TOS questions
- Thread starter los2188
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Sounds the same but the meaning is different.
Trekkies (-ers, -ors, -ists, whatever) are supposed to be the intellligent ones. If you want to be it, be it. Just sayin'.
TNG adopted the suggestion made by "Tribbles" writer David Gerrold in his 1973 book The World of Star Trek that any new series should feature an "away team" (he'd used the term "contact team") because the captain of a starship should not be endangering himself by routinely leading landing parties as Kirk did.
Another major difference, of course, was that Picard didn't repeatedly get involved with alien women (or female androids), as Kirk had.
In those two important respects (and probably some others) TNG was simply more sensible - which could be said to work against it as an entertainment, as some here have suggested.
Another major difference, of course, was that Picard didn't repeatedly get involved with alien women (or female androids), as Kirk had.
In those two important respects (and probably some others) TNG was simply more sensible - which could be said to work against it as an entertainment, as some here have suggested.
But you're writing.
except the case of Suzie Plakson...she was hotter looking WITH the makeup. Klingon or Vulcan.
That's only because Suzie's best assets weren't on her face. Voice acting ability excepted.
except the case of Suzie Plakson...she was hotter looking WITH the makeup. Klingon or Vulcan.
Hm. Maybe. I met her in person at a Creation con, and she's pretty much gorgeous.
btw - saw "Devil's Due" last night on BBC America, with a classic example of my above complaint. Marta DuBois, who just exudes sexiness and classic beauty, with goofy frickin' ridges on her forehead. OY!
Given the potential for battle and ultimate demise, I find it highly strange that there would be children on a starship, especially given the oft sensitive nature of their mission. I know conceptually there may have been reasons for it, to me it just seemed silly.
As for the ships counselor on the bridge, situated beside the Captain, it has always seemed to me to be ridiculous and contrived. But then again it was made in the 80's, and they did allow a kid at the wheel when in reality he should have been nowhere near the bridge, no matter how good we ultimately may have felt about him.
Having pressed those views, I liked TNG for the most part. When they were "on", they were really on.
As for the ships counselor on the bridge, situated beside the Captain, it has always seemed to me to be ridiculous and contrived. But then again it was made in the 80's, and they did allow a kid at the wheel when in reality he should have been nowhere near the bridge, no matter how good we ultimately may have felt about him.
Having pressed those views, I liked TNG for the most part. When they were "on", they were really on.
Main difference for me was that Star Trek was great
And The Next Generation was shit
And The Next Generation was shit
There is a school of thought which says that Deanna's role on the crew is actually one of the most important, which is why she gets to sit there with the Captain and the Executive Officer. Look at the number of times Starfleet crews went mad in TOS (Captain Tracey and Commodore Decker being cases that spring immediately to mind, but there were others). The responsibilities of command were such that there was a great emotional turmoil that could engulf the commander, and often times (as with Decker) they could make decisions which were lacking in good judgement. The Counsellor's role is arguably to keep tabs on the Captain's state of mind, and certainly Deanna openly questions Picard on more than a few occasions (sometimes in the Ready Room, sometimes very publically on the bridge). Even as late as Nemesis Picard still declares that a ship's counsellor is a statutory requirement for the effective running of a starfleet vessel, and that just because Troi is running off to the Titan doesn't mean she won't have a replacement.
The role which Troi plays in the character dynamic of TNG was basically played by Doctor McCoy in TOS. But McCoy isn't nominally a bridge officer (although he spends more than enough time hanging around up there -- hasn't he got a job to do in sickbay or something?
), so he isn't theoretically going to always be there beside the Captain in the most high stress situations. Troi is right there all the time.
Main difference for me was the acting, with TNG losing out.
Stewart was great, perhaps the best actor of all the series. Spiner was OK. The rest of them couldn't act their way out of a turbo-lift.
OTOH, Shatner was, well, Shattastic. Nimoy was excellent and more--definitive. Kelley was really good when awake, and more importantly, fun to watch. Doohan was outstanding when given material. As for "the rest", well, Koenig was actually a pretty good actor, and Takei likewise. Nichols was surprisingly strong in her few moments. Majel, well, she was actually better in TNG.
