 17th century basket hilted weapon instead. A retcon, if you will
There's a brief summary on the usage of "claymore" here: http://www.encasedinsteel.co.uk/2015/02/06/what-is-a-claymore/
But how much fun would it have been to see Scotty charge down the hallways, swinging a two handed sword like a 23rd century William Wallace?

There isn't much that's remastered in this episode, apart from the destruction of the Klingon vessel, a few shots of the Enterprise and the dust ball of the planet below. Oh yeah, the Enterprise does zip through the galaxy at seemingly greater speeds in the remastered work. And they do change (slightly) where the alien exits the ship, but this episode makes it hard to say where things are in the ship. I've always felt most of engineering was in the main lower cylinder, but apparently much of it in the saucer section, too - perhaps near the impulse engines that are always shown glowing behind Scotty, and located at the back of the saucer section, if that's what those are. In any event, I wouldn't read too much into any locations given in one episode, but one might conclude the engineering section we most often see is, in fact, in part of saucer section from what they say. But from what they show, the alien does not exit the ship from there, but lower, so despite what sections Spock claims that the Klingons controlled, something is hinky there.

Day of the Dove is one of my favourite episodes, not least because we get to see so many goings on inside the ship. The setup with 400 crewman trapped "below decks" is obviously a contrivance from the writers so they could still use all the standing sets but in this instance I think they can get away with it, because the alien entity itself is imposing a contrived situation onto the 76 combatants. Add to that the fact that it can affect minds and it's very easy to imagine the majority of the crew filing off into unnecessary areas of the ship and closing the bulkheads behind them, perhaps under the belief that they're doing a fire drill or somesuch.
This procedure can apply to the Saucer and Engineering Hull equally, ensuring that both sides have a control centre (a Bridge and an Engine Room) and just enough corridors in between to fight over. Uhura says that there are 392 crewmen trapped in the "lower decks" but from her vantage point on the Bridge, all the decks are lower decks! Consequently, there could be crew trapped behind bulkheads all over the ship.
Spock does say at one point that the "Klingons control deck 6 and starboard deck 7" but that need not be the entire deck, just those areas left accessible by the Evil Entity. This also means that areas of the ship critical to the EE's plan in the Engineering Hull can be left available to our protaganists, without opening up the entire rest of the ship (or cramming 392 personnel into an impossibly small "lower decks" area)

One of my favourite minor moments is at the end when both crews are laughing and Kang give Kirk a hearty slap on the back - a bit too hearty apparently, from the look that Kirk shoots him! Or was that Shatner glaring at Ansara? However, consummate professionals that both actor and character are, they carry on with the scene


As regards our discussion on warp speed inconsistency I think a separate thread might be in order, especially if I am going to list every episode and note where TOS did or didn't conform to the absurd WF^3 directive. Suffice to say that the majority of the time we aren't even given enough information to determine it one way or the other. Otherwise this already tangential thread is going to get seriously derailed!

IMO, they are inconsistent from episode to episode, and they could have done a better job there, and probably should have if they put a dedicated person on that job. Some science geek intern willing to do it for no money, for example, but the experience of working on a sci-fi show.

Ah, if only TV worked that way...especially in the 1960s!

But in general, how many times do you see where this is even applicable? In That Which Survives, you may conclude a return along the original path is easier, but the strange absence of mentioning it sticks out, and suggesting the characters wouldn't talk of it or mention it since it old news to everybody is ridiculous. So that alone, failure to ever mention it in dialogue, works against you. Isn't that unrealistic, too? So correcting the numbers seems a better fix. I don't seriously think Kirk meant the sound amplifier magnified sounds by 1 to the 4th power just because that's what he said, for example. I don't mind changing it. And similarly I don't mind moving a decimal place or two if that helps. And why aren't they discussing my proposed changes? What's to discuss? We just assume they said it right. 1 x 10^4. Or the distance was different, etc.

A certain amount of flexibility is reasonable, but it depends on who is speaking and the circumstances that character is in. Kirk in the middle of a court martial for his very career talking about technical matters he only partly understands is one thing. Spock reading the figures off a screen (in an episode where is being pedantically precise at every opportunity) is something else. Spock and other characters also repeat the figure (or rounded up to the nearest thousand) multiple times in TWS, not just once.

I enjoy Trek, yes, but I'd enjoy it more if it were more consistent or they avoided some really stupid ideas. In fact, I've adopted the policy anyone should feel free to totally discount up to 5% of any Trek series episodes and pretend they never existed before judging the quality of any of the series. It helps.

Fair enough. I'm just a "warts and all" kind of guy

If the bio-packs can catch a cold, they can heal. But if not, then since they can't be replicated, it makes little sense the Voyager could keep going as they failed and they ran out of replacements, and even if they had enough for 7 years, there is no way they'd have enough for 75, let alone 400.

That problem (not having enough gel packs) was actually a major plot point of the episode Learning Curve - they don't have enough spares and there is NO WAY to replace the gel packs if they get sick and die

In general, though, these ships have to "heal" inasmuch as damaged sections are probably beamed away and rematerialized in the proper form. It only takes transporter and replicator tech and, of course, energy, all of which I still assume they can get in abundance while in close orbit about any star. It's getting or carrying energy between the stars that is the real trick.

That assumes transporter tech operates by totally breaking down every molecule into its equivalent amount of energy and then converting it back to a form of matter. Not only is that horribly inefficient (and requires storing insane amount of energy per person) it also means that you would never run out of anything! Not to mention that replicating Mr Data or a ton of gold pressed latinum would be no more difficult than replicating an apple - all you need a pattern scan, which a regular transporter pad provides
Since Voyager constantly is on energy rations and running out of supplies and since we don't see a Mr Data on every starship, I don't think transporters & replicators work that way.

Scott was right – it is two dozen, but they had that conversation half way with another dozen to go? They might work. But such a fact – we don't even know if it is 12 or 24 Lys, makes warp calculations hard to claim any consistency with any formula when it's so easy to disagree on the basic data.

Less about warp calculations in this case, and more about justifying the practical need to increase to Warp 7. The fact that distance X (from Gamma Two to 11.63 LY away from Triskelion) is unknown is not a problem in this case. Whether it is 20 or 28 light years in total, the events as presented still indicate that less than a day passed overall

 

[JRTStarlight]

A common misconception. Although it was later attached to the two handed greatsword, the name originally referred to the 17th century basket hilted weapon instead.

Just to be clear, you are saying the sword Scotty called a claymore is, in fact, a claymore, right?

Day of the Dove is one of my favorite episodes, not least because we get to see so many goings on inside the ship. The setup with 400 crewman trapped "below decks" is obviously a contrivance from the writers so they could still use all the standing sets but in this instance I think they can get away with it, because the alien entity itself is imposing a contrived situation onto the 76 combatants. Add to that the fact that it can affect minds and it's very easy to imagine the majority of the crew filing off into unnecessary areas of the ship and closing the bulkheads behind them, perhaps under the belief that they're doing a fire drill or some such.

I hadn't consider it necessary to justify trapping 392 crewmen, but I suppose the Alien could have tricked them into evacuating certain parts of the ship before causing the emergency bulkheads to close and their metal to be affected.

Uhura says that there are 392 crewmen trapped in the "lower decks" but from her vantage point on the Bridge, all the decks are lower decks!

Which would make her statement virtually useless as to where they were trapped, so I suspect by "lower" decks she means something else (perhaps the decks in the lower cylindrical section of the ship and not in the saucer section, for example, which are the upper decks). This is not to say they didn't have limited access to those lower decks (like maybe engineering) but most of those areas were closed off.

