TOS Photon Torpedo

[blssdwlf]

A torpedo with a physical core (the guidance equipment and propulsion unit) and the energy payload surrounding it would work. It is alot like a ship with highly destructive shields

That idea would even work on the torpedoes seen in the TOS movies too! Good going T'Girl.

 

[Maurice]

If you watch ST2... Later you can see the power level indicator around 1/4-1/3rd power.

Where?

 

[Timo]

There's a "WARP PWR" indicator on one of the panels they zoom into, I believe in Sulu's Helm console half, just below a group of four vertical slide-like indicators for "PHASER CHARGING" status. This "WARP PWR" indicator may be related to how much of that PWR is available to weapons - and it does hover around the 1/3 - 1/4 mark. But it does so before Khan has fired a shot!

...OTOH, whenever we see Chekov's station later in the movie, the four "PHASER CHARGING" and the four similar "PHOTON TORPEDOS" slides seem to be up to max. Although happily, we never see them up close at such times where dialogue would demand that just "a few shots" be available. They probably "were" down low during the latter half of the first fight against Khan. But them being up again in the second fight would seem to void the idea that two badly wounded ships are trading weak punches because they can't do anything worse. Rather, we can probably argue that Khan in the nebula fight was wounded and unable to deliver "full kill" phasers, whereas Kirk simply held back because he was the good guy.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

There's a "WARP PWR" indicator on one of the panels they zoom into, I believe in Sulu's Helm console half, just below a group of four vertical slide-like indicators for "PHASER CHARGING" status. This "WARP PWR" indicator may be related to how much of that PWR is available to weapons - and it does hover around the 1/3 - 1/4 mark. But it does so before Khan has fired a shot!

...OTOH, whenever we see Chekov's station later in the movie, the four "PHASER CHARGING" and the four similar "PHOTON TORPEDOS" slides seem to be up to max. Although happily, we never see them up close at such times where dialogue would demand that just "a few shots" be available. They probably "were" down low during the latter half of the first fight against Khan. But them being up again in the second fight would seem to void the idea that two badly wounded ships are trading weak punches because they can't do anything worse. Rather, we can probably argue that Khan in the nebula fight was wounded and unable to deliver "full kill" phasers, whereas Kirk simply held back because he was the good guy.

Timo Saloniemi

​

The PHASER CHARGING panel cited is on Chekov's station. It's just left of center, left of the FIRE panel. I posted the layout of the panel previously.

I think the sliders represent the power applied to each phaser. The red lights are clearly related to the WARP PWR TRANS(fer), as, in the film, we see three of the four charging lights come on in time with the button presses. The shot cuts away before we see if the fourth button is pushed.

I don't recall seeing anything like a close angle on this panel after the initial surprise attack. We see more of it under Joachim's hands than anywhere else.

 

[Warped9]

Fact: photon torpedoes are seen as discrete objects, traveling at sublight speeds, even in TOS. 'Pure energy' doesn't move at any speed below 186,000 miles per second.

Incorrect. Photon torpedoes were used in warp combat in "The Ultimate Computer" and "Elaan Of Troyius."

 

[Captain Robert April]

The official line is that photon torpedoes are the preferred weapons when engaging in warp speed combat, with phasers being reserved for sublight.

Yeah, yeah, I know, they blew that one lots of times...

 

[blssdwlf]

The official line is that photon torpedoes are the preferred weapons when engaging in warp speed combat, with phasers being reserved for sublight.

Yeah, yeah, I know, they blew that one lots of times...

M-5 and Kirk were "breakin the rules!"

 

[Anticitizen]

Fact: photon torpedoes are seen as discrete objects, traveling at sublight speeds, even in TOS. 'Pure energy' doesn't move at any speed below 186,000 miles per second.

Incorrect. Photon torpedoes were used in warp combat in "The Ultimate Computer" and "Elaan Of Troyius."

Well then, that actually strengthens my point about torpedoes being physical, as one could hardly convince photons to travel at FTL speeds. Now I suppose we must assume photon torpedoes have tiny warp engines?

 

[Timo]

Apparently, the Romulans once managed to convince a cloud of hot plasma to travel at warp, so the argument against launching a packet of photons to warp and calling it a torpedo isn't completely watertight.

Still, our heroes often insist that natural phenomena do not travel at warp. They readily accept machines and lifeforms that travel at warp, though. So whatever a photon torpedo or a Romulan plasma cloud really is, it's likely to be seen as a "machine" by the Feds, rather than as a "phenomenon".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Now I suppose we must assume photon torpedoes have tiny warp engines?

I don't see any way around it.

And small impulse engines, dozen odd maneuvering thrusters, separate fuel tanks, pressurization systems, back up system for same.

Forward navigational deflector, tiny warp core, itty bitty dilithium crystal chamber, microscopic EPS conduits.



