TOS Photon Torpedo
- Thread starter blssdwlf
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I always suspected the TOS photon torpedos were pure energy when growing up, replaced with mechanical torpedo/probe shells--or at least looked like the tiny poloron torpedoes Quark had to deal with stuck in the Karemma ship IIRC. So my treknological explanation would be that a small amount of anti-matter was used burned with some equal amount aof matter, releasing a packet of contained light.
The torpedo is this "packet" of light (perhaps of a BEC similar to the small lens the Death Star Superlaser might have fired fired multiple beams into
http://www.physorg.com/news158408510.html
This packs the energy of a long laser and or phaser burst into one charge, also explaining its glow. Later torps had a shell and glowed with the case being ignited insome strange way.
The plasma torpedo was more powerful, and formed a smoke ring which also allowed it to be a temporary warp-coil of sorts. More antimatter. Remember, in Balance of Terror the Enterprise was warping at full reverse and the plasma torp was expanding and gaining on them--but weakening. Fire at a ship close enough at warp, and it can become entangled with the warp field of a retreating object and match speeds. Otherwise, a standard torp can be left behind if a ship warps out early enough.
In Best of Both Worlds II, you had the pure "anti-matter spread" with very tiny sparking amounts fired as much as chaff to disguise the rescue attempt and blind sensors.
The torpedo is this "packet" of light (perhaps of a BEC similar to the small lens the Death Star Superlaser might have fired fired multiple beams into
http://www.physorg.com/news158408510.htmlThis packs the energy of a long laser and or phaser burst into one charge, also explaining its glow. Later torps had a shell and glowed with the case being ignited insome strange way.
The plasma torpedo was more powerful, and formed a smoke ring which also allowed it to be a temporary warp-coil of sorts. More antimatter. Remember, in Balance of Terror the Enterprise was warping at full reverse and the plasma torp was expanding and gaining on them--but weakening. Fire at a ship close enough at warp, and it can become entangled with the warp field of a retreating object and match speeds. Otherwise, a standard torp can be left behind if a ship warps out early enough.
In Best of Both Worlds II, you had the pure "anti-matter spread" with very tiny sparking amounts fired as much as chaff to disguise the rescue attempt and blind sensors.
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If I recall the references in TMoST correctly photon torpedoes carry a M/AM charge as the payload and they're capable of firing at FTL speeds. My impression from the show is that they are also quite compact devices as evidenced by what we saw onscreen and hence why they could be launched from the saucer. Makes sense because you don't need much M/AM to make a very big bang. From onscreen evidence it also supports PT are far more powerful than phasers which is reversed in TNG onward (and something I ignore as them getting yet another thing wrong).
My personal thought is that we might just have seen what a PT casing could be like in "Obsession." When they beam down to lure the cloud creature with to it's destruction they have this weird spherical thing surrounded by some elaborate framework and all being carried by an antigrav unit. I don't see why that couldn't be the perfect M/AM casing for their bomb and the framework could have been akin to the warp propulsion apparatus. Hey it isn't expected to go far when deployed and so it doesn't have to be that sophisticated.
And who says the PT has to be anything remotely cylindrical?
Anyway that's my take on it.
My personal thought is that we might just have seen what a PT casing could be like in "Obsession." When they beam down to lure the cloud creature with to it's destruction they have this weird spherical thing surrounded by some elaborate framework and all being carried by an antigrav unit. I don't see why that couldn't be the perfect M/AM casing for their bomb and the framework could have been akin to the warp propulsion apparatus. Hey it isn't expected to go far when deployed and so it doesn't have to be that sophisticated.
And who says the PT has to be anything remotely cylindrical?
Anyway that's my take on it.
I'm currently dealing with references in the Concordance notes about photon torpedoes being a Romulan invention (most likely a holdover from an early draft of "Balance of Terror"), so it's a mixed bag.
I think during TOS' production, they just coined the phrase as an alternative to the phasers and called it day. Just what they actually were probably wasn't thought out, and until they had a story that required it, they weren't in any hurry to do the legwork on it. As for Meyer, his main motivation was his layering on the nautical stuff with a trowel and the torpedo room was his way of having his "roll out the guns, boys" moment. It also set back Starfleet weapons technology about two centuries, but we can always attribute this to the Enterprise being a training vessel at the time and the automated system was pulled to teach the cadets some lesson about teamwork, or something like that.