Consequently, there could be crew trapped behind bulkheads all over the ship.

I would also imagine there would be emergency bulkheads in most sections of the ship to handle unexpected depressurization or hull breaches.

One of my favorite minor moments is at the end when both crews are laughing and Kang give Kirk a hearty slap on the back - a bit too hearty apparently, from the look that Kirk shoots him! Or was that Shatner glaring at Ansara? However, consummate professionals that both actor and character are, they carry on with the scene

Ha, if it was Shatner just glaring at Ansara's too hard a hit, that would be funny. But it makes sense a "brutish" Klingon would be written to do that, and Kirk would take it, as a joke.

As regards our discussion on warp speed inconsistency I think a separate thread might be in order, especially if I am going to list every episode and note where TOS did or didn't conform to the absurd WF^3 directive. Suffice to say that the majority of the time we aren't even given enough information to determine it one way or the other. Otherwise this already tangential thread is going to get seriously derailed!

If you do start this thread, provide a link here. And by "given" enough information, do you mean just from the show? Since they may name stars and you could look up real distances, but that's a lot of work. And what about stardates, the time between shows, and the places they are from episode to episode? Will you make any calculations to see if they can get half way across known Federation space in the time those stardates represent? Not that stardates are consistent or better than warp factors, really. That's just another mess that doesn't work consistently, and the very suggestion they depend on ship velocities and galactic sectors might justify why they are all over the place and seemingly inconsistent, but it would also make them virtually worthless to express to another person when something happened.

A certain amount of flexibility is reasonable, but it depends on who is speaking and the circumstances that character is in. Kirk in the middle of a court martial for his very career talking about technical matters he only partly understands is one thing. Spock reading the figures off a screen (in an episode where is being pedantically precise at every opportunity) is something else. Spock and other characters also repeat the figure (or rounded up to the nearest thousand) multiple times in TWS, not just once.

Kirk not knowing scientific notion makes as much sense as Hans Solo not knowing a parsec is a unit of length and not time.

Parsec Rant

Spoiler

Since the parsec is based on Earth's AU or astronomical unit - i.e. the average distance from the earth to the sun, or about 93 million miles - there is no reason to expect the parsec in a different galaxy far, far away, or even a unit derived on another planet in this galaxy, to have the parsec as the same distance or length of 3.26 light years, of course, but the concept, whatever the local distance from planet to home star, would be a measure of distance and not a measure of time, regardless. I would not expect parsec to be a good standard of measurement of vast distances since each planet would likely have a different AU or might not use 360 degree in a circle but some other measurement, though 360 is more intrinsically useful and applicable galaxy wide than one could hope to expect all planets with intelligent life to be 93 million miles from their home star. Even the light year uses Earth's year, which is fairly random from the POV of other civilizations.
Doubtless finding common ground every Federation member can use as a standard would be difficult. I suspect every culture retains and uses their home grown measurements, but the Federation may have adopted some with more universal applicability. Therefore, it is possible, however unlikely I think they meant it that way, that parsecs resent a different distant and light years, too, represent a different distance than the ones we know and use on Earth today.

Shatner, however, might not know scientific notation, so this would not surprise me at all, but for all I know the writer screwed up. It's written that way in the on-line script, too, so maybe Shatner just read it like Ray Bolger's Scarecrow read that twisted and incorrect version of the Pythagorean Theorem in the Wizard of Oz. I thought it might be a social comment just having a diploma didn't really make you smart, but it was just a writer's mistake. Anyway, I don't think either actor knew it was incredibly wrong or they might have said something about it, but they know how to read a script, and that is their job – not fact checking.

As for Spock as his pedantry, I'm not suggesting it is always somebody "misspeaking" – but that I'd be fine with a retroactive rewrite now and again if it might fix things – so just assume it is not 990.7 light years, but 9.907 light years and that IS what everybody is saying.

BTW, did you notice Spock correcting Lt. Rahda more than once for this or that, but when Scott did it, he didn't correct him?

SCOTT: You mean that one of the people who threw us a thousand light years away from that planet is on board and killing our people?
SPOCK: A reasonable assumption, Mister Scott.

And not . . .

SPOCK: Honestly, Mr. Scott. It was 990.7 light years and not 1000. I do wish you would be more precise.
SCOTT: Mr. Spock, those few light years difference won't make the intruder any less lethal, or knowing that in anyway help locate them, while insisting on one decimal place precision will waste many minutes we cannot afford to lose.
SPOCK: Precisely 0.478 minutes we cannot afford to lose.

And what a dick Spock is being – if he has the information already and to that degree of precision, why berate Rahda for not giving him what he "needs"? And where is he even getting this data? She reported something he didn't even know (they were a considerable distance from where they started) and bam, magically he knows precisely how large this distance is and corrects her. Either he already knew it, or there is some display screen big enough that he can read it at a glance. Now maybe Rahda should be more precise, but he could have handled that better, or at least more consistently and maybe looked less misogynistic.

That assumes transporter tech operates by totally breaking down every molecule into its equivalent amount of energy and then converting it back to a form of matter. Not only is that horribly inefficient (and requires storing insane amount of energy per person) it also means that you would never run out of anything! Not to mention that replicating Mr. Data or a ton of gold pressed latinum would be no more difficult than replicating an apple - all you need a pattern scan, which a regular transporter pad provides. Since Voyager constantly is on energy rations and running out of supplies and since we don't see a Mr. Data on every starship, I don't think transporters & replicators work that way.

Their excuse is some things are easy to replicate, but more complex things cannot be, and some things defy replication. Of course the biggest fly in that ointment is anything too complicated to replicate should also not be able to go through a transporter at all since they are too complex to put them back together. They have said they cannot replicate gold pressed latinum (maybe that's part of what makes it so valuable, and maybe one cannot even transport it. Have we ever seen gold pressed latinum being trasported?). They cannot replicate certain medicines. They obviously cannot replicate people or the android, Data, (not normally, anyway) and make as many copies as they wish, so I feel the transporter's limitation of 420 seconds or 7 minutes is somehow "simultaneous enough" to hold something too complicated to replicate but long enough to transport. Also, reintegration somehow destroys most of the vital data, so they can't make several copies in those 420 seconds. So they can transport it, but can't apparently keep the horribly complex data in any meaningful way for more than 420 seconds or so, and reintegrating something uses that data up (somehow).

Anyway, simple structures, like a metal sheet, or parts of the ship's hull, would likely not be difficult to replicate. It just takes mass and energy. How Janeway expects to get energy back from recycling a gold pocket watch escapes me, however, as I would think it would take more energy to convert it once again. So apart from its mass, which you can pick up most anywhere, I don't see why that would save or reclaim replicator rations.

They can probably make gold, just as we can, technically, but it should cost more to do that than one can reclaim in the value of the gold.

In fact, in Kirk's time they can use the power of the ship to manufacture a ton of precious stones (not dilithium crystals, mind you, but diamonds, rubies, emeralds, and sapphires are no problem). Well, they might take a lot of energy, but in Trek, that's almost as free and costless as artificial gravity.

Less about warp calculations in this case, and more about justifying the practical need to increase to Warp 7. The fact that distance X (from Gamma Two to 11.63 LY away from Triskelion) is unknown is not a problem in this case. Whether it is 20 or 28 light years in total, the events as presented still indicate that less than a day passed overall.