Stewart was great, perhaps the best actor of all the series. Spiner was OK. The rest of them couldn't act their way out of a turbo-lift.
OTOH, Shatner was, well, Shattastic. Nimoy was excellent and more--definitive. Kelley was really good when awake, and more importantly, fun to watch. Doohan was outstanding when given material. As for "the rest", well, Koenig was actually a pretty good actor, and Takei likewise. Nichols was surprisingly strong in her few moments. Majel, well, she was actually better in TNG.
I think you're giving Spiner short shrift, but what I really wanted to comment on was how dead on you are about Doohan. I LOVE early Scotty before they pretty much cut his balls off around the time of his first love interest.
Early on, Doohan plays Scotty with a very authentic (of course) military edge to him. I love it. There a lot of nice little things he does.
re: TNG. The Wesley hate was stupid. Beyond stupid. And once they got him in a real uniform, there was great potential for a relationship between him and Picard as seen in Wesley's final regular ep.
But the real diff is that McCoy-Spock-Kirk are FAMILY. The TNG are professionals. Hell, even Data's funeral has this air of "Shouldn't we be more upset about this than we are? ah well...I never was really close to you all."
Also, at the time (supposedly)* things were very rosy for the Federation. No Romulans, expansion everywhere, Klingons on their side. Life is great!!
*I always viewed the Cardassian War as border conflict, not particularly worthy of the Feds applying the full power of Starfleet.
As pointed out above, one thing I liked in TOS was that we were way, way out on the edge of explored space, at least most of the time. In TNG, they go zipping back to earth for any old reason, and I don't recall much exploration or new contacts (at least in comparing TOS' three seasons to TNG's seven).
Over the years I have tried to like Next Gen in the way I grew up loving Star Trek, but I just cant, its all so wussy, so bloody politically correct, Picard for me is an old starch collared geriatric residing over a failed Shatner lookalike and a complete weirdo counsellor who some say is a sex symbol.
James T Kirk would never have suffered a child piloting the ship, or god forbid, an android who wanted to be a human, although Brent Spiner does impress in the role.
In fact, half the malevolent jokers that Picard encountered would have been sorted by James T just delivering a upward headbutt or a double legged drop kick to the chest.
Ships Captains should be prepared to spill blood, punch and be punched for the good of the ship, and the good of Mankind, thats how in later Trek I could empathise with Archer.
Thank you
This is one of the things that really separates TOS from the rest. The feeling that they're out there in the unknown darkness.
VOY only captured this a few times. Much of the time in TNG/DS9 it felt like they were driving through Europe, wall to wall governments, they knew where they were and who they were going to encounter.
QFT.
Patrick Stewart is a good actor, but I couldn't stand Captain Picard. In fact, I could barely tolerate any of the characters in TNG. Bunch of stiffs, all of them.
And I never thought Marina Sirtis was that hot.
For the record, I enjoy both TOS and TNG...but one thing that always bugged me about TNG was the way it swapped the Klingon and Romulan traits established in TOS. Romulan culture, as portrayed in the TOS episode "Balance of Terror", was as a complex, honor-driven society and it was the Klingons who were hostile, scheming, and warlike. I read an interview years ago with a TNG writer whose name I don't remember who said something along the lines of "we thought it would fun to get creative and swap the traits of the Klingons and Romulans".
I thought it was neither fun, nor creative.
I thought it was neither fun, nor creative.
The original series never returned to present-day Earth for reasons explained in The Making of Star Trek and elsewhere. But all of the original-cast feature films (four of which preceded TNG) included at least one scene on Earth. TNG had to follow suit and become more Earth-centric; the reasons for avoiding it weren't relevant anymore.
But yes, I did enjoy that aspect of the original show. For some reason I've never been able to put my finger on, the most "remote"-seeming episode for me has always been "Return to Tomorrow" - and it's not just the captain's log saying how far out they are, or his "risk is our business" speech. It's something more subtle, involving the new George Duning music and (for all I know) the color of the planet.
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