.

 

[mtblillie]

I always kind of supposed that if there was a tiny warp system inside a torpedo that the M/AM core would double as the explosive on impact.

On the other hand I heard somewhere that the speed of the torpedo had more to do with the launcher than the internal mechanism, and that the manuverability had more to do with momentum than RCS

 

[Timo]

But the torps don't seem to leave the launcher at particularly high velocity in the general case. And we also see probes depart the launchers at an even slower pace, then supposedly accelerate to significantly higher speeds once off screen (because they rapidly provide data from across interplanetary or even interstellar distances). If probes can accelerate that way, it would make sense to build at least some of those capabilities to one's weapons as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

But the torps don't seem to leave the launcher at particularly high velocity in the general case. And we also see probes depart the launchers at an even slower pace, then supposedly accelerate to significantly higher speeds once off screen (because they rapidly provide data from across interplanetary or even interstellar distances). If probes can accelerate that way, it would make sense to build at least some of those capabilities to one's weapons as well.

In "The Changeling" the torpedo that the Enterprise fires launches at it's normal VFX speed and then quickly hits Nomad at 90,000 km away suggesting that torpedoes do accelerate after traveling a certain distance away.

 

[Timo]

...One might even speculate that this warp or impulse field thing that gives the torpedoes their considerable speed is a bit harmful to the launching ship, so the torps always "swim out" from the launcher at low field strength, and only activate their high speed drive once at a safe distance.

Which sort of negates the idea that the torpedo launchers would principally be accelerators. Rather, they may be simple dispensers, and the "swim-out" or "drop" launch mode is not only something that Starfleet is forced to use in its smaller craft, but indeed the principal technique even for big starships.

Perhaps the supposed barrels of the starship torpedo launchers are there solely for the occasional need for spitting out a torpedo while the ship is at warp? I mean, even warp VFX doesn't show the torps launching at particularly high speeds (unless we assume the VFX is filmed in extreme slow motion, which isn't a bad idea as such) - but perhaps the barrel thing is necessary for providing the torpedo with some sort of a "sabot field" that allows it to clear the ship's warp field before starting the free-flying run to the target?

That is, assuming there are barrels there. We see them in the MSDs, but we don't see them live, not really. The tubes seen in ST2:TWoK, ST6:TUC, or VOY "Future's End", or the cut parts of that "riding with the torpedo" shot in DS9 "Way of the Warrior" seem to be relatively short: they tend to be actual set pieces that are constructed to economy length and aren't elongated with forced perspective, but at most have a starfield effect added to the open end...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

I think the sliders represent the power applied to each phaser. The red lights are clearly related to the WARP PWR TRANS(fer), as, in the film, we see three of the four charging lights come on in time with the button presses. The shot cuts away before we see if the fourth button is pushed.

Each slide could represent one order of magnitude, so hundred, thousand, ten thousand, hundred thousand. The reason the final slide wasn't used was there are power level availible that can actual damage the phaser emitters and are reserved for truly unusual events.

...One might even speculate that this warp or impulse field thing that gives the torpedoes their considerable speed is a bit harmful to the launching ship, so the torps always "swim out" from the launcher at low field strength, and only activate their high speed drive once at a safe distance.

Might wish to avoid overlapping the two warp fields.

 

[blssdwlf]

If you watch ST2... Later you can see the power level indicator around 1/4-1/3rd power.

Where?

I finally got a chance to look again and I was mistaken. D'oh!

The only other time we get to see the Warp Power level indicator was when Joachim opens up on the Enterprise in the very beginning. You can see that there were no lights on for the last 3 levels (left of his hand). When Spock fires at the Reliant, his hand blocks the view of the power level indicator.

My guess is that since all the phaser fire we see in ST2 were at the same strength and if we use Reliant as the benchmark, the phaser fire were all at low power, IMHO

 

[Anticitizen]

That would make sense, because initially Khan wanted to toy with Kirk before killing him outright - 'and when I come around, I intend to deprive you of your life!' - and in the subsequent firefight, both ships were rather damaged and probably couldn't muster full power.

 

[Timo]

...Nice to see that Joachim would be pressing the red button above the blue "Phasers PRT" button when he intended to hit Kirk with the portside phasers! Strange attention to detail there...

Also, the flip switches that allowed Spock to insert the override code seem to have other uses as well. Were those added after TMP, or were they always there (and had some assigned function in that nerdishly overprocessed movie)?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Robert April]

Nick Meyer loves physical switches, and he didn't care for the touchscreens of the TMP bridge set.

In other words, they were added for TWOK.

 

[Vance]

Nick Meyer loves physical switches, and he didn't care for the touchscreens of the TMP bridge set.

In other words, they were added for TWOK.

While probably true, I think in those cases you would WANT the physical toggle switch - it's much more failsafe than a touchscreen.