I still doubt that. For one thing the stardates went from 3211.7 to 3211.8 just for Kirk to explain his problem. That should be about 2.4 hours. Then it goes to 3259.2, which normally represents 48 days, but Spock calls it 2 hours. Maybe they thought 2 days and those were hours on the left of the decimal point, but they are supposed to be days, and 2 days became 2 hours. It should take a lot longer than 2 hours to search a planet, too. but O.K. But mostly, and this is the kicker, Kirk's log supplement claims he doesn't know the stardate anymore.

Captain's log, supplemental. Stardate, unknown. Our strange captivity continues. This planet is called Triskelion. We do not know its location. We do not know who controls it. Its dangers are abundantly clear.

Well, maybe he lost track of what day it was in less than a day, or since he can't know the exact hour, he just says unknown, even though he knows full well it's still Tuesday. Either way, it seems unlikely he'd say unknown (not that he's really recording it, so where is he even making this log entry?)

The cube formula suggests at warp 7 (343c) they could travel 12 light years in a little less than 13 days. The 4th power would be 2401c and that would still take 1.8 days. And that assumes warp 7 the full 12 light years. The 5th power, 16,807c would take 9 hours at warp 7 the whole way. But warp 7 was only for the last leg, so warp 6 most of the way would seriously extend those times and the warp 7 changeover wouldn't save much time at all. But like in TWS, every second might count. This time, they got there in time to watch Kirk challenge the Providers and fight and win the match, but they weren't much help. Well, apart from Kirk actually betting them like poker chips. I'm not sure how they might feel about that, but since Kirk won, I guess it's not too important. Do you suppose they would have honored their captain's wager had he lost? The Provider's honored theirs - or so it is assumed. Maybe once Kirk and company leave, it was back to normal - except let's not tell anyone Kirk killed an andorian and Federation citizen, OK?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

For the World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky

I'll be honest. At this point in the series, I'm starting to tire of the same basic ideas coming back again and again - with the computer 'god' ruling over a primitive civilization for their own good being probably the worst offender. So this episode had a very difficult time pulling me in. Most of the first half seemed routine and predictable without much of anything to truly hang onto.

But the ending did kind of bring me around. I really like that, for once, they didn't destroy the computer, but fixed it so that it will fulfill its actual purpose. I like that they convinced the High Priestess and she accepted it and came to grips with it and chose to lead her people to their destination rather than have a breakdown about her religion. I like that in the end it was a simple story (with obvious, but totally understandable obstacles) about fixing a simple problem, but one which could've led to a massive tragedy. It felt like the kind of thing you want to see more often: just people helping others because they know help is needed. I actually kind of wish we had seen the Enterprise visit New Fabrini once, as the relationship there had potential and would've provided so many more longterm possibilities that could've made this the definitive computer god storyline.

So I'd call it a solid story overall.

Other observations I had:

McCoy's illness was contrived from the start. I honestly don't think it even added that much to the story, except perhaps to demonstrate the highly advanced nature of Fabrini technology at the end.

It's getting almost weird to think how Kirk gained this huge, popcultural reputation as a ladykiller when most of the time, he doesn't actually get involved at all - yet McCoy is racking up relationships throughout the series...

'It's very similar to a Federation vessel' - who knew Spock had such a talent for understatement? Is it possible that actually was one of the Enterprise engineering sets? Because that pretty much was exactly Federation technology. As a part of this kind of small, one-off story, it almost puts me off since it's such a weird detail to just throw in there (I suppose it's another hint that the Fabrini are actually very advanced/'just as good as the Federation' but are simply living through a waiting period before they can rebuild their civilization). If we had gotten to see them again, I'd almost consider it foreshadowing of the inevitability of this highly comparable civilization ultimately joining the Federation, maybe even becoming an important part of it.

 

[Mytran]

Just to be clear, you are saying the sword Scotty called a claymore is, in fact, a claymore, right?

Yes, I am saying that (or at least close enough for a 1960s prop)
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x07/dayofdove_163.jpg
https://www.reliks.com/functional-european-swords/brass-baskethilt-claymore/

… I suspect by "lower" decks she means something else (perhaps the decks in the lower cylindrical section of the ship and not in the saucer section, for example, which are the upper decks). This is not to say they didn't have limited access to those lower decks (like maybe engineering) but most of those areas were closed off.

Perhaps Uhura considers anything below the teardrop section (the command pod) to be “lower decks” and/or just got fed of saying “reports coming in from the rest of the ship”?
However, both the lower half of the cylinder of the lower half of the saucer would be a REAL squash for those 392 crewman, though. If not for the mental trickery of the Evil Entity, what were they all doing down there?

If you do start this thread, provide a link here. And by "given" enough information, do you mean just from the show? Since they may name stars and you could look up real distances, but that's a lot of work. And what about stardates, the time between shows, and the places they are from episode to episode? Will you make any calculations to see if they can get half way across known Federation space in the time those stardates represent? Not that stardates are consistent or better than warp factors, really. That's just another mess that doesn't work consistently, and the very suggestion they depend on ship velocities and galactic sectors might justify why they are all over the place and seemingly inconsistent, but it would also make them virtually worthless to express to another person when something happened.

I would keep the list as general as possible in order to make it practical, at least to start with. However, I don’t consider stardates as reliable for anything more than a rough guide within a single episode and tend to defer to the explanation provided by Gene himself for their apparent randomness:
"This time system adjusts for shifts in relative time which occur due to the vessel's speed and space warp capability. It has little relationship to Earth's time as we know it. One hour aboard the U.S.S.Enterprise at different times may equal as little as three Earth hours. The stardates specified in the log entry must be computed against the speed of the vessel, the space warp, and its position within our galaxy, in order to give a meaningful reading."

Kirk not knowing scientific notion makes as much sense as Hans Solo not knowing a parsec is a unit of length and not time.

Not so much didn’t know, just getting flustered in the heat of the moment

Parsec Rant

Spoiler

Since the parsec is based on Earth's AU or astronomical unit - i.e. the average distance from the earth to the sun, or about 93 million miles - there is no reason to expect the parsec in a different galaxy far, far away, or even a unit derived on another planet in this galaxy, to have the parsec as the same distance or length of 3.26 light years, of course, but the concept, whatever the local distance from planet to home star, would be a measure of distance and not a measure of time, regardless. I would not expect parsec to be a good standard of measurement of vast distances since each planet would likely have a different AU or might not use 360 degree in a circle but some other measurement, though 360 is more intrinsically useful and applicable galaxy wide than one could hope to expect all planets with intelligent life to be 93 million miles from their home star. Even the light year uses Earth's year, which is fairly random from the POV of other civilizations.

Doubtless finding common ground every Federation member can use as a standard would be difficult. I suspect every culture retains and uses their home grown measurements, but the Federation may have adopted some with more universal applicability. Therefore, it is possible, however unlikely I think they meant it that way, that parsecs resent a different distant and light years, too, represent a different distance than the ones we know and use on Earth today.

I agree – such measurements are woefully Terra-centric and really have no place in a galactic federation. On an Earth ship, with Earth translators though, maybe…

And what a dick Spock is being – if he has the information already and to that degree of precision, why berate Rahda for not giving him what he "needs"? And where is he even getting this data? She reported something he didn't even know (they were a considerable distance from where they started) and bam, magically he knows precisely how large this distance is and corrects her. Either he already knew it, or there is some display screen big enough that he can read it at a glance. Now maybe Rahda should be more precise, but he could have handled that better, or at least more consistently and maybe looked less misogynistic.

