TOS- Overrated?

[horatio83]

Good point. I especially like the quote you chose.

I believe it was mentioned in the film that the So'na were providing Ketricel white to the Dominion (or maybe it was in a deleted scene). Either way, it makes the Federation look very questionable.

This is all what I was getting at about half a dozen pages back. There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument. Picard isn't completely in the wrong, and the Federation isn't completely in the right (although I think the argument is a little more slanted in favor of the Federation, considering that billions of people could be helped if they got their way).

The Federation direly needs allies in the Dominion War but as you pointed out, someone who delivers essential material like ketracel white to the enemy is anything but a reliable ally. In my opinion that's why there is no dilemma at all, cooperation with these thugs merely backfires.

But the Baku had been on that world even before there was a Federation. It wasn't Fed territory, it pre-dated any Fed territories!

Precisely. But some folks here obviously want them to be treated like Indians.
You have been here first? Great for you, we have the bigger clubs so get lost.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Picard is a loser and TNG is way overrated.

 

[xortex]

And Klingons don't have ridges.

 

[horatio83]

Which goes back to making Picard a preaching hypocrite who took umbridge at a slight infraction of the rules by a Kirk like Admiral and went to extroirdinary lengths to stop him and take a cheap shot at at a great man and pulling the thread of his sweater. either way, Picard is a loser and TNG is way overrated.

Why do I get the impression that TNG bashing is negatively correlated, at least in here, with intelligence as well as decency?

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Good point. I especially like the quote you chose.

I believe it was mentioned in the film that the So'na were providing Ketricel white to the Dominion (or maybe it was in a deleted scene). Either way, it makes the Federation look very questionable.

This is all what I was getting at about half a dozen pages back. There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument. Picard isn't completely in the wrong, and the Federation isn't completely in the right (although I think the argument is a little more slanted in favor of the Federation, considering that billions of people could be helped if they got their way).

The Federation direly needs allies in the Dominion War but as you pointed out, someone who delivers essential material like ketracel white to the enemy is anything but a reliable ally. In my opinion that's why there is no dilemma at all, cooperation with these thugs merely backfires.

But the Baku had been on that world even before there was a Federation. It wasn't Fed territory, it pre-dated any Fed territories!

Precisely. But some folks here obviously want them to be treated like Indians.
You have been here first? Great for you, we have the bigger clubs so get lost.

The more we discuss this, the more I feel that Picard was in the right. The So'na weren't trustworthy and considering that they were aiding the Dominion it should have been obvious that they had a hidden agenda.

If anything, this 6 hour discussion has at least given me more appreciation for Picard's actions in INS, and more appreciation for INS as a whole. Thanks for standing by your convictions, horatio83, and for offering a different viewpoint.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

And Klingons don't have ridges.

Cool Klingons do.

 

[xortex]

Good intentions are meaningless. Carl Marx had good intentions. Decency is also defined by what you don't do. Your inactions may be more revealing than your principles.

 

[horatio83]

Good point. I especially like the quote you chose.

I believe it was mentioned in the film that the So'na were providing Ketricel white to the Dominion (or maybe it was in a deleted scene). Either way, it makes the Federation look very questionable.

This is all what I was getting at about half a dozen pages back. There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument. Picard isn't completely in the wrong, and the Federation isn't completely in the right (although I think the argument is a little more slanted in favor of the Federation, considering that billions of people could be helped if they got their way).

The Federation direly needs allies in the Dominion War but as you pointed out, someone who delivers essential material like ketracel white to the enemy is anything but a reliable ally. In my opinion that's why there is no dilemma at all, cooperation with these thugs merely backfires.

But the Baku had been on that world even before there was a Federation. It wasn't Fed territory, it pre-dated any Fed territories!

Precisely. But some folks here obviously want them to be treated like Indians.
You have been here first? Great for you, we have the bigger clubs so get lost.

The more we discuss this, the more I feel that Picard was in the right. The So'na weren't trustworthy and considering that they were aiding the Dominion it should have been obvious that they had a hidden agenda.

If anything, this 6 hour discussion has at least given me more appreciation for Picard's actions in INS, and more appreciation for INS as a whole. Thanks for standing by your convictions, horatio83, and for offering a different viewpoint.

Thanks Screed, I also enjoyed our discussion.

To come back to your original topic, I basically experienced Trek similarly as you did and until today TOS is still my least favourite series (which is partly caused by the horrible German dubbing of TOS, I could only stand it in the English original). Yet I like the series more and more over time (which is kind of natural, if you don't like a series it can only grow on you) and while it should not be sacrosanct and closed to criticism one should perhaps treat TOS as a classic even if one doesn't particularly like it.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

one should perhaps treat TOS as a classic even if one doesn't particularly like it.

Fair enough. I have a lot of appreciation for TOS because it was innovative and it spawned a lot of terrific sci fi shows and movies. For that alone I think it deserves praise, even if it's not something that I particularly enjoy.

 

[Anwar]

And Klingons don't have ridges.

TOS gave them the ridges, stupido!

 

[xortex]

It's like milk. Many people prefer martinis instead but there's nothing like a cold glass of milk with cookies. Tos achievements are impossible to overrate, like if you think the Mona Lisa is nothing but a women's portrait your plumber can paint or a thousand other artists can manufacture. Some people like rap (BSG) and some people like Brahms (TOS). It's that simple and that complex. Some people hate Beethoven or Styravinsky especially during his day and prefer Debussy or kid rock. to them they are much better. Beethoven was scathingly criticised in his day by the so called experts and fellow composers (basically his enemies who made it all about personalities and not music of course). The problem was that it was too good and an impossible standard to live up to. Does anyone remember the act following the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show? Or the child actress that followed Shirley Temple? Everything is hated at first especially if it's different or god forbid great.

 

[xortex]

And Klingons don't have ridges.

TOS gave them the ridges, stupido!

The movies did, not the original series and don't call me stupido.

 

[Anwar]

And the movies are still TOS, despite what the "purists" say.

Seriously, it's almost as bad as folks who blame Berman for Spock being brought back to life...

 

[xortex]

You're blaming purists for being retroactive when a purist would never blame Berman for anything related to TOS which would be giving him credit for something he doesn't deserve. It's Just the opposite.

 

[Anwar]

You're blaming purists for being retroactive when a purist would never blame Berman for anything related to TOS

You'd be surprised.

 

[xortex]

So you're blaming me for something you got backwards. Alright. I'm guilty. You got it backwards.

 

[Anwar]

No, I'm saying you underestimate how nutty your fellows fans can be. Though your trolling suggests otherwise, .

 

[xortex]

You got that reversed too.

 

[7thsealord]

You're blaming purists for being retroactive when a purist would never blame Berman for anything related to TOS which would be giving him credit for something he doesn't deserve. It's Just the opposite.

Huh?

 

[Anwar]

It's xortex, don't expect clarity or logic.