TOS Klingons or new?

[smalltalk66]

It's not so much the "honor" thing that bugs folks as much as the fact that the newer series ran the whole "you have no honor" thing into the friggin' ground.

Seriously, admit it--how many times did ya listen to Worf/some unnamed Klingon say "honor" before you wanted to slap the sh*t outta them through the screen?

I liked TNG's treatment of them, at first , yet...after a while, I longed for the simpler days of Kang and Koloth like a crackhead.

 

[USS Mariner]

I like the "Kitumbians." Those are enemies worthy of the Federation's time.

They also would have made a good Middle East analogue to boot.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

I always felt the Cardassians were more like TOS Klingons than TNG Klingons were. If I could magically re-write Star Trek, i'd replace the Cardassian storylines in TNG and DS9 with Klingons; the un-easy peace, Obrien's prejudice, the occupation of Bajor, could work just as well with the Klingons.

 

[igrokbok]

Give me the Klingons I love to hate. Devious. scheming, stab you in the back Klingons of old are the ONLY Klingons in my book.

 

[AC84]

TOS Klingons looked bad ass and more cool then the modern one-dimensional comical Klingons. Those Klingons often made you wonder how they became a technological superpower when every TNG Klingon's only goal is to be a warrior. The TOS Klingons were more human and although the TNG Klingons held honor very close to heart, moreso than the ones from the 23rd century, you can't say the TOS Klingons were completely without honor. If you do, you probably didn't see Kang in "Day of the Dove".

However, even though the TOS Klingons had a bad ass appearance and weren't as silly--The TNG Klingons did look more alien, which is what they should have looked like.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

one of the few things ENT got right in my opinion, was that they managed to effectivly blend the TNG and TOS klingons in a way that worked. I thought the make-up and costuming for ENT's Klingons was the best of any series.

 

[Orintho]

Mister_Atoz said:
one of the few things ENT got right in my opinion, was that they managed to effectivly blend the TNG and TOS klingons in a way that worked. I thought the make-up and costuming for ENT's Klingons was the best of any series.

And Ent would have done far, far better to have featured Klingons more rather than that stupid time war.

 

[DarKush]

I liked the TNG Klingons more than the TOS Klingons. There just weren't enough TOS shows with Klingons on them to give me a real feel for them. But TNG, followed by DS9 and VOY, did flesh out the Klingon culture, and I liked the Viking-Samauri take on them.

It is true that the word 'honor' got tossed around too much. I also agree that the Klingons were weakened, by misuse and overuse, esp. by the time of DS9. "Way of the Warrior" really made the Klingons look soft, as did the brief S4 Klingon-Federation war. But there was enough good episodes with Worf, Martok, Kor, and Gowron to balance out a good deal of the declawing.

To be fair, I see the TOS movies as being something of a bridge in the evolution of the Klingons. Kruge, from Star Trek 3, seems like the prototype for the 24th century Klingons.


I think ENT should've avoided the Klingons all together. They did a decent job with them in "The Expanse", and later in S4. But I didn't like the lack of a disastrous first contact in "Broken Bow"-I was hoping for something along the lines of B5's "In the Beginning". "Judgment" wasn't a bad idea, but I thought Rura Penthe seemed like a resort compared to its depiction in Star Trek 6, and I also thought Archer escaped way too easily. I also thought they had some of the most boring and wretched Klingon eps-"Sleeping Dogs" was a waste of time, and then "Marauder" was atrocious.

 

[ncc-1017-e]

I love Christopher Plumers charater Chang in TUC!

 

[Orintho]

ncc-1017-e said:
I love Christopher Plumers charater Chang in TUC!

Chang was cool - the subtle way he oozed his hostility.

 

[Cutter John]

That's kinda the problem with peacetime. Everybody has to play nice. I expect if the Federation were still in a cold war with the Empire, the Klingons would be more like their devious old TOS selves.

 

[sithspawn4]

I prefer the rich nature of the Klingons TNG-current. I have nothing aginst the TOS Klingons. I like them, too. I liked the ENT Klingon arc that blended them together.

 

[Good Will Riker]

I actually prefer neither, because the TOS TV Klingons were under-developed, the TOS film Klingons came-off silly (ie Christopher Lloyd as a Klingon? ), and the development of the TNG/DS9 Klingons were sheer overkill (like the way they also did with time travel, holodeck stories, Q, and the Borg).

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Lloyd was great, the only thing that kept TSFS from being utter crap.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

[revjim]oooookey dooookey[/revjim}

 

[DarKush]

Good Will Riker said:
I actually prefer neither, because the TOS TV Klingons were under-developed, the TOS film Klingons came-off silly (ie Christopher Lloyd as a Klingon? ), and the development of the TNG/DS9 Klingons were sheer overkill (like the way they also did with time travel, holodeck stories, Q, and the Borg).

I didn't buy Lloyd's performance as Kruge, until I watched TSFS years after watching it the first time. Lloyd wasn't that bad in hindsight. Kruge was cunning, ruthless, and tough. He was a good matchup for Kirk.

I think he did a good job. Though I think Christopher Plummer's Chang was the best TOS movie Klingon adversary for Kirk. The worst had to be Klaa, though the TFF novelization handled him far better.

I do agree that DS9 did go a little Klingon crazy, esp. and VOY and ENT didn't bring much else fresh to the Klingons either. Though I did enjoy the ENT S4 explanation of the foreheads.

 

[Sulu_Love_child]

The old Klingons...
The look, the uniforms and the attitude.
The mustaches and sashes.

 

[Proximity_Phaser]

Old school, back slapping Kang Klingons. That's the ticket.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

jayrath said:Forgive me, but I think I prefer my Klingons as pirates, as privateers, as oily Fu Manchu villains with, yes, a streak of nobility, but without all the extended Samurai "warrior honor" and all that

When did they act as pirates in TOS? I thought the "warrior honour" you despise was present in most TOS encounters with Klingons, as was the back stabbing Wrong forum? What's wrong with a little exposition behind the race as well as individuals?

 

[Kegek]

Let me just say I've always preferred my Romulans Roman. I don't call them elf-Romans for nothing.

Brtual Strudel said:
Yeah, me too. Moore really dropped the ball on this one, giving us a dumbed down version of the Ford Klingons.

To be fair to Moore, the identification of Klingons as honourable warriors wasn't his - it was firmly cemented in season one's "Heart of Glory" and season two's "A Matter of Honor", both written before he came on in season three. Moore simply followed this idea to its natural overkill, to the point even he recognized it was overkill. From "Tacking Into The Wind", the last script he wrote about Klingons:

Ezri: That's very sweet of him... of both of you.
Worf: Sweet?
Ezri: Not a very Klingon word, is it?
Worf: No.
Ezri: It's very... honorable.
Worf: Better. But a little obvious.

Yep, a little obvious, as you might feel after having it banged over your head for eleven seasons worth of Star Trek...

Personally, I like both Klingons well enough. In TOS, they're great villains, even if I feel the Romulans are better. In TNG and DS9, Worf is a compelling character, one of the best in each series.

I do remember feeling a little puzzled about how obviously different the authoritarian Klingons are from their later counterparts, but I wouldn't overstate it. It was Kor who said: "It would have been glorious!" at the end of "Errand of Mercy" referring to war with the Federation, a sentiment many of his TNG-era comrades would share.