Spock really was being absurdly “Spockish” throughout this entire episode. A theory I read once had it that certain of his higher brain functions hadn’t been connected up correctly at the end of Spock’s Brain and that is why he keeps tapping away on his remote control from that episode – he needs it for extra brain power!
With all going on, no wonder he was bad tempered

Their excuse is some things are easy to replicate, but more complex things cannot be, and some things defy replication. Of course the biggest fly in that ointment is anything too complicated to replicate should also not be able to go through a transporter at all since they are too complex to put them back together. They have said they cannot replicate gold pressed latinum (maybe that's part of what makes it so valuable, and maybe one cannot even transport it. Have we ever seen gold pressed latinum being trasported?). They cannot replicate certain medicines. They obviously cannot replicate people or the android, Data, (not normally, anyway) and make as many copies as they wish, so I feel the transporter's limitation of 420 seconds or 7 minutes is somehow "simultaneous enough" to hold something too complicated to replicate but long enough to transport. Also, reintegration somehow destroys most of the vital data, so they can't make several copies in those 420 seconds. So they can transport it, but can't apparently keep the horribly complex data in any meaningful way for more than 420 seconds or so, and reintegrating something uses that data up (somehow).

Anyway, simple structures, like a metal sheet, or parts of the ship's hull, would likely not be difficult to replicate. It just takes mass and energy. How Janeway expects to get energy back from recycling a gold pocket watch escapes me, however, as I would think it would take more energy to convert it once again. So apart from its mass, which you can pick up most anywhere, I don't see why that would save or reclaim replicator rations.

They can probably make gold, just as we can, technically, but it should cost more to do that than one can reclaim in the value of the gold.

All good examples of why the transporter and replictor systems really can’t operate as disintegrators/reintegrators on the atomic level.

In fact, in Kirk's time they can use the power of the ship to manufacture a ton of precious stones (not dilithium crystals, mind you, but diamonds, rubies, emeralds, and sapphires are no problem). Well, they might take a lot of energy, but in Trek, that's almost as free and costless as artificial gravity.

Manufacturing such ”baubles” should not be a big deal for future technology – we can manufacture industrial diamonds today.
As for energy being nearly free and costless, if that were the case then half the “crisis” situations that feature in Star Trek episodes wouldn’t exist.
The artificial gravity field on the other hand is probably so robust because without it pushing back against inertia outside the ship, the crew wouldn’t just be tossed out of their seats, they’d be steamrollered into chunky salsa paste.
As a result, whatever else happens the gravity field STAYS ON. A handy side effect of that is that gravity on each deck of the ship is always maintained at a 0.8G minimum at all times ;-)

I still doubt that. For one thing the stardates went from 3211.7 to 3211.8 just for Kirk to explain his problem. That should be about 2.4 hours. Then it goes to 3259.2, which normally represents 48 days, but Spock calls it 2 hours. Maybe they thought 2 days and those were hours on the left of the decimal point, but they are supposed to be days, and 2 days became 2 hours. It should take a lot longer than 2 hours to search a planet, too. but O.K. But mostly, and this is the kicker, Kirk's log supplement claims he doesn't know the stardate anymore.

Captain's log, supplemental. Stardate, unknown. Our strange captivity continues. This planet is called Triskelion. We do not know its location. We do not know who controls it. Its dangers are abundantly clear.

Well, maybe he lost track of what day it was in less than a day, or since he can't know the exact hour, he just says unknown, even though he knows full well it's still Tuesday. Either way, it seems unlikely he'd say unknown (not that he's really recording it, so where is he even making this log entry?)

Yeah, stardates are exceptionally weird in this episode. I suppose we could postulate some sort of phase-shift wave was due to sweep through that section of the galaxy at the time the trio were kidknapped, an energy wave that would require recalibrating the ship's Stardate clocks (hence the sudden increase in Stardate units). Without access to a shipboard chronometer, Kirk (stranded on Triskelion) would have no idea was the "new" Stardate was, hence him listing it as "unknown" in his mental log.
But in general, I defer to my GR quote above

The cube formula suggests at warp 7 (343c) they could travel 12 light years in a little less than 13 days. The 4th power would be 2401c and that would still take 1.8 days. And that assumes warp 7 the full 12 light years. The 5th power, 16,807c would take 9 hours at warp 7 the whole way. But warp 7 was only for the last leg, so warp 6 most of the way would seriously extend those times and the warp 7 changeover wouldn't save much time at all. But like in TWS, every second might count.

Interesting - I must admit I hadn't actually done the calculations for GOT before! Time to get a start on that thread...

Maybe once Kirk and company leave, it was back to normal - except let's not tell anyone Kirk killed an andorian and Federation citizen, OK?

To paraphrase Arnie in "True Lies" - yes, he killed them. But they were all bad!!!!

 

[JRTStarlight]

Perhaps Uhura considers anything below the teardrop section (the command pod) to be “lower decks” and/or just got fed up saying “reports coming in from the rest of the ship”?

However, both the lower half of the cylinder of the lower half of the saucer would be a REAL squash for those 392 crewman, though. If not for the mental trickery of the Evil Entity, what were they all doing down there?

I wouldn't think it would be so packed or require they all be in one place. Like I said, emergency bulkheads are likely everywhere. Those 392 are almost certainly not all together, either, but probably in server large groups, and none of them can get to the upper decks. The alien entity might be at its limit controlling around 80 people as it is, or I'd expect the crew in those lower decks to be at each other's throats down there, too. Plenty of reasons to hate those you share close quarters with when you can never really get away from them. But since they are cut off, and we don't ever hear of it, they were probably fine.

I would keep the list as general as possible in order to make it practical, at least to start with. However, I don’t consider stardates as reliable for anything more than a rough guide within a single episode and tend to defer to the explanation provided by Gene himself for their apparent randomness:

Gene's suggestion was utter nonsense. After he picked something that sounded more futuristic, he was just trying to justify why it was so inconsistent, and he never gave much thought to how impractical his solution was for that. I did love the idea of incorporating the century and the season into the stardates, so I wish they had done that consistently. That would have been worth something and useful. But this was before astronomy knew enough about black holes and pulsars and probably had anything they knew they might use as a galactic time standard – not that he really wanted that since it would have been nigh impossible for him to conform to a fictitious clock as well as a RL time schedule. And airing them out of order does nobody any favors.

Not so much didn’t know, just getting flustered in the heat of the moment

One might hope. But Kirk is what, proving there HE doesn't get flustered, so even that explanation is dubious.

KIRK: No way did I push those buttons in the wrong order since I was flustered – I don't get flustered.
JUDGE: So you have said, and your guilt or innocence depends upon that fact, but why are we here now? What was it you wished to show us?
KIRK: This sound amplifier will prove Finney is alive by magnifying sound by 1 to 4th power.
JUDGE: Don't you mean 1 x 10 to the 4th power?
KIRK: Ooops, sorry, I was flustered. I meant not 1 to 4th power, but, but . . .
JUDGES: GUILTY!

I agree – such measurements are woefully Terra-centric and really have no place in a galactic federation. On an Earth ship, with Earth translators though, maybe…

Yeah, and with computers and maybe even internally implanted universal translators, many measurement systems may be employed and translated for you automatically (and to your desired number of significant digits, lest the UT be forever saying 25.9984567 hours to Sisko whenever Kira mentions the length of the Bajoran day (or whatever it really is).

All good examples of why the transporter and replicator systems really can’t operate as disintegrators/reintegrators on the atomic level.

And yet it pretty much has to work that way since they say it does, more or less, many times. But like warp drive, transporters or replicators deserve their own thread.

Manufacturing such ”baubles” should not be a big deal for future technology – we can manufacture industrial diamonds today.