I think during TOS' production, they just coined the phrase as an alternative to the phasers and called it day. Just what they actually were probably wasn't thought out, and until they had a story that required it, they weren't in any hurry to do the legwork on it. As for Meyer, his main motivation was his layering on the nautical stuff with a trowel and the torpedo room was his way of having his "roll out the guns, boys" moment. It also set back Starfleet weapons technology about two centuries, but we can always attribute this to the Enterprise being a training vessel at the time and the automated system was pulled to teach the cadets some lesson about teamwork, or something like that.
I always saw the prepping the torpedo tubes scene as purely setting up the "burial at sea."
dJE
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
*flashback to childhood moment*
That's a good point, actually. It took me years - literally! - to realize that the mangled Klingon bridge from ST:TMP was supposed to represent the NCC-1701's "torpedo room". I honestly thought that the facility was used only for Starfleet funeral ceremonies during the first bunch of times I saw ST:TWOK at the cinema and then on Betamax (yeah, I'm that old). The fact that Spock's coffin appeared to be fired from between the photorp tubes didn't really help matters either.
SLR
Or the automatic firing mechanism was out of order due to Khan's first attack. And the "manual loading" was a fall back.
As for the grates still being down: Training cruise, no one saw any reason to pull them up, by the time they get around to the photons that they've already got so much on their plates that they're more worried about keeping the ship in one piece and didn't think about it till they were making the run for the nebula.
I don't really see what the fuss is about manual or auto-loading.
We witness an auto loading. No where do we see someone pick up a casing, and run behind it pushing it into the tube while lighting a fuse. There's a loading arm, people supervising it, other people running around. Which makes sense if the main turbolifts aren't working. It's in the dorsal, afterall. Would putting the whole thing behind a wall with only a computer console suit you? The torpedo casings are also for probes, so some work area and space for people to move around makes sense.
As for the grating, we already saw the torpedo room was a prefered place for formal arrival receptions of visiting fleet staff. It wasn't on anyone's agenda to be firing torpedos. Or how about this hypothesis - the torpedo room was setup as a temporary triage center for lower decks patients.
Think about it how you want, but it's a good bit of business on screen.
There's a lot of infrasturcure surrounding the torpedoes in the refit ship, so I'd postulate that the TOS torpedoes were smaller and less powerful. Maybe less range. Maybe not as suited for the new kinds of probe equipment and the space they were projected to require.
We witness an auto loading. No where do we see someone pick up a casing, and run behind it pushing it into the tube while lighting a fuse. There's a loading arm, people supervising it, other people running around. Which makes sense if the main turbolifts aren't working. It's in the dorsal, afterall. Would putting the whole thing behind a wall with only a computer console suit you? The torpedo casings are also for probes, so some work area and space for people to move around makes sense.
As for the grating, we already saw the torpedo room was a prefered place for formal arrival receptions of visiting fleet staff. It wasn't on anyone's agenda to be firing torpedos. Or how about this hypothesis - the torpedo room was setup as a temporary triage center for lower decks patients.
Think about it how you want, but it's a good bit of business on screen.
There's a lot of infrasturcure surrounding the torpedoes in the refit ship, so I'd postulate that the TOS torpedoes were smaller and less powerful. Maybe less range. Maybe not as suited for the new kinds of probe equipment and the space they were projected to require.
It's the one both Decker and Chekov observe after Decker has chosen to use torps instead of phasers and hovers over the shoulder of our favorite Russian. None of the fixed panels, but a line-graphics animation that shows an oval-cross-section cylinder sliding into the middle of a crosshairs of sorts.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0504.jpg
This could have been intended as some sort of a targeting system graphic (note the word "ACQUISITION" there, preceded by "TRACKING"). Also, the apparent three-dimensionality of the graphic could be due to the weird wormhole warping effect that gives similar multiple tails and shadows to all imagery. Yet the coincidence (if it is that) is fascinating: an oval-cross-section cylinder sliding in right when Chekov says torps are being loaded...
In retcon, I'd argue that Chekov has an "integrated" display in front of him where the tracking symbology (crosshairs) is rather informatively joined by loading symbology (sliding torpedo image) to denote the loading process.
Timo Saloniemi
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0504.jpg
This could have been intended as some sort of a targeting system graphic (note the word "ACQUISITION" there, preceded by "TRACKING"). Also, the apparent three-dimensionality of the graphic could be due to the weird wormhole warping effect that gives similar multiple tails and shadows to all imagery. Yet the coincidence (if it is that) is fascinating: an oval-cross-section cylinder sliding in right when Chekov says torps are being loaded...