Harder to make gem quality stones, which Kirk suggested they could. And if they replicate them, that's a whole different tech than what is employed to make industrial diamonds today.

As for energy being nearly free and costless, if that were the case then half the “crisis” situations that feature in Star Trek episodes wouldn’t exist.

It's only free or costless when all systems are working and you have the time to do things. During emergencies, doubtless you can't take all the time you need or get all the energy you want, where you want it, when you need it, in the normal form of energy, or of a type you've never before encountered.

The artificial gravity field on the other hand is probably so robust because without it pushing back against inertia outside the ship, the crew wouldn’t just be tossed out of their seats, they’d be steamrollered into chunky salsa paste.

There must be a distinction between the systems of artificial gravity and the inertial compensators. They may, however, work on the same principles and cost the same. But if AG goes out, well, you float a bit. Maybe if you're sleeping and the fans are out, too, you'll collect enough CO2 around your head and suffocate before you wake up. But losing AG is not normally lethal. Losing the IDs, however, will kill you at most any alteration in velocity at those magnitudes. Paste city Arizona.

As a result, whatever else happens the gravity field STAYS ON. A handy side effect of that is that gravity on each deck of the ship is always maintained at a 0.8G minimum at all times ;-)

I think not. Though after losing optimal conditions, a lot of decks seem to go down to 0.8g (you hear it all the time on the coms, as I'm sure you are saying there for that reason). I do wish they had changed that up a bit now and again. 0.7g's is too hard to say?

Yeah, stardates are exceptionally weird in this episode. I suppose we could postulate some sort of phase-shift wave was due to sweep through that section of the galaxy at the time the trio were kidnapped, an energy wave that would require recalibrating the ship's Stardate clocks (hence the sudden increase in Stardate units). Without access to a shipboard chronometer, Kirk (stranded on Triskelion) would have no idea was the "new" Stardate was, hence him listing it as "unknown" in his mental log.

But in general, I defer to my GR quote above

Even when the standard is don't worry about stardates between episodes, but do worry within an episode since that's what matters, they screwed the pooch in TGoT. I seriously do wonder what was in the original transcripts, but all those I have access to seem written to best reflect what was actually said and never what was orignally written. So some decision was likely made to change from 2 days to 2 hours, and some misunderstanding of the stardate system was used by the writer, but apart from changing the time or the stardates, I wouldn't know how to fix it. But I won't buy the argument just so Kirk doesn't know what time it is well enough to note it. I suspect enough time must have passed that he couldn't be sure, not that this means it's huge, but he saw little point keeping track of it in those days and in that situation. It's not like it was a "real" log entry, anyway. Unless, do you suppose, they have implanted recorders, or their implanted UTs can record things? There's a thought.

Interesting - I must admit I hadn't actually done the calculations for GOT before! Time to get a start on that thread...

Of course. And if you put upon your head the Teacher first, you can do it at warp speed. But I wouldn't risk it if I were you.

To paraphrase Arnie in "True Lies" - yes, he killed them. But they were all bad!!!!

Self Defense, at the very least. Betting his crew like poker chips actually seems a bigger deal to me, but then with the obvious power of the Providers, he didn't really have a better alternative. Or so I'd wager.

 

[JRTStarlight]

For the World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky

I'll be honest. At this point in the series, I'm starting to tire of the same basic ideas coming back again and again - with the computer 'god' ruling over a primitive civilization for their own good being probably the worst offender. So this episode had a very difficult time pulling me in. Most of the first half seemed routine and predictable without much of anything to truly hang onto.

But the ending did kind of bring me around. I really like that, for once, they didn't destroy the computer, but fixed it so that it will fulfill its actual purpose. I like that they convinced the High Priestess and she accepted it and came to grips with it and chose to lead her people to their destination rather than have a breakdown about her religion. I like that in the end it was a simple story (with obvious, but totally understandable obstacles) about fixing a simple problem, but one that could've led to a massive tragedy. It felt like the kind of thing you want to see more often: just people helping others because they know help is needed. I actually kind of wish we had seen the Enterprise visit New Fabrini once, as the relationship there had potential and would've provided so many more long-term possibilities that could've made this the definitive computer god storyline.

So I'd call it a solid story overall.

Other observations I had:

McCoy's illness was contrived from the start. I honestly don't think it even added that much to the story, except perhaps to demonstrate the highly advanced nature of Fabrini technology at the end.

It's getting almost weird to think how Kirk gained this huge, pop cultural reputation as a lady-killer when most of the time, he doesn't actually get involved at all - yet McCoy is racking up relationships throughout the series...

'It's very similar to a Federation vessel' - who knew Spock had such a talent for understatement? Is it possible that actually was one of the Enterprise engineering sets? Because that pretty much was exactly Federation technology. As a part of this kind of small, one-off story, it almost puts me off since it's such a weird detail to just throw in there (I suppose it's another hint that the Fabrini are actually very advanced/'just as good as the Federation' but are simply living through a waiting period before they can rebuild their civilization). If we had gotten to see them again, I'd almost consider it foreshadowing of the inevitability of this highly comparable civilization ultimately joining the Federation, maybe even becoming an important part of it.

It would have been nice if some TNG or beyond series met or used some things from the Fabrini, but I don't think they did. Though I hear tell McCoy spent much time back there after the 5 year mission but before TMP.

For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky

Read Full Review

Spoiler

Yep, that's the longest title of any TOS episode, in case you weren't sure. Look at them all half-assing it on only one knee in the above picture.

This is an episode with remarkable parallels to The Paradise Syndrome, but it's not done nearly as well, IMO, and unfortunately, it reuses many of the same sets, props, and ship shots, making it a bit of a disappointment for those looking for something new. Luckily, the re-mastered version at least gives us new images.

Yet this story has some pretty good elements (particularly of the heating variety, ha ha,) but it's just not as good as Syndrome. Worth watching, yes, and some different ideas, and different characters in different roles (McCoy, instead of Kirk, falling for the beautiful high priestess). The best thing about this episode is probably the speculation as to how this situation arose, and what might occur on a multigenerational ship. And we get to see a third marriage ceremony - now with one for each of the three major characters, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

We open with the bridge on red alert, tension is high, though the danger is actually pretty low. Who is shooting at us? The weapons are a joke, but still - so while Kirk could easily sidestep sublight missiles, he decides it's best to destroy them, and rightly so. Sadly, while the re-worked 6 independently moving missiles are nicer than the older static 6 that were in lockstep with one another, their destruction isn't as impressive. The old effect was just a blast with a blinding white screen, while the new effect is a weaker, less impressive set of simultaneous explosions. And who or why they fired is never really explained, so . . .

But the asteroid and ship shots are sooooooooooooo much better.

Side-By-Side Comparison

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Kirk orders the ship to travel at warp 3 to the missiles' point of origin. Weird. Sublight missiles shouldn't have been that far away from their origin, and yet at warp 3, the time it took Kirk to learn of McCoy's illness would have been way too much. Suffice it to say, it doesn't exactly add up. No way could Yonada (the asteroid ship) have seen the Enterprise that far out with its far more primitive tech, so there's a slight disconnect there.

Yonada is, apparently, a nuclear powered hollowed out natural asteroid 200 miles in diameter. I imagine, to leave hard radiation and move something that size, a series of fission explosions are used - perhaps similar to the Orion Project concept.

FYI, it'd take a rocky mass about 350 miles wide or larger to collapse into a sphere under its own gravity, and this asteroid is < 200 miles D, so we're good here (unlike in Syndrome where the decidedly non-spherical so-called asteroid was the size of our moon). FYI, the Death Star from Star Wars was 100 miles in diameter, so about half the size of Yonada, while our moon is over 2,000 miles in diameter.

Yonada has a hollow shell that surrounds the inner world, which is also at least partially hollow - we've no idea how large the population is or how far down they go, so no clue how many people are there - unlike Daran V whose population of almost 4 billion is in danger thanks to Yonada being off course. I inferred the Federation was willing to blow up Yonada to save Daran V, but thankfully, though he might have been disobeying orders, Kirk found a much better solution, and it's hard to argue with success (and that lovely database they picked up, too), free for the taking.

Perhaps a few "mountains" connect the inner core to the outer shell to stabilize it - this would make it literally possible for a man to climb the mountains and touch the sky. But this outer shell is mostly used to contain an atmosphere for the inner surface and it would seem it also acts as a screen upon which to project a reddish sky (and a sun, I think) during the day and stars at night (Natira has even seen the sun and the stars, she says). We don't get to see that fake projection, but we can infer it must be there.

Yonada has been traveling along at (I assume) sublight speeds for 10,000 years. Honestly, that's a long-ass time, and despite that, you probably wouldn't get very far in just 10K years at the sublight speeds you could likely generated for a ship that size. Compare 10K years to 2K years here since Christ, or 5K years since ancient Egypt, or older 12K years since the glaciers melted and some of us moved into North America, and things really began to hop along for us. We hardly know squat from so far back. Now just ponder a civilization that's been trucking along for 10K years and marvel at it. Do they know much, have they changed much, or what?

One may speculate as to why the creators would wish to fool its people into believing they were on a planet and not a ship, but that assumes a few things not in evidence. Given the oppressive and harsh religious nature of the oracle, one might be closer to the truth to assume "subcultures" have come and gone, civil wars have occurred, and religious cleansing became the norm, the winning religious fanatical faction having taken power and then reprogramming the oracle to be more pious and faithful, and harsher to infidels and blasphemers (pain, or even death awaiting those who even questioned its authority, or the true word of the creators, whatever that might be). Perhaps all that was done to insure the greater mission, or just enforce their current beliefs as of the last war, and after 10K years, it's not surprising dogma might eclipse science, sort of like the dark ages did here. Such a limited society might have a better chance of surviving a long journey than one where freedom or anarchy or choice reigned. Harsh? Yes, but perhaps practical, given the circumstances.

In any event, it might be foolish to assume the way that society is now is the way it's always been for the last 10K years. It could be wildly different than how it started out, where they might have known the mission and everything. But they just lost that knowledge.

I'm impressed with the "mind reading" technology, but maybe the implanted chip of obedience just registered normal biometrics and it was the external and ubiquitous cameras and microphones that allowed the oracle to know who was saying what and when they were breaking the faith. This seems more likely than tech that can actually read minds. But if so, the oracle obviously doesn't bother looking at everything all the time. Otherwise, Kirk and Spock couldn't have gone unnoticed for so long. Then again, it might just be in the habit of tracking and looking at and listening to chipped inhabitants, so only when Natira arrived did it notice Kirk and Spock. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I scoff at the apparent ease and availability of knowledge about the Fabrini race, stellar system, and language that Spock happens to have. If that system went supernova 10K years ago, I'm surprised anything of the system remained to be examined, like an archeological record or ruins. Maybe if they were a more advanced, spacefaring race on multiple planets in multiple stellar systems, O.K., but the whole idea here is they were more primitive than the Federation and what they could save was represented on their asteroid ship, everything else having been lost. So how does Spock know Fabrini, how do they know the stellar system had 8 planets, etc.? I feel they knew too much for realism's sake. Or maybe the Federation picked up a galactic database that was older than 10K years, so it would still have that kind of information in it. Spock is truly a marvel to know all that stuff. Then again, maybe he's just the type to cram and review everything about the area of space they are scheduled to go into. He is a good scout, that Vulcan.

And how convenient that McCoy suddenly has a fatal illness that has no cure only to find the cure that very week? That was weak all right. Sure, it gave him a more compelling reason to end his days shacked up with the priestess, but he seems to have blown her off quickly enough. Still, their romance seemed more honest and genuine than Spock's and the Romulan commander's, or Spock's and Leila Kolami's, though less romantic than Kirok's and Miramanee's, except Kirk lost his mind so that doesn't count for Kirk. Well, you know what they say. Ironically, love isn't in the stars for these boys.

And, of course, we scoff again at Spock and his tricorder, not only downloading a civilization's amassed information in seconds, but also picking the very thing out of the bunch they needed. Lucky, that.

I wonder why Yonada needs armed guards, given how effective the oracle is at discipline. I also wonder why it would restrain itself from using its obviously more effective weaponry to stop Kirk and Spock, and instead used heating elements and wind - a slow, sloppy, very uncertain means of stopping anyone. I'd like to think it was programmed to put one last scare into anyone attempting to retake control, since maybe the plan was for somebody to do just that, but they wanted to make sure whoever was doing it had the will to do so and didn't cower at the angry computer.

While Kirk bested the computer again, this time he didn't out talk it or out think it - he just sidestepped it. Perhaps, as I suggested, it allowed him to do that.

For what it's worth, I also strongly suspect the people of Fabrini are humans transplanted by the preservers - and therefore with the same DNA as humans 10K to 12K years or even much longer ago when they picked a bunch up off Earth (or where ever). How else could the same diseases plague both species and the cures easily work on both, too? Lots of humans in the galaxy due to those preserver guys, and they were at work about 12K+ years or more ago, so they could have populated the Fabrini system, and later even helped build their asteroid ship, Yonada, as a second transplant to save most the that garden. You just can never tell with those guys. But maybe after 2K+ years the people themselves discovered the sun where they were transplanted was going to go, and so had to escape on their own. Otherwise, the remarkable similarities between humanoid species are just too great.

I have to wonder that since Yonada was on a collision course with Daran V in 396 days, and by the end of the episode, they were scheduled to reach their destination in 390 days, whether Daran V wasn't indeed their intended destination (or at least another suitable planet in that same stellar system). At that speed, in that time, they could hardly make it to another stellar system. And one also has to wonder how the creators knew where a new suitable planet would be (though the preservers may have known). Far more likely such a multigenerational ship shot would be hit or miss - go to another stellar system and then see if something there is suitable - and if not, push on to the next closet stellar system (perhaps after harvesting some raw materials from the current stellar system to restock yourselves for the long journey of another few dozen generations). Well, maybe the nearly 4 billion people of Daran V can make room for the people of Yonada, now that they are no longer going to collide with them but simply settle into a nearby orbit (I would assume). Maybe they've written some follow up novels to this story, but if so, I don't know them.

Quite frankly, I'd be quite willing to welcome them if the people of Daran V got to keep and use such a massive self-sustaining ship – it would be highly useful. And the medical records and other knowledge? Forget about it (I mean, happily take and use it).

One of my favorite parts in the episode was where Spock helped the weakened McCoy (after the first oracle zapping, Spock seemed more concerned for McCoy than normal) revealing instantly to McCoy that Kirk must have told Spock about the doctor's illness, and that Spock cared for the doctor as a friend. And McCoy also understood Kirk's position and didn't hold the violation of trust against him. These are 3 good friends, and quite a bit of that interrelationship between the trio can be discerned in that simple scene. Loved it.

Our beauty of the day is Katherine Woodville playing the high priestess, Natira. She was enough to turn the doctor's head. I tend to hate the 60's hairstyles, but otherwise . . . and I actually liked her dress. It was provocative and it seemed almost practical - not like it needed to be glued on or held together with impractical pins or tape.