In retcon, I'd argue that Chekov has an "integrated" display in front of him where the tracking symbology (crosshairs) is rather informatively joined by loading symbology (sliding torpedo image) to denote the loading process.
Timo Saloniemi
^^^Yes, that's the wormhole distortion making it look all dimensional. It's consistent with what we see on other panels in the sequence.
But the oval doesn't appear when he says the torps are being loaded.
As Chekov pushes the sliders forward, he says "Photon torpedoes...armed!" and the eight red squares light up on the TORP LOAD STATUS panel.
After some more countdown, he does the "Tarrrgeting asteroid!" bit and we see an image of the asteroid, and then the reticle appears and that white oval snaps in sound the center and the word ACQUISTITION appears. Ergo, the oval appears to indicate a target lock.
But the oval doesn't appear when he says the torps are being loaded.
As Chekov pushes the sliders forward, he says "Photon torpedoes...armed!" and the eight red squares light up on the TORP LOAD STATUS panel.
After some more countdown, he does the "Tarrrgeting asteroid!" bit and we see an image of the asteroid, and then the reticle appears and that white oval snaps in sound the center and the word ACQUISTITION appears. Ergo, the oval appears to indicate a target lock.
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...Or, in retcon, a simultaneous target lock and loading of recently armed torps. That'd be typical informative HUD stuff: everything in the center of the view, no need to look at other screens, panels or lights for anything.
...Especially not for something as crucial as "Are my torps loaded and ready for launch or merely armed?"!
Timo Saloniemi
...Especially not for something as crucial as "Are my torps loaded and ready for launch or merely armed?"!
Timo Saloniemi
I think I read somewhere that the 'torpedoes' in TMP were supposed to be energy based. That's why the intermix shaft runs right behind (or through) the torpedo area.
Although the later depictions seemed less futuristic, it made more sense because how are you supposed to steer or guide a ball of plasma to a target?
Although the later depictions seemed less futuristic, it made more sense because how are you supposed to steer or guide a ball of plasma to a target?
Plus, most other Trek stuff was almost steampunkishly physical - things that worked on "pure energy" were the trademark of advanced aliens, and separated them from "life as we know it, Jim".
ST:TMP was surprisingly physical as well: it introduced brutal machinery such as docking ports and airlocks, and it turned the previously somewhat magical phaser banks into very physical gun turrets. I find it hard to believe that, had there been a need to show a torpedo up close, a ball of energy would have been shown. And I still maintain that if the dramatic need to show torpedo machinery ever emerged, the only way it could be met would have been through showing a cylinder of some sort and saying "that's our torpedo"...
Timo Saloniemi
ST:TMP was surprisingly physical as well: it introduced brutal machinery such as docking ports and airlocks, and it turned the previously somewhat magical phaser banks into very physical gun turrets. I find it hard to believe that, had there been a need to show a torpedo up close, a ball of energy would have been shown. And I still maintain that if the dramatic need to show torpedo machinery ever emerged, the only way it could be met would have been through showing a cylinder of some sort and saying "that's our torpedo"...
Timo Saloniemi
Yeah, that'd be more the style of the U.S.S. Deathmonger...
Except that's not how it's shown in the film.
Bullshit. It's shown as it's shown. It may be written differently, but that has no bearing on how we may or may not interpret it.
Perhaps the writers and artists didn't think ahead and predict how a sequel created by a different set of people would pan out. But they did end up with something that was completely consistent with the later portrayal of torps in ST2.
It's a wholly separate issue whether the torps in TMP were intended to be physical missiles or balls of energy. What evidence do we have for the latter being in the minds of anybody save perhaps Puttkamer (who didn't write a line for TMP, even if he put some thoughts into Roddenberry's novelization)?
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps the writers and artists didn't think ahead and predict how a sequel created by a different set of people would pan out. But they did end up with something that was completely consistent with the later portrayal of torps in ST2.
It's a wholly separate issue whether the torps in TMP were intended to be physical missiles or balls of energy. What evidence do we have for the latter being in the minds of anybody save perhaps Puttkamer (who didn't write a line for TMP, even if he put some thoughts into Roddenberry's novelization)?
Timo Saloniemi
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