Jon Lormer has his third and last of three appearances - first as an old scientist in The Cage, then as Tamar in The Return Of The Archons, and finally here as the old man in For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky. The music used for him was identical in The Cage and this episode.

Once again, let's hear it for Jimmy Doohan's voice talent as the Oracle. If you didn't know it, it's hard to believe that voice is from the same guy as our beloved engineer.

Well, I felt the episode lacked a few things, or tripped up too much, or was too repetitive, or just slow. It left stuff to be desired, and a similar, better episode was already out there. So I gave it a 4 out of 10 before. But with new re-mastered footage, I raised that to a 5 out of 10.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The Tholian Web

Sensors claim the Defiant isn't actually there, but the transporter can still beam them aboard?

Those are some fancy exosuits. Kind of inspired by an anatomy model, I think.

I always like how Kirk puts his crew first.

The Tholians are incredibly accomodating in comparison to many species. Actually far less strident than I remembered.

Kind of weird to admit Uhura and strap her down because of a single vision that happened once, was completely non-violent and had nothing in common with the other cases. And they already developed a clear method for diagnosing the problem definitively, which should've shown Uhura as not yet infected...

The Tholian Web looks really cool and all - but, uh, how much use is it really when its so incredibly slow to put into use?

Overall, I'd say this was a good episode. I like the cascade of problems from the phasing to the power loss and the Tholians. It was very enjoyable watching Spock and McCoy try to work together in the 'knowledge' that Kirk was dead and especially seeing them come to better terms with one another. (A few parts seemed slightly out of character, but that's easily chalked up to the effects of the space) The science concepts seemed fairly dodgey more or less throughout, but not to such an extent that it seriously bothered me. And I rather liked the Tholians' appearance and portrayal here, even though their part was actually very small.

 

[JRTStarlight]

The Tholian Web

Sensors claim the Defiant isn't actually there, but the transporter can still beam them aboard?

Those are some fancy exosuits. Kind of inspired by an anatomy model, I think.

I always like how Kirk puts his crew first.

The Tholians are incredibly accommodating in comparison to many species. Actually far less strident than I remembered.

Kind of weird to admit Uhura and strap her down because of a single vision that happened once, was completely non-violent and had nothing in common with the other cases. And they already developed a clear method for diagnosing the problem definitively, which should've shown Uhura as not yet affected...

The Tholian Web looks really cool and all - but, uh, how much use is it really when its so incredibly slow to put into use?

Overall, I'd say this was a good episode. I like the cascade of problems from the phasing to the power loss and the Tholians. It was very enjoyable watching Spock and McCoy try to work together in the 'knowledge' that Kirk was dead and especially seeing them come to better terms with one another. (A few parts seemed slightly out of character, but that's easily chalked up to the effects of the space) The science concepts seemed fairly dodgey more or less throughout, but not to such an extent that it seriously bothered me. And I rather liked the Tholians' appearance and portrayal here, even though their part was actually very small.

They can see where it is, so they can beam there, even if their sensors say it is not there, the space would still be. That's why they are in spacesuits – it might just be empty space or unbreathable vacuum.

And Uhura did seem affected by pain and she passed out, so it's a good reason to keep an eye on her.

The Tholian Web

Read Full Review

Spoiler

As kids, I remember my brother John and I typically referred to this episode as "The Glowing Enterprise." Well, kids. Even while younger, we apparently watched and rewatched these enough to get to know them well enough to have "pet names" for some episodes. Anyway . . .

This was a wonderful episode, IMO, though, for dramatic effect, I think Doctor McCoy crossed over the line once again. I'd like to blame it on the unusual region of space they're in, but I can't since Kirk - apparently quite some time before entering that space - even predicted Spock and McCoy would probably be bickering and at each other's throats, locked in "mortal combat." And they were. If he felt that way, he probably should have had that conversation with them a lot sooner. Now maybe I just don't appreciate McCoy's point of view or I more easily understand Spock's, and others might think Spock's the one who is way off base there, but I dunno. Perhaps it would have been more prudent to abandon the captain, declare him dead, and better ensure the survival of over 430 crewmen, not to mention the more important asset, the ship itself. Still, that's not the way Kirk did things, and not the way Spock does them either. It's more of a "leave no man behind" philosophy operating there, and I suspect the higher ups would not approve. So was McCoy advocating a different philosophy, or was he just convinced Kirk was already dead? I must assume the latter. I don't know why, but it appeared as if McCoy assumed Kirk was dead long before they had good reason to do so. I would have never assumed that as long as he still had air left in his spacesuit, but after that, yeah, maybe it was time to call it a day. But not before! So why our good Doctor was so quick to write him off, I don't know.

And we see yet again another Constitution class Starship - always a treat - and yet again, the loss of an entire crew of 430 men and women. May they rest in peace. And they killed each other, to boot. Ouch! If only they drank more while on the job, they might have lived longer.

You can briefly see one or two Enterprise shirt emblems on the Defiant's crew, but mostly all the dead bodies are turned away so you can't see those at all. They worked up a new emblem for The Defiant and used it later in the Star Trek: Enterprise series.

NCC-1764 The U.S. S. Defiant.

Spoiler

Unlike the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701, which was built in the San Francisco Fleet Yards and launched into orbit, component-by-component, the U.S.S. Defiant NCC-1764 was built on or in orbit around the moon's Tranquility Base. And FYI, the Enterprise NCC-1701-D was built in or around the Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards of Mars. It's somewhat interesting we build these massive ships in not just one, but also several places within Sol's system.

I found it a little unfortunate they chose to reuse the name, Defiant, for that little, overpowered, compact, kick-ass warship they tooled around in for the DS9 series.

I liked the ship, Defiant NX-74205, but there's a chance of confusion now when speaking of The Defiant and Star Trek as to which ship you're referring. Oh well. At least this one was a prototype, and the first of an entire class of warship - designed primarily to fight the Borg and not be used as a science vessel or house families. And the fact they got special dispensation to have a cloaking device, as well, was great, so what's not to love? Anyway . . .

I don't know if it's new to this season, or what, but the Enterprise emblem is rather high and on the collar of the females' uniforms - it's somewhat weird. Pay attention to Uhura's and Nurse Chapel's emblems to see what I mean. Maybe they were that way before, and maybe they'll stay that way, but for some reason, they really caught my eye in this episode.

And I'll mention, in case you ever get the chance to see it, a fine older movie (1962) with this ship's namesake, Damn The Defiant with Alec Guinness as captain of the H.M.S. Defiant.

I highly recommend it.

The Side-By-Side Comparison is not available, though I do prefer some of the original shots of the Defiant, mostly the changes are fine. However, here are the FX shots without sound, for some reason.

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I particularly like the scene when Spock orders Sulu to divert power to the ship's shields, but Sulu replies, "But that will reduce our phaser power by 50%." Spock just gives him a cold, silent, sidewise look and INSTANTLY Sulu snaps back into line and does exactly what he was ordered to do.

So, by utilizing ship's power, the Enterprise travels a distance of 2.72 parsecs in scant seconds. That is almost 9 light years and would take about 9 days (at warp 7) to travel that far - maybe 4.5 days at warp 9 (the cube formula rears its ugly head here - ha ha). But here they travel that distance in just seconds. They did mention "entering" interphase space, so that must have been due to the unusual nature of that region of space, or spacetime, as is later evidenced by the fact part of the disruptive effect of that region of space was partially temporal in nature, dragging the Defiant not only into the Mirror, Mirror universe, but also into the past by about one hundred years. Therefore, the Enterprise seems to have undergone a displacement in space and time that manifested itself as traveling 9 light years in a negligible amount of time! I doubt they could do that any time they felt like it, but only when they were in such an unstable region of space, or interspace (whatever that actually is). Perhaps this is the later basis of Transwarp drive, for all we know. Anyway . . .

I absolutely loved the way they made the Star Trek: Enterprise episodes, In A Mirror, Darkly - part 1 and part 2, a prequel to the TOS episode, Mirror, Mirror, and a sequel this TOS episode, The Tholian Web. Very clever, first class Trek stuff there, IMO.

In A Mirror, Darkly - part 1 and part 2 are two of my favorite Star Trek: Enterprise episodes, and this TOS episode is an integral, must-see part of that experience. Sadly, they didn't include those ST: E episodes in this TOS Blu-Ray collection like they did the DS9 Tribble episode.

Of course this is not mere speculation but there is actual TOS canon facts to support the assertion these stories are tied together. Here, Uhura actually sees Captain Kirk in the mirror universe.

I always assumed Uhura was getting dressed for bed, but maybe not. If she was going to bed, I think it's pretty weird to put on a heavy piece of jewelry around her neck, so maybe she had a social engagement, or there's a place like 10-forward to go. I gather Nichols greatly enjoyed the opportunity to do something different, wear something different, and act more, so this was one of her favorite episodes.

The Tholians' web is a force field tractor beam net - a means to capture, contain, and tow a ship. It seems to take time to construct one in TOS, but in Star Trek: Enterprise, they build them in practically no time. But then, they are not the same Tholians. Despite being 100 years in the past, maybe those are more advanced, or maybe those webs aren't as powerful - we just don't know. The Defiant destroyed them easily enough. But back in TOS time, the Enterprise slides out of the net via interspace travel or spatial shifting (yep, Plane Shift) - that clerical spell must have caught those godless Tholians looking. They're not a very friendly race in either universe - although they are, apparently, renowned for their punctuality. One got the impression Spock had heard of them and their reputation before, from what he said, but we can't be sure.

The power supply once again may have been damaged beyond repair, but we won't let that bother us. They must have fixed it later. Again the transporter does something weird – I can't be sure what "locking on to" something means for the transporter. I'd like to think it means you have been scanned and your pattern buffered, and maybe you've even been dematerialized and you are in the buffer, but then the suggestion Kirk may have been dragged with them is odd, unless he means he is in the buffer, but if so, would he still be using up his air, or was it just already gone when they "locked on?" So apparently it can drag you along in it, whatever that means. Maybe the region of space allowed it to do something this strange, or he was in the buffer, but it's just another one of those things to consider when discussing transporter tech.

McCoy is pretty forceful, more so than normal, and he forces Spock on more than one occasion to do things Spock doesn't really want to do, or convince him he is in error. McCoy doesn't usually have the upper hand, but he did here often enough.

And, pay attention everybody, Spock pretty much out right lies to his captain at the end of this episode. Sure, he's more backing up McCoy's lie, but make no mistake, he lies to do it. And for what appears to have been an emotional reason, too. Make of it what you will, but this Vulcan, at least, lies, bluffs, and is not always entirely honest. Is he the exception, or are more Vulcans like that? Considering what we've seen elsewhere of other Vulcans, I'm going to assume the latter, and that most Vulcans deliberately spread that bit of misinformation about their honesty to bolster their sterling reputation in logic and a lack of emotionalism as a matter of emotional pride – another emotion. What a giant con, right? I mean, what do you think, Kirk? Was Spock being honest or telling a whopper? I think it's clear which Kirk would think if he knew the facts.

CON!

I've always given this episode very high marks. I love it when they use the ship and her power, and there's science, conflict, teamwork, humor, a count down clock, and let's not forget a look at another Constitution class starship - an awesome thing in an awesome fleet, and the very best Earth has to offer. We see another alien race on the Federation's boarder, as well, and this time it's not even humanoid! That's pretty cool (I mean it's cool, apart from the obvious heat waves on the viewing screen, indicating the Tholians live in higher temperature environments).

There's a lot to see and a lot to think about, so I rated it 8 out of 10. The new affects help, but not that much. However, the Star Trek: Enterprise episodes of In A Mirror, Darkly part 1 and part 2 add a whole other level of appreciation, including new insight in the Tholians, the Gorns, and a key historical element of the Mirror, Mirror universe and how it got a tremendous boost in technology, giving it the advantage necessary to dominate the other species close to home and strengthen the Tarren Empire. For these stories, when taken together, I might go as high as a 9 out of 10 for the whole story package. But it's an excellent stand-alone episode, too, regardless.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Plato's Stepchildren

Genetically engineered for endless longevity. Will die of infection from a single cut.

So... how does a species that was busy escaping a supernova of their homeworld during roman times wind up having their entire culture based on ancient greece - to the point of even being in physical posession of the personal property of Herodotus?

TOS really did hammer home the idea of Humans being nearly powerless in the face of strange and miraculous beings out there in the universe. Strange, though, that Kirk claims no one has 'the power' where he comes from, when Starfleet has standard ESP tests and ratings (as per WNMHGB).

There is the infamous kiss. It really haunts me that real people would watch a scene of two people being forced basically at gunpoint to be intimate that way and then start screaming bloody murder because people of different skin color 'shouldn't' kiss.

I definitely enjoyed this episode overall, despite it ranging rather close to the Gamsters of Triskelion and Who Mourns for Adonais.

The Platonians themselves are irritatingly substanceless, especially considering their repeated claims of being 'philosophers' and, well, platonian, but that is ultimately a major part of the point. They've been sitting around so long, they've lost all interest in any actual truth seeking and just fallen into cruelty and hedonism.

Alexander is a fantastic character played with great pathos here, possibly one of the best guest stars in the series. Hearing and seeing his eternity of torture at the hands of his one family is really heart-braking - I am so pleased this is another one of those rare moments when I get to enjoy a truly happy ending as Alexander both maintains his integrity and succesfully escapes his people to go live in a much better world. Although I do wish Kirk's mental fight against Parnem had involved making Alexander drop the knife rather than sending him back and forth between them - it rather smacked of using him as a pawn and didn't make sense with Kirk's decision to spare them, either. Although I suppose it could be viewed as just turning the control over Alexander on and off, and it was Alexander himself who kept turning around to head for Parnem - but visually, it didn't feel that way to me.

This is another of those times, though, when I have to question Kirk's ultimate solution. Frankly, I'd consider it near miraculous if the Platonians never went back on their word and dragged in new playthings to control. The only logical reason I could even think for them not to do it would be if they truly understood that it was the environment which provided the Power, and therefore new playthings might eventually receive it, as well - but even that is just incentive to burn through playthings quickly.

It also occurs to me that this is yet another piece of the puzzle in the Federation's hard line stance against genetic engineering. A society engineered from the ground-up to be the 'perfect' undying philosopher race and they were more interested in cruelty and puppet shows than any sort of actual achievement whatsoever.

I do wonder if anyone ever experimented with Kironide away from Platonius. Would it still work to provide people psychokinetic power? Would the Federation even permit experiments? Not that it's a universe game-changer, since it's supposed to be an extremely rare material, anyway.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I am so pleased this is another one of those rare moments when I get to enjoy a truly happy ending as Alexander both maintains his integrity and succesfully escapes his people to go live in a much better world.

Do we ever learn what happened to him in any books?